Propane/Butane Safety?

[CoachOnTheRoad]

Newbie here, launching in my mini-van in a few weeks. 

How do you store bottles of propane and butane safely inside a van? Are they safe to keep inside the van, specifically if you're off on a hike or sightseeing and the van is closed up in hot weather? Seems like the heat inside the closed van would exceed safety limits.

Thanks,

Mary Ellen

 

[rvpopeye]

Welcome aboard coach !
You'll probably be ok , Just for peace of mind how about keeping them in a cooler on the floor when it gets real hot?

 

[John61CT]

Really they should be in a sealed compartment vented at the bottom only to the outside.

There is a safety pressure release feature, so with full bottles when things get hot you do get gas released into the living space.

Most people don't worry, real explosions are pretty rare, But

There are state laws / regs, insurance can get out of covering an accident, but most of all. . .

Boom bad!

 

[TrainChaser]

Here is some safety info from Eastern Propane Co.  https://eastern.com/customer-information-center/propane-safety-tips/checking-your-propane-gas-tank

Generally speaking:
* Try to avoid storing the containers where the temps will exceed 120ºF. esp in closed areas, where leaking propane will accumulate.
* If temps exceed 120ºF, pressure builds up inside the cylinder, which may cause the pressure relief valve to release propane.
* If the pressure relief valve starts releasing propane, the accumulated gas could cause a fire or explosion, esp if it's in an enclosed space.
* Propane gas is heavier than air, and will accumulate on the floor (unless there's something to stir it up).
* If you have to store propane cylinders in your van, pay attention when you open the door and see if you notice any odor.  Opening a slider door is probably more likely to cause a spark/explosion than opening a regular door.
* If you do smell the odor, stop whatever else you're doing and open the van and let the gas escape.  
* When the gas has dissipated, find the source of the problem and deal with it.
* Don't approach your van (with propane inside) with a lit cigarette.  
* Actually, this would be a good time to stop smoking, altogether.  The savings alone will pay for a LOT of propane.  Currently, the average price of one pack of cigarettes is about $5.50, which is perilously close to the price of TWO 1-LB TANKS OF PROPANE.

 

[user 37446]

Good reminder about the differences, hepcat. 

Ventilation seems to be the key. Always have some method of air exchange when you are leaving the cylinders inside and its hot.

Depending on the vehicle, storing them underneath the frame in some metal enclosure would be good, or perhaps a bumper mount, but that's impractical for most. 

Bob Wells has said that he has kept 20 pounders for many years inside with no problems, however I'd be confident that he doesn't exceed 120 degrees in his vehicle and also vents the space.

 

[John61CT]

Even if you personally met and witnessed 50,000 people who did this and never had a problem, means nothing about the safety of the practice.

Transporting bottles to be filled then returned to a B&S home is one thing, camping trip is another, but full-timing to me means do the right thing as part of your build.

How hard is it to make and seal a plywood box and vent it to outside?

Do what you like of course, but IMO at least put it on the list of things to do. . .

 

[highdesertranger]

ah let's see. is butane lighter then air?

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/butane#section=Top

no. highdesertranger

 

[John61CT]

That would be the Hydrogen offgassed by lead batteries, especially FLA at the end of the charge cycle.

Also explosive, and have their own sparks!

 

[hepcat]

ah let's see.  is butane lighter then air?

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/butane#section=Top

no.  highdesertranger

I stand corrected.  Not only is it NOT lighter than air... it's even heavier than propane.   It's methane that's lighter than air.

http://www.tecnicontrol.pt/en/wiki/item.html?id=51-gas-detection

Sorry for the misinformation.  Speaking of not doing one's own research, I was told years ago that boat manufacturers were switching to butane stoves from alcohol because it was lighter than air and wouldn't collect in the bilge like propane.  Now I know that was a bunch of hooie. 

Again my apologies... and can a mod just delete my erroneous post above please?

Thanks!

 

[rvpopeye]

That boat article was probably written (or paid for) by a butane stove mfg !
Skuh kuh kuh kuh kuh

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Since we live in Southern Arizona, temps of 120° inside the vehicle are par for the course. Our medical home (due to health insurance requirements) is here, so we can't just avoid the desert in the summer. We have two floor vents, along with the front windows, that we open when the van is parked, below the open roof vent with the fan on. We plan on keeping the 1lb propane cylinders right next to the vents. Hopefully that will be be good enough.
Ted

 

[tx2sturgis]

If its a white cargo van with very few windows, and they are tinted, and especially if it's insulated and ventilated, most likely you wont have any problems with a few precautions. In 3 years mine has been OK with propane stored inside.

Try to park so that the mid-day sun is not steaming into the windshield, and use a cardboard or plastic sun guard propped up against the glass...this would help.

If you have a dark-colored, un-insulated van with several clear windows and you leave it in full sun for many hours with no ventilation, then if I were you, I would not store any flammable, pressurized fuel inside, period.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Tx2,
That's my van! Have you been spying on me?
Ted

 

[John61CT]

Re 1#ers, don't refill the disposable ones, that size is now available in properly certified refillable now, Manchester and Flame King.

 

[CoachOnTheRoad]

Thanks for all the input everyone. Gives me a better understanding of what I'm dealing with. I'm in a mini-van, so not sure how I'd go about building a box that would vent to the outside. If anyone's done it in a mini-van please share! 

The other option is just to put them outside if I'm going to be out of the van for any length of time. If someone wants to steal a few bottles of propane, they probably need them more than I do then lol!

Mary Ellen

 

[tx2sturgis]

Coach, does your mini-van have a receiver hitch on the back bumper? Or can you add one?

You could put a small cargo rack back there, some of them fold up when not in use, and then you could have a plastic tote (some of them lock) and drop the bottles in there when parked...it would keep them fairly secure.

If the plastic tote had blankets/pillows and/or extra clothing in there, the bottles would stay sort of 'insulated' for several hours, especially if the van was parked so that the tote was not in full sun all day.

Leaving full propane bottles loose on the ground would be inviting problems.

 

[CoachOnTheRoad]

Coach, does your mini-van have a receiver hitch on the back bumper? Or can you add one?

You could put a small cargo rack back there, some of them fold up when not in use, and then you could have a plastic tote (some of them lock) and drop the bottles in there when parked...it would keep them fairly secure.

If the plastic tote had blankets/pillows and/or extra clothing in there, the bottles would stay sort of 'insulated' for several hours, especially if the van was parked so that the tote was not in full sun all day.

Leaving full propane bottles loose on the ground would be inviting problems.

 

[CoachOnTheRoad]

That's a great idea. I don't have the receiver hitch, but I'd toyed around with the idea of the cargo rack in the back. Now it gives me a reason to reconsider.

Thanks!

 

[John61CT]

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=14754

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