Prius AC in a Van, and other ideas

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vanvanvanvan123

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I had asked is the Prius air conditioning system ( heat and cool ) the ONLY System that can feasibly operate as one sleeps?
Why can't this battery system be incorporated into a Van?

The Prius has three big strikes aganst it, aside from price
-Curtains at night, to me are a dead giveaway for security, neighbors, thieves, cops to annoy you or worse!
-insufficient personal space aka room, if like me, you spend a lot of time in your room.
-every noise both outside car and INSIDE ( think about snoring at 300AM ) car are audible.. aka no potential for partial sound proofing.

Soundproofing and Extra Insulation go hand in hand with my goal for Soundproofing ( I would like to play an instrument in van- did I mention, I play music for a living! )
I cannot tolerate 80 degrees in a van even 75 is uncomfortable-
Therefore my idea of THICK ilayers of insulation will preserve the low and high temps- depending on winter or summer - while also provide wonderful relief from noise pollution. I like the sound of silence!
One could park in a noisy area and not be too disturbed if insulation was sealed and thick.
Problem then is O2 and CO2. CO2 is heavier than air.. which suggests I be higher up in the van when sleeping or relaxing in the van.
Any thoughts on condensation, death by lack of O2 while sleeping, and the possibility of the Prius batteries thermostatic temp control being transferred to a van?

Then there is question of cargo van extended or not extended.

Thanks for reading my novel ideas, and "novel" too!
 
The Prius heat/AC system still runs the gas motor. It just uses the hybrid battery system to allow the gas motor to cycle on and off. The same thing could be accomplished with a large battery that can charge fast, and a automatic way to cycle a standard generator.
 
Any type of A/C that operated intermittently would probably kill stealth.
 
This leaves me with either finding 120 AC and paying for it and a safe place to park... I would LOVE to park in a garage that either gives access to electircity or is temperature control- unfortunately living in a garage is generally not supported. I mean living IN the van in a stealth manner, WHILE IN the garage.
Does anyone know of any source for this. in San Diego.. paying a garage owner to safely live in my van in his garage, or failing that, on his long drive way, where a hidden AC cable would not be detectable??

Other option is thick insulation.. but with little or no ventilation. This creates the CO2 problem.
If I start out with an extended Ford Cargo Van... that's a lot of cubic feet of air.. by using thick insulation for sound proofing and preserving the cool temperature ( I achieve with gas engines AC unit ) for eg 6 hours, does that seem dangerous as far as losing consciousness?
 
You are up against and trying to solve the same problems we all have.

First you need to realize that the Prius has no strikes against it.

One mans trash is another mans treasure.
1. Curtains. Some people come up with ways to cover the windows along with choosing good places to park. It has to be learned. There is no rule book.
2. Space. Its an individual thing. Some people are even claustrophobic, most are not. The last thoughts in the Prius owners mind as she falls asleep could be of absolute joy as she has just cheaply traveled far and is even able to have the a/c running with out hearing a generator blaring away.
3. Noise. Its not just a Prius, its a van, an RV or a tent. Everyone is different. I have lived within 500 feet or so of a railroad track and at first it woke me up but after awhile I never knew it was there. I'm often wake up in my RV because the environment is always different.
If you want an established or given amount of noise every night you would most likely find it in a house or apartment or you need to be staying on BLM or forest land where you can distance yourself from others.

So with that said we still need to figure your situation out.
1. You don't want to be hot
2. I'm assuming you want to be warm in the winter.
3. It sounds like you want it to be quiet or reasonably so.
4. You want to play music.
5. You asked if the Prius system is the only one.

1. If you want a/c it is not practical to use batteries. Yes, it could be done but you don't have that much money and the system would be so heavy that its impossible to move. If you want a/c, you will need to be plugged in or have a portable generator.
How, where, who and the legalities of where to park and plug in are open for your research. Probably tough to accomplish.
Running a generator will work but it brings up several issues. Where can you park and run it as needed. It will need to be a Honda or Yamaha so as to be quiet. It will be stolen if you are not there to watch it or you will wake up hot one night and notice that you have found the quietness you like because someone else figured they needed it more than you. They didn't steal it, they reownered it because its ok to do that.

You cant insulate your way around this. If it was designed like a freezer or refrigerator, yes you could take it down to 40 degrees and shut it off and hours later it would still be cool but you cant get it down that low.
a
All a/c systems will only cool down X amount. If its 90 outside it will get you car down into the low 70's or high 60's but it will never get to 40.
Yes if you did accomplish this freezer/frig design you do need to ventilate it. You have to have fresh air. If it was air tight you would die. That's why kids used to die in refrigerators. Old designs had a latching handle that couldn't be opened from the inside. Kids playing would get in and couldn't get out. People responsibly started taking the doors off when they put them out for the trash man.

2. Heating is easier but still an issue. There are basically 2 types of heaters. Vented and non vented. Houses, RV heaters etc are vented. The exhaust/burn process is vented outside. The hot gasses move through a maze of tubing and vent outside. The heat that comes off those pipes is blown into the living area. Catalytic type heaters (Buddy is one brand) are unventilated. They burn very clean as far as the burn process is concerned but the fumes are still an issue for some as everyone has different sensitivities. They are not vent less because they need oxygen for combustion. They have low oxygen sensors to shut them off if the oxygen level drops too low. They are not intended to be used when sleeping. I and other people do use them while sleeping and we accept the risk. I have the windows open for oxygen so I don't really worry about it. I plan on going to a vented cat heater but for now I use a buddy.

The next problem with cat heaters is they don't have a thermostat so the amount you open the windows determines the inside temperature. Since the heater runs all the time at say 3000 btu you then have to open the windows enough so that it doesn't get too hot. I know, it sucks. If you say well I'll just start the heater a few times each night. OK that's fine but you should be doing it outside. I noticed people saying they dont like the start up propane in the air. That's probably because they are lighting it indoors. Read the manual.

This is the closest answer I have found for heating.

http://ventedcatheater.com/2.html
The only problem with it is that it uses 5 amps when the thermostat calls heat and the ignition coil glows. After it's running the exhaust fan uses half an amp to run the exhaust blower. Most of the heat stays inside because of its high efficiency so the exhaust pipe can be routed several ways because it uses pvc pipe and the exhaust fan blows the exhaust gas out.

3. Sound. Well, that is something that comes with the lifestyle. You need to adapt. That means get used to it.

4. Play music. You can play all you want but will it give you away if you are where you dont belong?
5. The Prius system. The Prius is a revolutionary car and a unique drive system that is not something that can just be used in another vehicle. Its too much to explain here.

You will notice that one of the core things that is utilized in this lifestyle is the ability to move from area to area as the seasons change. It's easier to save a dollar buy cutting out something wasteful or truly not needed than it is to keep earning more dollars. So its easier to move than to adapt to temperature extremes.

So this isn't for everyone and you need to build your system with a check list of things you can and cant accept. You may find that it wont work for you. It's overwhelming at times so you need to make informed non emotional decisions. Is there a plan "B"? What happens if the transmission goes out or the engine blows? What happens if you cant park at X place? I don't know what you have done so far but you may even pack up and practice camping or "staying" somewhere.

Good luck to you, you're not alone.
 
My goodness, such generosity...big thank you!

A desire to live in a van is not my overarching desire to prove anything, or beat the system or be different, or be free, nope...rather this, my concern is SURVIVAL in the temperate town I have chosen, San Diego County.
(I have private reasons for choosing San Diego.) I also work here, but work has been slowing down, while rent unbelievably continues to, unfettered by slowing wages, sky rocket.
When I moved here in 1992 rent in a lower income city here was $550 for a TWO bedroom TWO bathroom place.
2014 $550 will get you a SHARED bathroom, a small room and kitchen privileges!!! This is immoral, or insane, or both. When will this skyrocketing stop?

Out of all you said, I wanted to comment on the refrigerator/ suffocation aspect, if that is ok? An extended van has a heck of a lot more air in it than a kitchen fridge; not remotely comparable. I would be airing it out regularly! Are you reasonably certain it is a bad idea? It seems to solve most problems!
Question, is there a way to turn CO2 into O2? I am sure there must be, question is, is it cheap, mess free, condensation free!
The Prius is tempting because of the reliabilty of Toyota, longevity, AC, stealth ( assuming curtains can be properly created) But noise, the possibility of be noticed, the need to be very quiet.. it seems weird!
 
vanvanvanvan123 said:
An extended van has a heck of a lot more air in it than a kitchen fridge; not remotely comparable. I would be airing it out regularly! Are you reasonably certain it is a bad idea? It seems to solve most problems!

If you "air it out regularly",I doubt you will be able to achieve your goal of retaining a cool temperature inside the van for many hours. You also need to realize you would have to drive every day in the summer to operate the A/C enough to cool it down in the first place. That means lots of gas expense.
 
vanvanvanvan123,

Sounds like you are wishing for the same thing I am, a mass-produced hybrid full size or mini van that operates just like the Prius. In fact they do exist, just not sold here in the US, sadly.

As far as completely sealing up the rig, over the years we've found it's best to just always leave a vent open, even in the dead of winter with temperatures far below 0. This keeps the air flowing/refreshing as well as moisture build up down. Even if you have enough O2 in the van, the moisture will build up and you WILL have mold, it is only a matter of time.

Is there a way to turn CO2 into O2? Absolutely! It even conforms to your other requirements, cheap, mess free, condensation free!! It's called PLANTS! :)
 
Devil is in details, eh! I would have to let fresh air in every 8 hours minimum. I have sat in cars whose air conditioners were weak ( my present car ) and I have sat in cars whose AC was amazingly powerful, and would freeze you in a short time. So if the AC in the as yet unpurchased van, was of the powerful variety, I would presumably not have to burn much gas at all to cool it back down to 60 degrees or so.
Are modern AC automobile units restricted with some envirnmental BS that makes newer AC units less effective?
In the past, I have seen wide differences in AC power. Are there presently 2010 to present, very effective AC units in vans ( GMC< CHEVY, DODGE, etc ) ?
 
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I understand what you are saying about the size of the van compared to my example of a frig. You are up against what everyone is up against. I try to offer what I can not to discourage you. I know you didn't say I am but just want to try and help you through the process as best we can and not see you waste money going down the wrong path. None of us are 100 % right but everything so its all the ideas put together. I lived in a truck camper and the heat was an issue. Covered the windows to keep the sun out, ran a ceiling vent fan etc. It was hot.

I understand what you are saying about the rent. I also hear people talking about other price increases at places like McD's or whatever. It isn't McD or the landlord just jumping up and saying well I'm going to raise prices today, its a dilution of our money by the privately held corporation called the federal reserve. As they print more dollars and inject it into our system, all the others dollars become worth less.

The price of the rent and the hamburger are not actually going up, the value of the dollar is going down. Its why gold and silver are up. Its not Democrats or the Republicans. Its all of them. It wouldn't matter if all of our wages and income went up at the same rate but they are not. Its like a hidden tax where the wealth of the citizens is stolen. Given a pretty name called inflation.
I know that doesn't help cool your van off any but it is relevant to the situation many are in right now or more will be in as the situation worsens.
You will figure it out, keep learning, save money, have a plan "B".
 
vanvanvanvan123 said:
Other option is thick insulation.. but with little or no ventilation. This creates the CO2 problem.
If I start out with an extended Ford Cargo Van... that's a lot of cubic feet of air.. by using thick insulation for sound proofing and preserving the cool temperature ( I achieve with gas engines AC unit ) for eg 6 hours, does that seem dangerous as far as losing consciousness?

On the TnTT (teardrops and tiny travel trailers) forum, many people have built teardrop type trailers out of foam. Cheap and fairly easy, but they can also be deadly because they are airtight. There is more than one story over there of people building them without enough vents and barely getting out before suffocating. I know a van is larger than most TTs, but this just doesn't seem like a good idea.
 
San Diego, especially close to the coast, has probably the most benign weather in the continental USA. Which is part of the reason it is so freaking crowded, and so freaking expensive.
I am less than a mile from the Pacific as the crow flies and as hot as it can ever get here, I can sleep at high noon in my White Van, but this is with plenty of ventilation.

I cannot even imagine trying to minimize ventilation, and your idea of super insulation is simply not practical.

On the coldest of winter nights here, high 30's, I block off my roof exhaust and the air inside gets incredibly stale and headaches can start so I only partially block this vent. This is with imperfect door seals, and my conversion van windows are not perfectly sealed either.

Achieving A fully sealed van is not only nearly impossible, if one were to accomplish it I doubt they'd live very long. If you were able to get it to 40f inside, and have it perfectly sealed, the heat from your body and respiration would quickly warm the interior.

Everything is a compromise, always. Accept this fact, and draw a line as to what is acceptable. But the desire to live in a soundproof airtight superinsulated rolling box in which you can hide yourself from the populace speaks volumes.

Not that I don't understand the motives. It is just unhealthy to pursue in so many ways
 
SternWake ( up call lol ) Do you offer cut rates on therapy sessions? lol
Before I give my motives... I welcome you tell to me the volumes you see; here on the forum that has Stealth parking as one of it's tenets. lol I am referring to my desire to indeed live in a soundproof insulated ( like people with homes have ) undetected by criminals cops neighbors kids, space.
I am not offended, but non facetiously amused. So tell me more!!
 
I have a friend who is an extremely light sleeper. He is going to school for a post-grad degree so he live on campus and must have stealth and QUIET!!

He learned everything he could about soundproofing and built a little "nearly soundproof" room inside his Ford 1 ton cargo van. As a side-benefit, it offers quite a lot of thermal insulation as well as audio insulation. He put in some venting for fresh air.

It can be done, it isn't easy.

I was going to write a blog post on it but it is too complicated and applies to too few people.
Bob
 
Hi Bob.. I did not mean to scare SternAwake Away! I am a pro musician, so silence in both directions is important... my playing quietly, an instrument ought not be barred from my experience, and sound proofing seems to be the way.
For one thing I do NOT want to advertise to ANYONE that I have an instrument in my vehicle.
For another, it is inconsiderate of anyone outside the van.. I do not assume that my practicing is always welcome..on the other hand it is non negotiable.. I will practice daily in a van.
Driving to where there are no people defeats the purpose because driving burns fuel.
Plus I like the sound of silence!
Plus it adds comfort hopefully without the side benefit of asphyxiation !
I don't see why 5 hours of being in a large sealed room the size of an extended van will suffocate me.
It comes down to those small details, I should think. Such as CO2 goes down to bottom of the van.. so I would be encouraged to be much higher towards the ceiling in the Van esp for sleep purposes.

I have a pro carpenter and he workds as a contractor also, to help me.
He was concerned with no ventitlation. So this is the big key.

Bob If there is anyway to learn more of your friends approach to this insulated sound proof van I would be grateful.
 
If you do the math, the average human breathes out around 450L of CO2 per day. That is, in 24 hours, you would breath out ~15.9 cubic feet of CO2. An average cargo van has somewhere around 250 cubic feet of space, or more.

I don't think you would have any problem with CO2 from just you breathing overnight. However, if you have a catalytic heater that also introduces CO2 and CO while consuming O2, you will likely have a problem.

Your biggest problem with sealing up the van is moisture. When you exhale, your breath is wet. This does and WILL form on all the walls/windows/ceiling/floor of the van, it's just a fact of life. Unless you want mold and mildew eventually growing in all the places you can and can't see, you have to have vent the space.
 
Thank you AimlessWanderKind Very useful info :)
SO two problems - one for the winter and heaters that give off deadly odorless CO and suffocating CO2, yuck.. the other for moisture and awful mold mildew... double yuck.
Out of curiosity- I do not doubt your knowledge nor assertions- why in my room do I not see any mold mildew or moisture; it is often without benefit of open windows?

My idea was let in fresh air 4 times per( 6x4=24 ) day. Would this prevent the much feared by me, mildew mold?
 
Houses are constructed differently than a metal van (or metal skinned / fiberglass skinned RVs). The wood, insulation, drywall, etc. does indeed breathe, the house is not completely sealed. In fact, you may also notice that houses are not even waterproof (which vehicles are closer to being, but not 100%), they are constructed in such a manor to just shed water. You may also notice that basements are a little "damper" feeling. The ground surrounding the majority of the walls breathes a lot less than just atmosphere surrounding upstairs walls.

Even a small 10'x10' room is quite a bit larger than a van, further diluting moisture.

If you were to live in a single walled metal shed all sealed up, I would expect no different results from the van.

Lastly, you can't just open the doors for 2 minutes to "refresh the air". It would take probably 30-60 minutes minimum to dry and air out (wind depending).
 
Very well explained; I recognize the ring of truth here.. thank you. Van living is looking less likely! Based on what I have revealed in this thread... does ANY solution come up? I understand it's a balancing act between priorities.
Thanks for helping
 
I'm certainly not suggesting giving up on vandwelling! The simple solution for air/moisture is to open a vent anytime you're in the van hanging out/sleeping/etc.

Practicing musical instruments is trickier. I don't know if you mentioned what instrument you have, but there are some options for certain types. If you have an electric guitar, I know there are "micro amps.". Essentially it is an amplifier, but you plug headphones into it instead of a speaker, so only you can hear the amplified guitar playing. The strumming is fairly quiet to bystanders. If you have something else like a wind instrument or percussion, perhaps you could just practice outside a strip mall or some place downtown where street performers gather. Then people wouldn't mind the noise, and may even drop a few bucks in your hat!
 
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