Power for Laptop

[duckwonder]

Hi All.  I'm currently downsizing to go full time and I'm concerned about being ready to go when I leave. 

Here's what I'm working with:
Class B RV, 50w of solar with no inverter, Onan 2800 gas generator, a prepaid phone plan that is not unlimited and offers no hotspot and is not Verizon, a medical condition that will not allow me to physically lift more that 25 pounds (that for sure rules out most solar portable kits and I'm not happy with flex panel prices, durability, and solar installation costs, nor do I have time to learn how to diy just yet, but definitely want to).

Here's what I want when there's money a long, long time away from now:
A different rig, maybe a chevy express, a real battery bank of AGMs, as much solar as will then fit on the roof rack that does not drill into the roof, with room and power for an a/c (I know, it's funny to me too), a fantastic fan maybe off the back, and room for a weboost somewhere.  And no gas generator at all.  As you can see even the dream is sketchy in its planning.

For now, I need to survive.  I need to be able to charge and use my laptop in longer term boondocking situations, which will be 95 percent of my time out there.

I will be using the generator daily, I have no choice.  I will be restricting usage to once or twice a day and using higher powered items during those times.  I will mostly be solo and parked away from other campers as frequently as possible.    I will be using the laptop constantly.  I invested in a powerbank (marketed as a solar generator) for the express purpose of running my laptop and only my laptop.  I'm having some trouble with it and may need to return it.  If I do, that will be the only budget I have left to solve these issues.  

Any suggestions on how to keep the laptop powered for tons of use under these current conditions?

 

[lenny flank]

For the price of many "solar generators", you may very well be able to get a 200w panel, a 100ah AGM battery, a controller and inverter, and have it all professionally installed for you.

 

[duckwonder]

For the price of many "solar generators", you may very well be able to get a 200w panel, a 100ah AGM battery, a controller and inverter, and have it all professionally installed for you.

There's no room on the rig.

 

[Trebor English]

Do you have a "car charger" for the laptop?  That makes it so the laptop input is 12 volts from the battery.  Having both, the original 120 volt and the 12 volt, means you can use whatever is available at the moment.  An inverter then is not necessary.  

Your class B RV probably has a 12 volt house battery.  It can have one added if necessary.  With that the Onan 120 volts can power a battery charger / converter (you probably have one) to refill the battery when the 50 watt solar panel is not enough.  This will give you time to figure out the solar details.  The "powerbank (marketed as a solar generator)" is much more expensive than a flooded lead acid house battery.  The house battery also works your lights and water pump.

 

[Riverman]

If you like buying gas, there is a little Sportsman 800-watt generator that will charge your batteries, run the laptop and way more. I love mine and won't go on a trip without it. It barely sips gas too.

Sams Club has it and eBay also:

https://www.samsclub.com/sams/1000w...-inverter/prod20640113.ip?xid=plp:product:1:4

 

[jimindenver]

Send back the useless "solar generator" and buy one or two of these.

Dokio folding 200 watt solar matt

They are light weight and simple to hook up.

BTW I have been working on getting the site up and haven't had time to respond to all of the traffic coming in. I will soon.

 

[duckwonder]

Do you have a "car charger" for the laptop?  That makes it so the laptop input is 12 volts from the battery.  Having both, the original 120 volt and the 12 volt, means you can use whatever is available at the moment.  An inverter then is not necessary.  

Your class B RV probably has a 12 volt house battery.  It can have one added if necessary.  With that the Onan 120 volts can power a battery charger / converter (you probably have one) to refill the battery when the 50 watt solar panel is not enough.  This will give you time to figure out the solar details.  The "powerbank (marketed as a solar generator)" is much more expensive than a flooded lead acid house battery.  The house battery also works your lights and water pump.

I don't have a car charger for the laptop but will absolutely look into that, thank you.  The problem is the 12v plug in the dash works great but runs off the starting battery.  I have a 12v plug in the back but it does not work.  I do have 2 "house" batteries, regular 12v lead acid but I would not call them deep cycle.  Each battery is about 65aH and they are located about 4-5 feet from each other with the rear axle inbetween.  Best the previous owner could do.  It's the design of the rig that does not allow for much wiggle room.  I do have a converter, at least its listed on the house fuse panel.  I do have a very old charger that is outside and with no display.  I use a voltmeter daily.  Not the time to update the charger but will be one of the first things I will do if I can down the road.  I can work all the standard lower-powered options on the rig including lights and water pump with the 50w, but its a question of for how long, so I use battery operated led lights mostly and only use the water pump only for showers.  I love your statement about "this will give you time to figure out the solar details,"  that's exactly what I need.  Having said all that, if my laptop manufacturer makes a car charger, how can I use the house battery to charge it?  I really need that port fixed in the back.  Not currently in the budget.  Is there a different way to charge it off the house battery if I can get my hands on a 12v charger?  Also, I guess I could charge it when driving off the starting battery 12v port but then how do I plug in my phone.  If I get a thing that has 3 ports on the front and plugs into the cig lighter could I always charge by laptop and the phone and run the phone?  That would be a good survival thing.  But I think it will massively limit the time on the laptop I will get as a result if I'm only driving about once per week.  I'm not trying to be a naysayer I swear, I'm just trying to understand and do something that will work in my rig.  This is the best suggestion I've heard, I'm just worried about usage time for the laptop.

 

[frater secessus]

Class B RV, 50w of solar with no inverter, Onan 2800 gas generator, a prepaid phone plan that is not unlimited and offers no hotspot and is not Verizon, a medical condition that will not allow me to physically lift more that 25 pounds (that for sure rules out most solar portable kits and I'm not happy with flex panel prices, durability, and solar installation costs, nor do I have time to learn how to diy just yet, but definitely want to).
...
Any suggestions on how to keep the laptop powered for tons of use under these current conditions?

If it were me I'd give serious thought to keeping the Class B, adding a lithium battery bank, no inverter, and running the laptop of a 12v car charger.  You would be running the generator a little but it would be really effective at jamming power into the lithium.  The 50w panel up top might effectively power the laptop during the daytime.

The easiest (and therefore most expensive) way to do it would be to drop one or two battleborn packs into the existing battery bay. $900 each, but cheaper in the longer run and bettery in almost every way than a ton of AGM.   Because of the fast charge rates you might be fine with just one.  Battleborn is ok with folks starting with one and adding another in parallel if one doesn't do the trick. You'd know in a week or so anyhow.

If you are wanted to learn DIY you could build your own LiFePO4 pack 1.5x the capacity of the battleborn for the same money.  Then you'd definitely be set.

At some point you'd run into a 100w panel that is the same rough footprint as the old 50w and you'd be rockin'. 

Please tell us more about the Class B, and if you have other reasons for wanting to be rid of it.  

and power for an a/c (I know, it's funny to me too),

You already have the easiest and least expensive power for a/c:  the generator. The only thing easier is an extension cord to a 110v outlet.

It's unlikely you'll run A/C off the kind of solar panels you could fit on an Express.  It's possible, but generally requires more tradeoffs and money than the average bear is willing to commit to the project.    In particular, it would likely involve ginormous tilting solar arrays that would exceed your lifting limit to deploy.

 

[duckwonder]

Send back the useless "solar generator" and buy one or two of these.

Dokio folding 200 watt solar matt

They are light weight and simple to hook up.

BTW I have been working on getting the site up and haven't had time to respond to all of the traffic coming in. I will soon.

Thank you Jim.  Looks likes a winner.  Dang.  Really looks like a winner.  Thanks Jim.

 

[duckwonder]

If it were me I'd give serious thought to keeping the Class B, adding a lithium battery bank, no inverter, and running the laptop of a 12v car charger.  You would be running the generator a little but it would be really effective at jamming power into the lithium.  The 50w panel up top might effectively power the laptop during the daytime.

The easiest (and therefore most expensive) way to do it would be to drop one or two battleborn packs into the existing battery bay. $900 each, but cheaper in the longer run and bettery in almost every way than a ton of AGM.   Because of the fast charge rates you might be fine with just one.  Battleborn is ok with folks starting with one and adding another in parallel if one doesn't do the trick. You'd know in a week or so anyhow.

If you are wanted to learn DIY you could build your own LiFePO4 pack 1.5x the capacity of the battleborn for the same money.  Then you'd definitely be set.

At some point you'd run into a 100w panel that is the same rough footprint as the old 50w and you'd be rockin'. 

Please tell us more about the Class B, and if you have other reasons for wanting to be rid of it.  



You already have the easiest and least expensive power for a/c:  the generator. The only thing easier is an extension cord to a 110v outlet.

It's unlikely you'll run A/C off the kind of solar panels you could fit on an Express.  It's possible, but generally requires more tradeoffs and money than the average bear is willing to commit to the project.    In particular, it would likely involve ginormous tilting solar arrays that would exceed your lifting limit to deploy.

Some good info in here for me to consider for sure, thank you!

 

[jonyjoe303]

I use about about 16 amps of power between the sun goes down and 11 pm using my larger 14 inch I5 laptop and running some led lights. Using a smaller 11 inch netbook I might use around 10 amps during the same time. 

Depending on your budget goal zero 400 lithium 39ah (700 dollars) thats out of the question, but you can get good deals on ebay on lifepo4 thats comparable to goal zero but you might have to add your own connectors. Thats the way to go, they charge fast and will outlast any lead acid, and they basically behave like a lead acid. This is one I been looking at but myself I already have almost 400ah of lithium but you can't have too much. Price is 182 dollars. Not bad for 12 volt lifepo4 that is almost ready to use. You can charge with any 12 volt charger.

"12V 13.2V 36.8AH 486WH LITHIUM LIFEPO4 26650 64 POWERWALL RV DIY EV BATTERY ION" weight 12 pounds

I wouldn't rely on your start battery to power the laptop, they will drain quickly. And a small house battery(of unkown condition) will also be brought to its needs after a while unless you charge it fully every day. You need to run your generator for 6 to 8 hours to fully charge the lead acid, they get a quick surface charge in a hour or 2 but they need that long absorption to get fully charge (something only solar can do barely).

The beauty of a large enough lifepo4 is it will run your laptop all day and the generator will charge it in one hour or at least get it to 90 percent. The powerbank you have is probably one of the li-ion 11.1 volt ones that take 8 hours to charge. Those will work if large enough and you have the time to charge them everyday.

Everything revolves around the batteries and the ability to fast charge them. Without a large solar panel, you going to rely on your generator and run as little as possible.



 

 

[B and C]

IIWM, I would get the plug in the back fixed and maybe add another one or two. These should work off the house bank. Get the 12V charger for your laptop. Run the generator when the batteries get low enough to accept bulk until absorption. Could use one of the little 700W generators with a battery charger plugged in if you don't want to run the Onan. That is why I have one. Mine has run most of the day on a gallon of gas.

I have two of the flex panels I use in series as my portable panels. As long as they are not mistreated, they work well. I store mine face to face with one of the shipping padded sheets between them.

What solar charge controller do you have?

Returning the "solar generator" will give you some money to work with.

Somebody else will have to do the math on that 50W panel to see if it will power the laptop.

 

[duckwonder]

IIWM, I would get the plug in the back fixed and maybe add another one or two.  These should work off the house bank.  Get the 12V charger for your laptop.  Run the generator when the batteries get low enough to accept bulk until absorption.  Could use one of the little 700W generators with a battery charger plugged in if you don't want to run the Onan.  That is why I have one.  Mine has run most of the day on a gallon of gas.

I have two of the flex panels I use in series as my portable panels.  As long as they are not mistreated, they work well.  I store mine face to face with one of the shipping padded sheets between them.

What solar charge controller do you have?

Returning the "solar generator" will give you some money to work with.

Somebody else will have to do the math on that 50W panel to see if it will power the laptop.

When I can fix that port I didn't think of adding any, that's a great idea if I can, thank you.  My house batteries don't act like real deep cycle batteries and the "accept bulk until absorption" thing, which I do not Yet have a full understanding about, does not apply to my current setup.  No room on the rig for a second gas genny for sure but I'm glad that's worked out for you.  Good to hear your flex panels are working well.  My charge controller has been identified before but I don't remember what it is.  At the time I finally found out, nearly everyone said mine are still available on ebay for like $10 or something, it's really not anything I'd recommend to anyone these days.  Yep, I'm going to return the solar generator, though I can't say that without re-naming it, the power pack, I pray the company will take it back.  I couldn't get it up to full charge on it's first time in the wall.  I'm going with Jim in Denver's suggestions.  Thanks to all, I mean it!

 

[Trebor English]

According to your voltmeter what is the voltage of the rear batteries?  

Some cigarette lighter sockets include a bit of lead wire like a fuse.  If the socket gets too hot from the cigarette lighter it melts away opening the circuit.  Some cigarette lighter sockets short and blow the fuse when overheated.  With your volt meter check for 12 volts on the back of the socket.  If there is 12 volts it is a burned out first type socket.  If there's no 12 volts check the fuse.  

The sockets have bad contact with the plug making resistance and heat followed by no power.  There are 12 volt power port sockets that won't work an actual cigarette lighter and don't have the protection.  

You can get a cord with 3 sockets at one end and a cigarette lighter plug at the other end.  You can cut the plug off and connect the cord direct to the battery or the wires to the broken rear socket.  Before use check the polarity.  The center should be plus 12.  If it's negative, reverse the wires.  Really you want a 20 amp fuse or less.

The triple sockets make it so you can use a rubber band to hold things plugged in.  

There are better ways but this might give you access to the house batteries you already have until you can make it better.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Since I have actually seen the system you have to work with, I would tap into the bottom of that shunt controller in your fridge vent, on the battery side, and run a set of two wires (fused positive of course) in thru the bottom of the fridge or cabinets, where you can hopefully feed the wires thru, and attach a cigarette lighter port or ports inside. Someone handy with electrical work could do this for you at any good RV facility or with help from fellow van-dwellers.

Then the laptop will be powered from your two house batteries. The 50 watt panel on your roof will only be able to keep up with laptop use during good overhead sunlight, maybe just barely. But during run-time of the Onan, for microwave or whatever, it will replenish the batteries to some degree. Experimentation will lead you to an average time to run the genset...possibly an hour or two.

A portable panel and controller as recommended by others above could be hooked up to your rear-mounted battery...and will help a bunch if you can aim it to the sun a couple of times per day.

And to confirm for others, she has zero extra space at the first coach battery and a little more space at the second battery, where one was added by the previous owner. Also, this shunt controiller has no display or indicator inside the coach, it's got one red light and it's mounted inside the exterior fridge vent.

 

[jimindenver]

If I remember right Ducks house batteries are not starting batteries but they are not 6 volts either. They are marine and somewhat abused by now. Anything else will likely become abused too unless the power in situation is cured. There really isn't much room on the roof to work with as it is a contoured roof with all of the bits and pieces that go along with a class B. Running a small A/C off of solar isn't really a option either and as mentioned lifting side mounted panels takes more effort than is allowed. Outside of that it is hard to work on a rig over the internet.

 

[duckwonder]

Thanks to all of you. I do have an update. In order to try to compensate for not having an inverter and not having live outlets when boondocking, I thought a solar generator with an inverter and lithium battery inside may be extremely helpful to me weighing 20 pounds and not needing to be installed, and that was the last thing I bought before money ran out. I need to fill you in on some details. I bought an Inergy Kodiak Solar Generator. It's not that it's useless at all, quite the opposite. It would have been enough for me to power a laptop giving me much needed hours on it. The marketing is a little misleading for all of these solar generators on the market but the product is very interesting to me. There are 3 ways to charge it (solar, 12v car charger, or 110 with either the supplied cable or a 12v "quick" car charger while driving. I had not tested the unit in the van because the company cared enough when I called to have me check the fuse And to identify if it is soft wired or not. They require a 20a or higher fuse when using their car charge cable. Mine is 25 (I had to find that out! For newbie's like me, a quick aside. If you get uncomfortable trying to remove the cover plate off the fuse panel in the front or under the dash, there are diagrams online. Since I'm in an RV I had to search by the chassis and year, so I found 2004 Ford E350, and there it was. I found the location of the fuse, its amperage and what that fuse shares with, in my case the 12v house socket in the back which was not working so I wasn't worried about it. The company was ok with that though I believe they Really like specifically 20 amps but the main concern was soft wiring so that's a trip to the mechanic for me, and I could not do that right now so I agreed not to use it in the vehicle until I could do that. Just a note for folks like the many features on the solar generator). That being said, and having different options available to me here on the forum, I called to return the solar generator, a hazmat item with an interesting return procedure. I MUST say this was the SECOND one I returned to them in a two week period, that's why I was so worried. I had ordered two by mistake and you want to talk credit card disaster? This was it. Had ordered one off Ebay and one off Amazon because I thought I ordered from Amazon and could find the order so tried again. Had forgotten about Ebay. Anyway, they took the first one back no problem. Top notch team I worked with unraveling that ebay seller and amazon seller fiasco. On this second one, I let them know about the charging problem from the wall. It could be an issue in the unit or a defective cable. Why am I sharing this with you?? Because the company, INERGY, took it back when I told them the truth that I need the money. Otherwise it would have been me sending back the cable first and so forth. What happens when you return a hazmat item to Inergy is they receive it, break it down, troubleshoot it, rebuild it and resell it as a refurbished unit. They don't like to do that but they do it because they value their customers. My new friend in tech support and I got along so well that he is going to buy mine himself when it gets back there because he's a camper, has one himself and with mine, he'll double his power. Also they have a 30 day return policy and a 1 year warranty so I was covered anyway. Didn't you know campers are some of the nicest folks in the world? I'm calling the BBB to give that company an A+! I am so grateful to them. And ok, all that being said, I'm going to be ok. The CRVL Forum has my back and it feels great!! I'm kind of a loner type so that's a big deal to me. I am so impatient in trying to learn my own systems in a Class B because my brain in not wired right but the help that I have found here in the last year or so has Changed me. I haven't always been around. I could not use a laptop on this last trip and had trouble navigating tapatalk on my phone to the point that I just had to put it down and focus on being on the road. Now I'm downsizing so I may not be on for awhile, again. I value this place. I miss the people. Special thanks to Tx2Sturgis and Jimindenver for all of their Tremendous help!!! Sorry I missed Jaime's van build. Glad to know he's out there and knows what it feels like to hit a pothole in Baja. Good to know Matt's up in Gorgeous Washington State. Might both these folks be at RTR in 2019? Hmmm. Might some Youtubers that I'm come to so love and appreciate be there too? Hmmm. The idea of RTR scares me to death, I ain't gonna lie. So many people freaks me out. Good to know Bob has a new spot for next year. May have to conquer my fears and GO!

I CAN'T BELIEVE I AM GOING FULL TIME!!! I am INSPIRED by you!! Good morning, and have a nice day.

 

[DLTooley]

Being able to measure your input and output is important. The Victron 75/15 Chargers is the easiest way to do this. Some sort of portable solar would be good if you don’t have roof space. I’d skip the ago batteries. Given all that’s included, including charger the lithium ‘generators’ are definitely becoming an option for smaller, simpler, setups.

Which did you get and how many watt hours does it have?

 

[duckwonder]

Being able to measure your input and output is important. The Victron 75/15 Chargers is the easiest way to do this.  Some sort of portable solar would be good if you don’t have roof space. I’d skip the ago batteries. Given all that’s included, including charger the lithium ‘generators’ are definitely becoming an option for smaller, simpler, setups.

Which did you get and how many watt hours does it have?

Thank you.  This is why I like the idea of the Dokia portable mat.  I didn't know there was a mat like that at 200w.  The controller on it may not be the best quality but I look at it like my current controller for the lead acid batteries.  My voltmeter is becoming my friend.  I'm learning about how much draw comes out of them by isolating things and then checking.  The hydrometer too will help me keep the batteries in a decent balance, when I need acid, I will add it.  I am carrying 1 jug of distilled water.  My old batteries were not just a little abused, I killed them a couple of times because I did not know anything about battery maintenance yet and hence the opportunity to learn.  I've replaced them with the same battery type but new, so now I've been taking good care of them.  I watch the voltmeter and try not to get too low.  If I see that happening, I go to redundant systems or run the genny if I have to.  Mostly I try to restrict my power usage as much as I can.  It's been good for me as a newbie, and I'm relieved to find out it is possible to function with older solar equipment with the addition of a few new tools.  It's an adventure and sometimes I get really excited to find just the right product for me.  Everyone's input in the forum is appreciated.  The new thing I was trying was an Inergy Kodiak 1100w.  Plenty of potential laptop power.  Life happened and I returned the product so it's benefits have not been tested by me, but the experience with the company was beyond fantastic.  And I am grateful to have an uncomplicated solution to power my laptop.  I'll probably need help with that too, but I am grateful I can come here to find out.

 

[frater secessus]

The idea of RTR scares me to death, I ain't gonna lie.  So many people freaks me out.

There's no rule that says one has to stay for the whole RTR. 

I got there a few days early and met folks while it was still sparse.  By the morning of the 7th official day of the RTR I could feel myself getting freaked out.   I told folks I was starting to feel anxious and everyone camped near me knew the feeling I was talking about. 

What I'm trying to say is yes, it's a lot of people.  But they are excellent people.  There's no way I could have been around that many "normal" people for that long.