Philosophical vs Psychological

[RoamerRV428]

I know absolutely you never suggested that van dwelling forums can't include a Class B or tent Just me making a point!

I think you are 'finding you' but in doing so you kinda gotta throw some other's under the bus in labeling them as not fitting into your finding how you do fit in and IN ALL truth, do you need that? Some do absolutely, need to understand their niche in a way that is important to them, I get it, but we don't ever have to take out other's doing their thing to make our life fit into a box as we want...……..just saying.....not meaning to be harsh etc.....but finding ourselves has to be an inward journey in a way, not one worrying about how other's fit into boxes.

just chatting it out LOL not being combative at all cause all we can do is live and learn and change in life....see what goes down for each of us.

 

[B and C]

If you say you are a vandweller, then your a vandweller no matter the rig. If you say you're a nomad, you're a nomad. Just labels or boxes. A lot of times I feel like I am a square peg trying to fit a round hole.

 

[PODebbie]

This is called cheaprvliving. I did it the old fashioned way. I have a pension. I do want to travel. Bob Wells and all the fine folk on this web site and YouTube have allowed me to travel cheaply. I used to sleep in my car and sleep in a tent for vacations. Then my husband had many surgeries and can not get down on the floor of a tent. We have to use cots, now we need bigger tents, it doesn't all fit in the car. But by watching the videos, and this website, I can travel with my husband cheaply. We can afford to go on long 6 month vacations. If we had to buy a truck and travel trailer and pay for camping each night, we would have to sell our home. We don't want to sell our home. It is close to my grand kids. So, I am grateful for cheaprvliving. I am not a nomad, but I will be living in my van for many months and for many years. Some people can't wait to escape their houses. But I am excited to find a way to afford my house and travel.

 

[owl]

OP, I don't think you can have one without the other. They are not mutually exclusive. Aristotle said "Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom." Seems to me you are on a path to knowing yourself.

 

[Firebuild]

I wonder if you took 50 people and paid them $500 to restrict Internet use to one stop @ wifi for 30 minutes a week...
Then you took another 50 people and gave them a free jetpack with unlimited data...which would be more at peace after 90 days on the road??
(My guess is...the former. Strongly.)
Anyone else??

Well, you might be right if you're only giving the $500 to that group. $500 buys some peace, and I'm assuming this peace is self-reported, so the cash probably buys a good report.  

I'll take the jetpack for conenction to other humans, access to employment, and many other reasons. The internet is the flying car we never got, but it goes more places than the flying car ever could have. I'm grateful to have it, personally, and don't see it as an obstacle to peace. I've got my own mind for that.

 

[owl]

I've got my own mind for that

Don't we all

 

[jim solo]

The reason I started this thread was to run an experiment on myself, to help me discover the answer to a difficulty I have had all my life. Social Communications, as you all might have been aware of with me in this thread. I was experimenting on MYSELF, not anyone here. You all have been helpful more than you might think. All I can do now is thank you all and explain myself further.


I believe I have been suffering with case of, mild Asperger syndrome. (Read about it here) Look at the link if you would like, I’m not ashamed of it. I’ve guessed most of my life that something was a little bit out of wack up there. I’m no danger to myself or anyone around me, it seems to have many good attributes that come along with it. The bad attributes I have not experienced and hope I never will.
Well maybe one, I can be a real asshole when I put my mind to it. Didn't mean to be one here.


Now you all can cuss me, I have to get back to my project of finishing this RV rebuild so I can get out there where I can live a life I want too. It always helps to figure things out, so you can work around them.

 

[RoamerRV428]

not a darn person on this thread is gonna cuss ya out literally.

a walk thru life on how it happens/circumstances/abilities or disabilities and more will never be a bad thing for someone to have to handle in my eyes!

we all have troubles. we all have situations. we all have happy, middle life, tough grief, medical and more issues. not one person is immune to trouble no matter who you are. Humans are so varied it is crazy and we all must just get thru it all best we can....coping mechanisms that suit us personally.

all cool to me on this thread

 

[Dingfelder]

I've known Aspergers people. They can be very nice, and even very successful in many if not most of the ordinary ways. It's a difficulty but no death sentence. The folks I've known apologized to me a lot, because they tended to get out of line sometimes, not recognizing social cues ... but eventually not only recognizing that something went wrong, but exactly hot it went wrong. They were perfectly smart, and compassionate ... it just took them some extra time to coordinate things socially.

This thread is perfectly fine IMO. I do think that people tend to like to attach labels to things - and people! -- and try to sort out their thoughts and feelings on the basis of those labels instead of staring reality right straight in the face and trying to sort out their thoughts on the basis of that reality rather than their comfortable preconceptions.

And that's bad -- basing our estimate or others (or ourselves) on preconceptions instead of on what's right before us, right here right now.

But it's human. And then you come back again, and try to do and understand things better.

We could probably all of us do with a little less labeling of others, and leaping to conclusions, especially if used to criticize or condemn others. All the moreso considering that none of us are all that perfect ourselves. The ability to hold our final judgments and childish tendencies toward snark, cynicism, defensiveness, or reprisal at bay for a while, until we consider the facts the best we possibly can after getting our emotions under control, is one of the finest qualities we can have or work toward one day, hopefully, having. What a gawdawful ordeal to have to put ourselves through instead of just acting like jerks! It's almost unbearable.

But it might edge us just a little bit further toward the only kind of person we would ever want to be.

 

[ByeBye]

Follow your heart, be kind to all, including yourself, peel your onion. The rest will fall into place, damn the labels.

"Foremost, know thyself" & "This above all: to thine own self be true"

 

[Dingfelder]

And it did. A society with in a society. I thought it would be different, guess I don't fit.

Nobody fits, Jim.  Even if they convince themselves for a while. 

The question is always what do you do after, and if that makes the world and your life a better place or worse.

 

[RoamerRV428]

So true Ding. Nobody truly fits. We make it appear to work but in the end we all stand alone truly.

 

[Dan 1]

I got into this thinking that this romantic idea that Nomadic life would be less complicated than societies norms. It has it's Philosophical outlook to a better life. The Psychological part is the tough area.
     I am a Damn Yankee that grew up in a city that had a population of 750,000 people at that time. At age 14, I moved to a small town in the south with a population of 2100 folks. That was a tremendous change for a kid. But I loved it. This area became my home up to the present day. This town has grown to near 5000 people.
     Now it feels like it is time to move on to new adventures. Life is an adventure isn't it ? I have thought that this was a truth. As I have gotten older, life has become a battle to survive in what we call society in today's world. Nomadic life appeals to me for this reason, ' if I could have been born 150 years ago '. I would have lived the life of this adventure, sooner.
    My RV is my covered wagon, in a sense. Right now my horses are Mel nourished from lack of feed, I'll need time to get my horses back to good heath. The financial burden as in (Mel nourished horses) is greater than I thought it would be. I will take care of my horses in do time. It will delay my adventure a bit, but I'll get there.
     I am not begging for help, I'll feed my own horses. This is a well formed community forum, with many knowledgeable people participating. Advice is why I am here and to help when I can. How many of you have gone through this faze of, Philosophical  vs  Psychological. Just a little thanks ahead of time for all the advice.

Hello, "jim solo". You have produced a lot of "food for Thought" in this post and topic string. Your comparison of "Philosophical" and "Psychological" (in your seeming quest to understand the relationship between the two concepts) is very interesting to me.


You begin this closer look at these with: " [font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]I got into this thinking that this romantic idea that Nomadic life would be less complicated than societies norms.[/font]" 

I think that many of Us tend to view a lifestyle that is not Our own as more exciting, fun, interesting, or less complicated....hence "romantic". I know I certainly did from Childhood on to now. Later in Life We learn that every Lifestyle has its complexities and problems. When We begin to see this, We suddenly focus on the possible reward for entering the other Lifestyle.

When it comes to Nomadism, I think Bob Wells and Many Others are very right in declaring that the big reward of Nomadism is being closer to Nature. Then the Nomad is secondly rewarded with being able (usually) to change their location in order to achieve a variety of Natural Environments. These two rewards make the risk of "Skilled Nomadism" well worth the taking. 

Then add the reward of leaving behind some of the problems of "Settled Life" and the change becomes more attractive. It becomes a goal.

I really believe that the Modern Nomadic Lifestyle does Free adventurous and Nature Loving Individuals from many of the irritations and aggravations that come with the American Capitalist Culture... as this is today. 

"Rubber Tire Freedom" offers challenge and reward and learning. It is an art form. An art form of trial and error and best choices, but which also gives the wonderful opportunity to learn from others who, in varying degrees and levels, have mastered this art form.

The whole phenomena of "Modern Rubber Tire Nomadism" is an Evolving area of Life and Living and this can make Many of Us Happy...as We Evolve with it. The Philosophical can help a lot with Our Psychological Response to Our involvement with Nomadism.

 

[jim solo]

Hello Dan 1, Tribalism is what I am trying to remove myself from. A tribe is a necessity the for survival in the
beginning of life. I do not want to be a follower or a leader, just a wanderer the rest of my life. Society / tribalism
is the rut I want to remove myself from to be more precise. I'm just trying to understand where this piece of ice
I'm floating on is going. Should I try to steer it or let it drift. A little of both I guess. The way I see things, if you
are a part of a society / tribe, you can not do this. I will have to remove myself from that norm, before I can drift
or steer. I'll be floating around until I find that direction to steer into.

 

[wayne49]

Leaving one external "norm" to follow a different external "norm".

 

[Dan 1]

Hello Dan 1, Tribalism is what I am trying to remove myself from. A tribe is a necessity the for survival in the
beginning of life. I do not want to be a follower or a leader, just a wanderer the rest of my life. Society / tribalism
is the rut I want to remove myself from to be more precise. I'm just trying to understand where this piece of ice
I'm floating on is going. Should I try to steer it or let it drift. A little of both I guess. The way I see things, if you
are a part of a society / tribe, you can not do this. I will have to remove myself from that norm, before I can drift
or steer. I'll be floating around until I find that direction to steer into.

Good Monday Morning, "jim solo". Thank you for your sincere reply to my comment. Your perspective about "tribalism" is interesting and should be considered and understood.

I was of a similar wanderer loner mindset, when I was younger. For a long time my dream was to be a "Mountain Man", that followed the trails of Jim Bridger and the like.


I think my problem was that "My Tribe" was no longer a tribe, but had grown into a nation. This "nation" was difficult for me to personally relate to...I struggled to identify myself in its reality terms and principles (design parameters). I have always felt like I was an "outsider" in relation to it. I did achieve some success within its "rules" and while I sit here at this computer, I still do. I have learned a lot about what, of this nation, works for me and what does not work for me. At least this nation has allowed me to do this. I thank God for that.

Our feelings and ideas about this huge "tribe of tribes", are, as you said are useful and even a blessing in "the beginning of Life" (Our Lives?), but Many of Us reach a maturity where We begin to see Better Ways of Being. ways that tend to help Us escape the harsh realities of the "Tribe of tribes".

But, I have begun (in my 70's) to grow beyond the need to be a "Loner" and experience a hunger for more social interactions. However, it is not like I am turning back to the Ways of the "Tribe of Many Tribes", but am circling around toward a new Living experience as a member in good standing of a smaller tribe that is more to my liking and ability to function well in. It would be a tribe that I can be more comfortable in, because it Lives, in its other members, by certain Moralities and Principles that I can Believe in and Practice. One might "see" this circling as one that does not return to its point of origin, but rises to a Better Level. 

I can now see that my penchant for being a "Loner" was a foundation from which I Personally Evolved (still Evolving) to more usefulness and Good Relationships, within the scope of a smaller, more manageable (cope with), tribe. I don't have that brave wee tribe yet, but I am getting closer. Thanks to "inspirational Leader Bob Wells" and all the "BobWellites", I see a potential for a lot of learning and a lot of possibilities for "finding" my dreamed of and desired, little tribe.

Our personal need to "remove Ourselves from Tribalism" is a natural first "survival" step to either enable Us to live more Natural and less stressed Lives as "Loners", to some degree, or is a first step toward growing into more sociable beings that are appreciated in their role in their little tribe. Sometimes, under certain conditions, We can be both. To me "both" is Ideal.

You intelligently shared some Good Thoughts:

"[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]I'm just trying to understand where this piece of ice[/font]
[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]I'm floating on is going. Should I try to steer it or let it drift."    Good question.[/font]


[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]" A little of both I guess."   Here you reveal your personal ability to be able to see more than one way to do things. Each way will present its moment.[/font]


[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]"The way I see things, if you [/font][font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]are a part of a society / tribe, you can not do this."   I agree. Especially if the "tribe/society" smothers you. [/font]


[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]I will have to remove myself from that norm, before I can drift [/font][font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]or steer. I'll be floating around until I find that direction to steer into.[/font]"  Wisely written. May you find the "Direction" that is Ideal for You. 

Thank you for the heartfelt sharing. Hope to meet you in person some day.    Dan 1

I think you are in a good position to

 

[Dan 1]

Leaving one external "norm" to follow a different external "norm".

Yes, "wayne49". A good observation, this. Thank you for sharing it.

I suppose that for every Individual, there is an external norm?

Is there such a thing as an "Internal Norm"? And would this have something to do with the "Psychology" of that "jim solo" speaks of?

 

[jim solo]

This is getting interesting ! I sat down after reading Dan 1's last post and wrote this ;



 ( I’m looking out of my rv window at the big Maple trees. It rained all night, they are wet, there is no breeze moving about. It’s like I’m looking at a painting, through my window screen. I hear traffic from the highway, no birds, and a few drops of water hitting my roof. As I look past the trees to the small hill side in the distance, nothing is moving. It is all standing still, like it is waiting for me to disturb it.



A cooperation between me and nature, it seems to keep me in check. It slows me down when I need slowing. It gives me good weather that allows me to get things done, when they need doing. A balance
Between me and nature is what I’m losing by stagnating in a tribe. As I write these thoughts, it has begun to drizzle rain, a couple leaves have begun to move and allow flashes of light through.



Nature is my best friend, and knows me well. Nature will steer me in the right direction. We are all being guided by some force of nature, whatever we choose to name it. )





Would this way of looking at things be an "Internal or External" norm ?

 

[Dan 1]

Yes, jim. I think so. To me, this experience of Yours seems like both. The Internal part is reaching out from you...to meet the External part that you see all around you. Usually Nature will "show" you possibilities and then You will decide if these possibilities have potentialities for You. Once you identify a potentiality, You will probably focus on a particular train of Thought and, from that point, Your next action...something to do. This is the way it looks to me anyhow. Thank you for the opportunity to Think about this 'Internal"/"External" norm relationship. It's always good to review these things in Ourselves. 

Imagine a "tribe" that feels, thinks and does very much like You do. Maybe sometimes they are there and other times they are not.