Old Vans versus New Vans?

[Regina]

Pick your poison.

Thank you slow2day! Love the quote! And so I have been told that there are positives and negatives with keeping an old van or getting a new one.
Is it true that if there is an EMP(electro magnetic pulse that downs the grid), all newer vehicles with computers will not work?

 

[steamjam1]

Van on 66:

Magnum powered Dodge vans are famous, or infamous for PCM issues, which are more often then cause by Mopar's world famous wiring corrosion tendency. Only Lucas ("The Prince of Darkness") and Miller ("Lights out, *ss out!") electrics are worse. With only 106K on the odo, it's probably worth it to have Chrysler do a full electrical inspection to your van. This is especially important if you live in a state where cars like to rust, like Michigan.

I personally like older vans/trucks for their simplicity.

Your Dodge... Just add a good transmission cooler for the OD transmission, undercoat the snot out of the front frame rails, and make sure the seam sealer at the gutters are in good condition... That van has decades to go...

 

[user 423]

Is it true that if there is an EMP(electro magnetic pulse that downs the grid), all newer vehicles with computers will not work?

Anything is possible. That is an unknown. It would have to be an EMP of huge magnitude to affect vans nationwide. If that were to happen, your van's operating condition would probably be the least of your worries. JMHO

 

[John61CT]

everything with a chip, in range of a specific blast is dead

No single event would cover that large an area

 

[Regina]

Anything is possible. That is an unknown. It would have to be an EMP of huge magnitude to affect vans nationwide. If that were to happen, your van's operating condition would probably be the least of your worries.  JMHO

Slow2day, you are right on that one! Didn't think about it in those terms!

 

[steamjam1]

Thank you slow2day! Love the quote! And so I have been told that there are positives and negatives with keeping an old van or getting a new one.
Is it true that if there is an EMP(electro magnetic pulse that downs the grid), all newer vehicles with computers will not work?

That is correct. An EMP will render anything with microchips useless. This includes modern cars, TV's computers, hearing aids, pace makers, etc etc etc. You can mitigate this my electrifying the body of your van. It's like a shield. This is how the Navy combats EMP cannons at sea. You want the FBI knocking on your door? Build and EMP gun out of dinner plates, aluminum foil and an old roof top TV antenna. How I know this is a long story... The bigger threat are solar flares that are powerful enough to get through Earths Magnetic field. We are at Solar Minimum now so the chances are slim. Ask the Canadians about this... Whole provinces have been knocked out by large CME's. (Coronal Mass Ejections)

I've always thought about what would happen if a CME big enough to knock out the power grid punch the USA in the face... It would be sheer panic and most Millennials wouldn't be able to update their Facebook, and their Toyota Prius would not work. They would have to put down their phones/tablets/netbooks and ... >GASP< talk to eachother! It'll be a Mad Max kinda world!!!

 

[bullfrog]

With the cost of today's parts and labor even if you have a place to work and are physically able to get to and fix every part on the old van you still will spend a lot more than you think. As HDR says rebuilding from front to back means every thing worn gets fixed or replaced, no cobbling to get by, OEM new which is a lot of time and money. I just looked at a 1966, 8 lug , overdrive automatic, 350 cubic inch V8, dual optima batteries, power brakes, power steering, new glass, new hinges and door hardware new paint and new flat bed with side tool boxes, painless wiring harness, aluminum radiator with dual electric fans and AC two wheel drive pickup. Owner had spent over $16,000 in parts to make everything new and updated so he could haul a load and cruse at 70 MPH on interstate. He had had it 2 years and put 16,000 miles on it. He would go no lower than $8,000. I'm still trying to figure out why I haven't bought it but after restoring hundreds of vehicles I can tell you there always seems like there is something that you missed fixing unless you start with a frame. I think reliable vehicles are made after a lot of researching of common problems and doing a preventative intervention to keep them that way or at least something the owner can deal with no matter what the vehicle is.

 

[bullfrog]

That is correct. An EMP will render anything with microchips useless. This includes modern cars, TV's computers, hearing aids, pace makers, etc etc etc. You can mitigate this my electrifying the body of your van. It's like a shield. This is how the Navy combats EMP cannons at sea. You want the FBI knocking on your door? Build and EMP gun out of dinner plates, aluminum foil and an old roof top TV antenna. How I know this is a long story... The bigger threat are solar flares that are powerful enough to get through Earths Magnetic field. We are at Solar Minimum now so the chances are slim. Ask the Canadians about this... Whole provinces have been knocked out by large CME's. (Coronal Mass Ejections)

I've always thought about what would happen if a CME big enough to knock out the power grid punch the USA in the face... It would be sheer panic and most Millennials wouldn't be able to update their Facebook, and their Toyota Prius would not work. They would have to put down their phones/tablets/netbooks and ... >GASP< talk to eachother! It'll be a Mad Max kinda world!!!

Guess I'd have to fire up the old bug like in the Woody Allen movie!

 

[Ballenxj]

That is correct. An EMP will render anything with microchips useless. This includes modern cars, TV's computers, hearing aids, pace makers, etc etc etc. You can mitigate this my electrifying the body of your van. It's like a shield.

Faraday shield?
 Yup, there's something to be said for old school points and condensers. That, and old school non computerized diesel engines with mechanical injectors.

 

[Regina]

steamjam1,
Thanks so much for entertaining my sentiments exactly! The line of work that I am in proves your theory about millennials but generation Z that comes after them is scary as well. They are not to use cell phones at work.... but all the millennials do is Facebook and the Gen Z peeps are in the bathroom taking selfies.

Everyone thought that Somebody was doing the work but as it turns out, Nobody did!

And I would like to hear the story sometime about the lions, tigers and bears (plates, tinfoil, FBI) OH MY!.....
Have a great night!

 

[Mattkcc]

When I was researching Dodge Vans it seemed the problem with the computers' was the wiring harness. One guy had a second computer go out replaced the wiring harness and that solved the problem. What scared me off Dodge vans was the lack of a truck frame. Once the Dodges frame gets rusted your screwed no way to fix it.

 

[Van on 66]

When I was researching Dodge Vans it seemed the problem with the computers' was the wiring harness. One guy had a second computer go out replaced the wiring harness and that solved the problem. What scared me off Dodge vans was the lack of a truck frame. Once the Dodges frame gets rusted your screwed no way to fix it.

Thanks for the feedback Mattkcc.

While it seems that this year series is notorious for bad PCM's, I too believe that the harness is bad, which this van is also  notorious for.  Unfortunately, I understand that new wiring harnesses are no longer available from Dodge.  At the moment I have someone doing a test on the PCM and am supposed to get the results back tomorrow, but if it is the wiring harness, then I am not sure what I will do.

 

[Ballenxj]

Thanks for the feedback Mattkcc.

While it seems that this year series is notorious for bad PCM's, I too believe that the harness is bad, which this van is also  notorious for.  Unfortunately, I understand that new wiring harnesses are no longer available from Dodge.  At the moment I have someone doing a test on the PCM and am supposed to get the results back tomorrow, but if it is the wiring harness, then I am not sure what I will do.

Maybe these guys will have what you need?
http://www.jcwhitney.com/wiring-harnesses/dodge/c10483m23j1s19.jcwx

 

[drysailor]

Thanks for the feedback Mattkcc.

While it seems that this year series is notorious for bad PCM's, I too believe that the harness is bad, which this van is also  notorious for.  Unfortunately, I understand that new wiring harnesses are no longer available from Dodge.  At the moment I have someone doing a test on the PCM and am supposed to get the results back tomorrow, but if it is the wiring harness, then I am not sure what I will do.

While I'm not familiar with this specific harness or it's connectors, it's not unusual for the "female" contacts in connectors to weaken, or slack off, over time, allowing oxidation to build on the contact surfaces, and connection to become intermittent. Sometimes you can clean this off using a pencil eraser (pink), the kind that is shaped like a pencil, and can be sharpened in a pencil sharpener. The key is to just rub it very gently across the surface of the pins/contacts, once or twice, using minimal pressure. But this needs to be a pink (soft) pencil eraser, NOT the white ink type eraser. You could try a contact cleaner spray, but that can be dicey since some of those will eat away the plastic body of the connector, or just move "stuff" around on the connector, creating other issues. It's also a good idea to try not to flex/bend the harness any more than necessary, particularly near the connector.

 

[Van on 66]

With the cost of today's parts and labor even if you have a place to work and are physically able to get to and fix every part on the old van you still will spend a lot more than you think.   As HDR says rebuilding from front to back means every thing worn gets fixed or replaced, no cobbling to get by, OEM new which is a lot of time and money.   I just looked at a 1966, 8 lug , overdrive automatic, 350 cubic inch V8, dual optima batteries, power brakes, power steering, new glass, new hinges and door hardware new paint and new flat bed with side tool boxes, painless wiring harness, aluminum radiator with dual electric fans and AC two wheel drive pickup.  Owner had spent over $16,000 in parts to make everything new and updated so he could haul a load and cruse at 70 MPH on interstate.  He had had it 2 years and put 16,000 miles on it.  He would go no lower than $8,000.  I'm still trying to figure out why I haven't bought it but after restoring hundreds of vehicles I can tell you there always seems like there is something that you missed fixing unless you start with a frame.  I think reliable vehicles are made after a lot of researching of common problems and doing a preventative intervention to keep them that way or at least something the owner can deal with no matter what the vehicle is.

Thanks for the feedback bullfrog.  Everything you said makes sense.  At this point I am still weighing the pros and cons of both sides.  As we all know, anything you own will have to be worked on and serviced, but for me, it is the issues of dealing with electrical and computer issues that I am uncomfortable with.  And I am not alone in that feeling.  As a matter of fact, there is a man from Europe (I can't for the life of me think of his name at the moment, but I understand he is famous) who retired years ago and travels with world in his Mercedes SUV.  With all the options of a vehicle out there, he chose a model that has NO computerized things and 100% mechanical.  From what I read about him a few years ago, he has racked up several hundred thousand trouble free miles.  I have to say that this speaks for itself.

 

[Van on 66]

When I was researching Dodge Vans it seemed the problem with the computers' was the wiring harness. One guy had a second computer go out replaced the wiring harness and that solved the problem. What scared me off Dodge vans was the lack of a truck frame. Once the Dodges frame gets rusted your screwed no way to fix it.

Hello again Mattkcc.

I wanted to add that I also, in my gut, think that there is an issue with the wiring harness.  The mechanic working on my van right now believes that it is the computer so that is being refurbished as I am typing this.  I am still concerned about the wiring harness though and have done some research into buying one and have discovered much to my dismay that this wiring harness is no longer available from Dodge and I have had no luck going to aftermarket businesses.  I was told that most parts for the 2002 Dodge Ram Vans was discontinued in 2013 and Dodge's policy is not to carry parts for their vehicles longer than 10 years.  In fact, I was told by a couple of Dodge dealerships that they would not work on a vehicle older than ten years.  What an eye opening experience this has been!

 

[bullfrog]

I new of a 10 year old 7.3 Ford Excursion California spec that was totaled due to no replacement computer.

 

[Van on 66]

I new of a 10 year old 7.3 Ford Excursion California spec that was totaled due to no replacement computer.

There is something seriously wrong with that picture bullfrog which only leads, in my mind, to yet another benefit for older simpler vans/vehicles.

It also makes me think that going with a Chevy/GMC 350 engine is the best all around way to go as parts for this motor are everywhere.

 

[highdesertranger]

that's odd I just looked and they are available for a 01. they are remanufactured but they are available from several manufacturers including Ford. highdesertranger

 

[Van on 66]

that's odd I just looked and they are available for a 01.  they are remanufactured but they are available from several manufacturers including Ford.  highdesertranger

I can get a refurbished computer for mine and Dodge still has new ones, but I can't get an engine wiring harness for it from Dodge or anywhere else yet, at this point.