Oil Down Again, Today

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gojo,
IN a way I am glad OPEC is there. can you imagine how badly we would get screwed if the USA was totally a closed market. I have little (NO FAITH) that Washington has our
best interest in mind, USA crude would be so heavily tax to save the purple spotted barn rat the average man would never be able to drive or heat his home.
 
Oil sliding back up. Who knows what it is going to do, today? I rolled my IRA into a self-directed acct at Scottrade because my financial adviser and the investment company he worked for were loosing my money and charging me 2% to do it. That's on top of the fund loads where they put my money and the fees for the fund managers. I am making money, now, but DAMN, it's hard work! Where are all those sure-fire investments that rake in high returns, year after year, while their owners get tans in Acapulco?
 
USACelt said:
Gotsmart, Yes.
Do you think that $60 saved is going to increase the GDP? Even if you spend it? Look I understand It "feels good" to buy gas at record lows.
But It does not change the GDP or increase the economy. BNSF is going to furlough 8K workers in Jan. because of lackluster rail transport.
10s of thousands of Canadian oil workers have lost jobs. I cannot even put a number one how many lost in the Permian basin in the USA.
Seems to me last time oil dropped We(as a whole) went out and traded those fuel efficient cars in for big ole gas guzzling beasts, NOT this time
as of late. Seems we might be on to the tricks of the trade. LOL
$60 on ONE tank of gasoline  X how many vehicles (256 million)  X how many times a month does everyone fill up?

Saying that high gas prices are good for the economy is ludicrous.  Here is some basic ECON 101 for you.  

http://www.investopedia.com/video/play/how-gas-prices-affect-economy/

[font=gandhiserif-regular-webfont, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]
At an individual level, higher gas prices mean consumers must pay more at the pump, leaving less for other purchases. But to truly gauge the impact of high gas prices, consider their effect on the broader economy.
Retailers suffer when shoppers have fewer dollars to spend. Brick-and-mortar stores lose customers, as higher gas prices often translate to more online shopping. But higher gas prices raise the cost of shipping – an increase that is often passed on to consumers.
Automakers respond to rising gas prices by building smaller cars with better fuel efficiency, along with hybrids. Some drivers decide to skip their car altogether, and use public transportation instead.
Higher commuting costs also affect the workplace. Some businesses and colleges have implemented four-day weeks to limit the financial burdens of commuting. The high price of gas can be an issue for job seekers, causing them to turn down jobs that would require a significant drive.  
Rising gas prices can cause some companies to back off on hiring plans out of concern about the economy’s health. Less discretionary spending also creates lower sales, and a need for fewer workers.
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[font=gandhiserif-regular-webfont, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]

Read more: How Gas Prices Affect The Economy - Video | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/video/play/how-gas-prices-affect-economy/#ixzz3vFrabPMC 
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook[/font]



I understand some high paid wildcat oil workers have been laid off, but should that justify everyone paying twice as much for a basic commodity that is publically traded?  Admit it.  Much of the price of fuel has gone to fill the bank accounts of the .0001%  I do not feel good about another high rise in Qatar that I will never enjoy.
 
USACelt said:
gojo,
IN a way I am glad OPEC is there. can you imagine how badly we would get screwed if the USA was totally a closed market. I have little (NO FAITH) that Washington has our
best interest in mind, USA crude would be so heavily tax to save the purple spotted barn rat the average man would never be able to drive or heat his home.
In my opinion it's the countries involve with OPEC. With their rapid price change in oil, drove a lot of oil companies out of business. I live in the Eagle Ford Shale area and thousands of workers lost their jobs. It's not just oil companies, it's hotels retail businesses and etc;. A lot of wells are capped, never been serviced. All the pipe lines that been laid are not in full capacity. When everything settles down, they'll jack prices up again and put the US businesses in shock again. Now guess who is controlling our country? This country needs to be oil independent.
In my area one oil company was paying land owners $5000. an acre for a three year lease. Abandoned cleared properties, where drilling rig would have been, are everywhere. This company Sabine Oil went bankrupted. Their stock now is around penny and they're the ones who was paying around $3200 to $5000 an acre.


BTW: A lot of the worker were from the northern US, desperate for a job. Now they are stranded here.
 
Putting people to work is the subject for another thread.  I am afraid it would get political and be shut down.  My opinion is a WPA type. 

Like I said, Another thread.
 
Based on this report from the BBC reporting on the OPEC World Oil Outlook report
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middl...il&utm_term=0_876aab4fd7-d06885e50e-303452377

"Oil prices will reach $70 a barrel by 2020, says Opec
OPEC, the oil-producing group, said in its World Oil Outlook report that oil prices could reach $70 a barrel by 2020, with prices starting to rise due to higher exploration costs. Prices have now dropped to an 11-year low of $37 a barrel. However, the report says that oil will not reach the level of $100 a barrel until 2040 at the earliest, and that the financial sector is feeling the strain, reports the Financial Times. It also reports that OPEC has lowered its long-term estimates for oil demand, with energy efficiency, carbon taxes and slower economic growth all impacting how much oil is expected to be needed in the future. BBC, BBC News"

OPEC is planning on long term low oil prices.
Bob
 
Oil Tankers headed toward England (the UK) are now turning around and going home because there is no room for their oil:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...il&utm_term=0_876aab4fd7-d06885e50e-303452377

"UK awash with oil as tankers forced to turn around
Record high December temperatures have left the UK with a glut of oil. Stocks are at their highest level for five years, with Europe-bound fuel tankers being forced into mid-Atlantic U-turns as demand for heating has dropped. Oil stocks in the UK have risen to almost 15m tonnes, 9% above what they were this time last year, according to figures released by the Department for Energy and Climate Change. John Ficenec and Agency, The Telegraph"
 
@ Gotsmart
I get your point as to having more money in the average joes pocket, but there is more to it than that.

This as well is a good read. Some of that Economic 101.
I believe the think tank that runs our economy doesn't want us to know.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/11738/oil/impact-of-falling-oil-prices/
I look forward to your considerate thought on that.
Like it or not We live in a world economy.
 
USACelt said:
@ Gotsmart
I get your point as to having more money in the average joes pocket, but there is more to it than that.

This as well is a good read.  Some of that Economic 101.
I believe the think tank that runs our economy doesn't want us to know.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/11738/oil/impact-of-falling-oil-prices/
I look forward to your considerate thought on that.
Like it or not We live in a world economy.

Not only do we have a global economy, we have an industrial and technological revolution where fossil fuels are old technology.  

The world has seen a urgent need for new and cleaner alternatives.  Oil is on the way out.  Renewable fuels are the future.  Such as this in India.

http://blogs.edf.org/climatetalks/2...velopment-methane-cook-stoves-in-rural-india/

I have seen a trend of modern dump sites having systems to capture the methane generated to run the equipment.  This is happening on a worldwide scale.

Solar is now being used to pump water.  I was contacted by a concern in Montana to supply solar to run a number of irrigation systems.  

The spike in prices in 2008 is still fresh in the memory of anyone who uses any large amount of power.  

1/2 hour from where I grew up is the worlds largest geothermal plant.  The Geysers. 1,500MW capacity.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geysers

Wind generators are worldwide.  

Electric cars are becoming common.  

The world is evolving, and those who invest in oil will become people who must diversify or lose their shirt.  Whaling ships, New England cloth factories, Buggy shops, Film? (remember Photomat?)  record players,  typewriters, floppy disk, 8 track or any tape. ~~~
 
Yes I agree with your summery, BUT, I do not entirely believe that alternative fuels will be fully successful till oil is gone.
Fact is I am sick of being controlled financially by energy costs and will in the near future bet the MAN lol
 
USACelt said:
Yes I agree with your summery, BUT, I do not entirely believe that alternative fuels will be fully successful till oil is gone.
Fact is I am sick of being controlled financially by energy costs and will in the near future bet the MAN lol

They will be competing, and with competition, the consumer always wins.   :D


http://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Budget-Deal-A-Boon-For-Solar-And-Wind.html



[font=Roboto, sans-serif][size=small][font=Roboto, sans-serif]As Britain’s Conservative government moves to reduce subsidies for renewable energy technology, the U.S. Congress appears at least to have suspended its partisan legislative logjam and approved an extension of generous financial assistance to the industry.[/font][/font][/size]
[font=Roboto, sans-serif]This small part of a huge spending package has gone almost unnoticed by the general public. Most of the attention in the American media focused on how passage again narrowly prevented a government shutdown and on the rare bipartisan support the measure received in a sharply divided Congress. The total $1.15 trillion bill still awaits full congressional approval, as well as President Obama’s signature.[/font]
[font=Roboto, sans-serif]The subsidy part of the package, [font=Roboto, sans-serif]approved by Congress on Dec. 15[/font], lets solar power companies to continue taking advantage of tax credits at 30 percent of the price of a solar panel system, whether it’s a modest home solar kit or a huge commercial solar farm. The credit now will last through 2019, then will shrink gradually to 10 percent by 2022.[/font]
 
Anyone with a 401K/index funds/mutual funds probably owns oil or supporting stocks. 

Oil could be back up to 100 a barrel in the blink of an eye through war/terrorism or what the Saudi's are doing right now.  They did it in the 70's to drive out all the competition.  Oil has been very cyclical in the past who is to say it wont stay that way.  Expecting low oil always is a fools bet.

I own Oil company stock, they pay great dividends.   I love alternative energy and wish we were building more nuke plants.  I also like renewable energy but I also know that so called  green energy is not that green. 

I enjoy battery powered vehicles but they are not  for me.  I love the advances in tech as it spills out into other areas.

I wish we could elect some adult politicians.  End subsidies for oil, allow more access to the oil in the US, stop having a stigma against nuke energy, and quit wasting tax payer money on "green" energy.
 
nobodyG17 said:
Anyone with a 401K/index funds/mutual funds probably owns oil or supporting stocks. 

Oil could be back up to 100 a barrel in the blink of an eye through war/terrorism or what the Saudi's are doing right now.  They did it in the 70's to drive out all the competition.  Oil has been very cyclical in the past who is to say it wont stay that way.  Expecting low oil always is a fools bet.

I own Oil company stock, they pay great dividends.   I love alternative energy and wish we were building more nuke plants.  I also like renewable energy but I also know that so called  green energy is not that green. 

I enjoy battery powered vehicles but they are not  for me.  I love the advances in tech as it spills out into other areas.

I wish we could elect some adult politicians.  End subsidies for oil, allow more access to the oil in the US, stop having a stigma against nuke energy, and quit wasting tax payer money on "green" energy.

This response is in all respect to you as a person.

It is extremely slanted as you have a vested interest in dirty energy.  Cernoble and Fujiyama.  Classic examples of Murphy's law.   That is why I am against Nuke power.  Short useful life, then toxic forever. The potential for extreme disaster is not worth it.  

Green energy  is a lot "Greener" than what you propose.  Solar and wind are the future.  Once they get a hand on using tidal forces, electricity for everyone. 

[font='Segoe UI', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mater artium necessitas[/font]

Necessity... the mother of invention.  Plato
 
We have been wasting the 'free energy' of nuclear 'waste' for decades.  Nuke waste still produces heat, which is energy.  It COULD be harnessed, not buried.
Oil and coal are not nearly as polluting as they used to be, and not nearly so much as the Green Weenies tell us.   Unless you are in China and India - they are technically where we were thirty years ago.  We need to get THEM caught up on pollution reducing tech.
I agree we need more use of our own oil, and less from abroad, especially the Sandland.  Get us off the Arab Oil Teat.  We have the technology, but not yet the collective will.  We haven't built or seriously upgraded our refineries since the 1970's - this is a crime.  We can do better.
The various alternative energies are limited.  They will augment oil but not replace it for a long time to come.  It's simply a matter of BTUS per equivalent units of product, cost of extraction/manufacture/shipping, and political realities.  Solar and wind are great, but as augments.  Useless if the local weather conditions do not co-operate.
I am still hoping for a breakthrough in Cold Fusion for powering large cities, but that is having problems itself.
Science marches on, and the tech keeps improving, but we must not embrace pie-in-the-sky new-tech without making darned sure it does the job.  I have seen too often the glitzy new stuff fail miserably while the working old-tech was already removed from the game.  Waste and other costs were enormous.
But one thing is ever true of Mankind - we NEVER learn from history.
 
Actually, refining capacity has increased by almost 50% in the last 25 years.Capacity is now up to 18 million barrels of product per day.This has been accomplished by upgrading and modernizing existing refineries without needing any new ones.Renewable energy is already here and is making fast inroads into dirty energy use.It will only get better as technology improves.The problems of renewable energy are with storage,not production.A 25% increase in battery efficiency would sound the deathknell for coal and oil.Good riddance.
 
Bob Dickerson said:
Actually, refining capacity has increased by almost 50% in the last 25 years.Capacity is now up to 18 million barrels of product per day.This has been accomplished by upgrading and modernizing existing refineries without needing any new ones.Renewable energy is already here and is making fast inroads into dirty energy use.It will only get better as technology improves.The problems of renewable energy are with storage,not production.A 25% increase in battery efficiency would sound the deathknell for coal and oil.Good riddance.

We will just have to disagree, for obvious reasons.  Studying alternate fuels and power leads me to a completely different conclusion.  But also it depends upon what the student is looking for in power needs.  You and I are at opposite sides of that spectrum.
 
Starting to look grim , The markets are taken back by just how low it will go now.
 
On the way to the gym this morning,I filled our little Chrysler up for $18.Gas is $1.47 a gallon here.
 
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