Nissan Leaf as power source?

[IGBT]

So what do you guys think about the idea of buying a 2015 Nissan Leaf with its 24kW lithium battery bank (with the 5 to 10 year warranty they come with) and using it as a towable power source?

Because of various incentives or something, you can pick up a 2015 Leaf with about 20,000 miles on it for under $8,000.  The battery capacity is covered for 5 years/60,000 miles and the battery is covered from complete failure for 10 years/100,000 miles.   So worst case you would still have 8 years left of usable battery.

So what do you get in a 2015 Leaf?

Well, it uses a 380V 24kW battery but also has a 12V SLA battery.  This 12V battery is charged by a 1.7kW high efficiency DC-DC converter.   That converter makes the whole thing attractive as a spare bank because 1.7kW is a lot of juice at 12V.  Enough to run a 500 watt small air conditioner for 24 hours straight even at a system efficiency of only 50%.

To my knowledge you cannot buy a 24kW lithium battery pack with all of protections, quick charging, etc. for anything close to $8,000, so it is like getting a car for free, even if the car only has a 85 mile range.

 

[John61CT]

Which is perfect range for a towed car for town errands and a day's sightseeing!

Cool idea. . .

 

[ArtW]

And how will you recharge it?

 

[highdesertranger]

he is probably talking about the hybrid model. highdesertranger

 

[Trebor English]

Pasted from the Nissan web page:

Charging On The Road

Hit the open road and enjoy the accessibility of over 20,000 Nissan LEAF® compatible charging stations in the United States. Plus, get notified via email when your car is fully charged. Drive on.

Locate public charging stations
[*] and connect with Nissan LEAF® owners all over America by downloading the LEAF EZ-ChargeSM app.

The at home charger uses 240 volts.  The solar charge option looks like grid-tie solar with the grid powered 240 volt charger.  The 380 volt battery would only need 32 panels of 12 volts each in series.  I think the already provided battery management stuff could be enlisted to control the charging.

Could you get a jump from a Prius?

 

[John61CT]

I believe a talented DC electrician could convert Leece Neville 320A truck alts over to charge that baby out in the boonies.

If you want to be boring (and inefficient), they make portable jobsite gennies put out 240.

But yah, solar you'd need a sunny half-acre. . .

 

[tesaje]

How about a mounted windmill? Probably too much like a perpetual motion machine.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

 

[IGBT]

It has several charging options.  They all can be charged really fast at the bus voltage of 380V at one of the quick charge stations.  Supposed to be under 30 min to get to 80% charge from near zero.

They all also come with a 115V 15 amp compatible (uses 12 amps) built in charger which will charge up the car from zero in about 21 hours.  If you have a lot of solar, generating 115V at 12 amps (which is about 1400 watts) is not out of the realm of possibility.  2kW of panels would do it even with solar converter and inverter losses.  We carry 1100 watts but could easily bump that to 2kW.

A Honda EU2000i generator could charge it. 

Almost all pay campgrounds have 115V 15 amp outlets, even the cheap army corp campgrounds.


The point is that it is a huge battery bank.   Probably enough juice to run a rig for a week with no sun or generator.  Not practical for the van camper maybe, but for a person who was considering a big lead acid bank in a big rig...

 

[Trebor English]

You could put a tow bar on the front and a bike rack on the roof and use it like a cargo trailer with batteries in it. The Honda EU2000i could go in the trunk in case you run out of battery. You could drive it to the nearest grocery / charging station and bring back a couple of dozen kilowatts and a dozen eggs.

The price, 8 kilobucks for 24 kWh is 3 watt hours per dollar. A 6 volt golf cart battery, 220 Ah, 6 volt is 1320 watt hours, divided by $90 is 14 watt hours per dollar with none of the ancillary stuff. Lithium gives double the discharge depth, resistance to partial state of charge issues, fume free and massive fast charge rates.

This is a good idea for someone who needs that much electricity.

 

[rvpopeye]

Things that make you go HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

 

[ArtW]

he is probably talking about the hybrid model. highdesertranger

Not with an 85 mile range

 

[closeanuf]

One of these days maybe I'll wake up and understand why any reasonably intelligent person would spend good money for a car you need to plug into the electric grid that gets it's power from coal-fired or nuclear power plants.  How is this "green"?  What about the disposal or recycling of the batteries "green"?  At least a hybrid like a Prius can run on gas to extend its range, but a plug in vehicle makes no sense to me at all.  IMHO

 

[IGBT]

Who said anything about being green?

I was just mulling over the idea of a cheap, big battery so we did not need the generator as often when in the shade or winter.

 

[John61CT]

The total runtime of the gennie will be the same, over X days, has to match your usage.

But less frequent, sure.

Scenario I see is boondocking with a big rig, leave it out there, or an off-grid cabin, stealth tiny-house, whatever.

Use the car for errands / shopping, even commute in to a job in town, fast-charge while you're there, no powergen needed out at the site at all.

 

[mariasman]

I think this is a good idea assuming the setting you described. Careful about the car you get as those in very hot regions likely have lost more battery capacity. Also, it's a bad idea to charge with a Honda EU2000 as a good conventional Genny would increase efficiency nearly 50%. Yeah, use charging stations whenever you can.

 

[BradKW]

I like this idea. How do you picture running power from the Leaf batteries into the camper module, just some power poles and cables?

 

[Trebor English]

Get a 12 to 120 inverter that automatically starts when a load is applied.  Mount that in the Leaf and use a regular 10 - 12 gauge extension cord as your high voltage transmission line.  For small stuff like cell phone charging use 8 gauge wire with Anderson power poles planning to replace the plastic connector housing every 3 years or use 10 gauge wire.  When you park the Leaf plug in both cables.

 

[Trebor English]

From what I can tell, the flat tow problem is that the Leaf will use its regenerative braking to charge the battery while it is being towed.  Nissan recommend not charging this way but apparently it really works.  

I would expect that there is a big fat cable harness that plugs in to the synchronous motor that could be unplugged while towing.  Maybe the variable frequency drive control box has a convenient plug at the other end of that cable.  I suppose there are at least 3 wires probably no bigger than starter motor wires.  Does anybody have a schematic for a Leaf?

 

[John61CT]

From what I can tell, the flat tow problem is that the Leaf will use its regenerative braking to charge the battery while it is being towed.  Nissan recommend not charging this way but apparently it really works.  

I would expect that there is a big fat cable harness that plugs in to the synchronous motor that could be unplugged while towing.  Maybe the variable frequency drive control box has a convenient plug at the other end of that cable.  I suppose there are at least 3 wires probably no bigger than starter motor wires.  Does anybody have a schematic for a Leaf?

So the charging load is actually born by the tug propulsion pulling heavier load, likely large cost in mpg & maybe wear & tear

 

[eDJ_]

I find this an interesting idea that would be worthy of further investigation. 

A few years ago in my area thousands of people were without the power grid.  (AEP had neglected trimming trees along the grid during the mild winters to save up loads of money to give their CEO a several million dollar bonus)  When the bad weather came trees fell and knocked out the grid for months.

The local TV Station did this feature on a guy with a Toyota Prius who had devised a way of using it in a way similar to the idea of this "Leaf".   It seems he left the ignition of the Prius on and ran wires to his home from the car.  Car sit next to the house.  It was enough that he could power his furnace (forced air) and run some lights. He had Propane Gas for heat/hot water tank/clothes dryer. (I guess he had learned not to trust the electric grid in his area)

So as the batteries depleted, the car would start and run to recharge automatically.  This was his solution and his choice of the Prius for one of his cars.  He had a Pickup also but it was just gasoline powered. 

I don't know all the details of how he did this but it looked quite simple with the connection with the car.   Inside the house....I really don't know what he had done....but it appeared he had set it up so the Prius would serve this function when needed.


Here is a New York Times article about someone else who learned to do this.

https://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/prius-its-not-just-a-car-its-an-emergency-generator/?_r=0

Green Building Advisor (more detailed information on this)

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/guest-blogs/running-our-house-prius-power