New Vs. Used

[WVWildflower]

What year and model? Are all Jeep Wranglers really like this?

This was a 1998 Wrangler Sahara. Jeeps are not known for their reliability. If I had an unlimited supply of money and wanted this as a toy and had other cars, fine. If I was going to live out of something, I would get the most reliable, low cost to repair, and low cost to operate vehicle I could find- a Prius.

Find a Jeep forum and read/ask questions. You know they start at over 40k?

 

[bpdchief]

I was responding to the statement "Immediate loss of 25% of value when you drive off the lot. Let someone else pay the depreciation." That was never close to being the case. Even in early 2020 my 4 year old truck had only depreciated maybe 10-15%, and there was very little vehicle inflation back then.

If buying new: 1) Get the cheap low trim model. They depreciate less. And it's also usually easier to.... 2) Get a good deal. Shop and look for clearances. Don't be stuck with local yokels who won't give you much of a discount on MSRP. Shop nationwide. If you have to spend $500 flying to save $5k, do it.

Of course in this day you won't likely find a deal on anything new or used. But it also won't depreciate when you drive it off the lot! ... because many don't want to wait 6 months or more to receive one.

I just checked on Cars.com. There are zero 2021 Tundra SRs available in the entire country with 4wd and the long bed. There is only one with any length bed and it's listed at $45k. If I was willing to wait several months I could probably get a 2022 (total redesign in 2022) for ~$41k... maybe. That's MSRP anyway. I paid $31.2k ($5k under MSRP) in 2016, and could sell it now for $35k easy. It only has 17k miles and looks new.

The value of money has certainly gone down where vehicles are concerned!

rruff.... Keep in mind I'm an old fart and be gentle with me. Bought a 2014 Dodge Journey for $19000, 6 months later it was worth $11000. In 1975 when I was 15 looking to buy a car my Dad and his banker told me about the 25% loss and it stuck in my head. 2014 Journey was my first NEW zero miles car and I will #1. Never buy new off the lot again. or 2. Buy a Dodge anything!! So much has passed me by - This old guy is out of touch with reality. I sold gasoline in Oklahoma for 16 cents a gallon / it was 23 cents when I started driving. Rainbow Bread was 25 cents a loaf ! I'd best sit on the sides and keep my yap shut.

 

[Seajatt]

The truth is though, a vehicle is a depreciating item. Its certainly no asset, excepting semi-trucks and things like that which make money. The other to consider when buying new is that odds are good you will need to finance it, and this means interest and if you're not careful, you'll pay for the thing twice over. On the other hand, you get an older vehicle and unless you're mechanically knowledgeable, you're rolling the dice. No easy choice.

 

[rruff]

rruff.... Keep in mind I'm an old fart and be gentle with me. Bought a 2014 Dodge Journey for $19000, 6 months later it was worth $11000. In 1975 when I was 15 looking to buy a car my Dad and his banker told me about the 25% loss and it stuck in my head.

I'm not really disagreeing! Times are just very weird right now for vehicles and a lot of things. And most Toyotas typically don't depreciate very fast in normal times, making them a better buy new. In your example the Dodge Journey was only worth 58% of new price after only 6 months. When I was looking in 2016, I couldn't have bought a 10 year old Tundra with 150k miles that cheap relative to a new one.

 

[Sofisintown]

Is it generally better to get a used vehicle or a new one in this economy?

I'm considering getting a used vehicle under $20k, but I question if it's even worth it since I have to make payments anyways, and I plan on living out of the vehicle. Might as well get something new and reliable right off the lot.

But I don't know a lot about vehicles, or budgeting. Who does?

Educate yourself. Look up lease, auto loans, pros and cons.
Someone making $1000/week, can easily get a car without a loan, if you save enough money over several months.
My advise is : Stay out of debt.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

About Jeeps. I used to hang out with some far northern California people a while back. Rural enough that 4 wheel drive is a way of life just to be able to get groceries. Not a 'nice thing if you can have it'.
They universally reviled Jeeps as a city boy thing. Or called them '4x4 for girls'. I know terribly sexist.
Almost all of them had Toyotas. Either old Landcruisers or some had Tacomas and Prerunners.
I kind of loved the old diesel Landcruisers. Those things were just invincible when we were boondocking at some reservoir or BLM land. Got my old Econoline unstuck on many occasions. No my Ford was not 4x4 just RWD with slightly larger wheels. Yeah I am an idiot.

 

[rruff]

Almost all of them had Toyotas. Either old Landcruisers or some had Tacomas and Prerunners.

The vehicles of choice all over Africa and the middle east. Even the 2wd Toyota Hiace van gets a lot of use in extreme service. It's a shame we can't get those vans here... Id be living in one.

 

[lavaroxx]

Two VERY important things to remember about buying new....
1. Immediate loss of 25% of value when you drive off the lot. Let someone else pay the depreciation.
2. New and reliable are NOT the same thing... I bought a new Dodge Journey, it was in the shop 16 times in the first six months. Dodge got it back! Consider that gently used has the bugs worked out.

If you buy used from a dealer, be sure they let you take it to another shop (preferably a competing dealership) and you pay to have them check the car out (and Schwab will analyze some of the underparts for free and it is worth paying for an alignment to see if bent frame). If stuff that is fixable comes up, take it back to the dealer and have them fix it. You will get 3x the value of what you pay for the diagnostics. The selling dealer even had to put other and new tires on. THE OTHER PROBLEM WITH NEW IS THAT automobiles are made with materials that are carcinogenic and otherwise toxic. A car that is a few years old will have off gassed alot of that (but not all).

 

[lavaroxx]

The vehicles of choice all over Africa and the middle east. Even the 2wd Toyota Hiace van gets a lot of use in extreme service. It's a shame we can't get those vans here... Id be living in one.

You can buy Hiace Toyota converted trucks--->camper from some guy in San Bruno pretty cheap w/ diesel engines that last forever but other parts harder to find. I hear he has some even in the 20ks$. European/Japanese steering wheel on curbside.

 

[Anon]

This was a 1998 Wrangler Sahara. Jeeps are not known for their reliability. If I had an unlimited supply of money and wanted this as a toy and had other cars, fine. If I was going to live out of something, I would get the most reliable, low cost to repair, and low cost to operate vehicle I could find- a Prius.

Find a Jeep forum and read/ask questions. You know they start at over 40k?

About Jeeps. I used to hang out with some far northern California people a while back. Rural enough that 4 wheel drive is a way of life just to be able to get groceries. Not a 'nice thing if you can have it'.
They universally reviled Jeeps as a city boy thing. Or called them '4x4 for girls'. I know terribly sexist.
Almost all of them had Toyotas. Either old Landcruisers or some had Tacomas and Prerunners.
I kind of loved the old diesel Landcruisers. Those things were just invincible when we were boondocking at some reservoir or BLM land. Got my old Econoline unstuck on many occasions. No my Ford was not 4x4 just RWD with slightly larger wheels. Yeah I am an idiot.

Starting to sound like an FJ Cruiser is an SUV that looks like a toy and a Jeep Wrangler is a toy that looks like an SUV.

 

[Anon]

Most. You might get lucky, but probably not.

I'm curious what your real plan/goal is for living in your vehicle? There is a big difference between trying to live a "normal life", with work and entertainment and distractions and expenses that most people think are essential, and living in town most of the time... vs living cheap and working little... spending lots of time in the wilderness. I get the feeling you might be the 1st group rather than the 2nd. Which is totally fine, but priorities are pretty different.

If you are in the first camp, then a comfortable vehicle with space inside seems like it would be important. You mentioned how beautiful the women were in TJ, so I assume entertaining ladies is on your agenda? If so forget SUVs entirely. You want a van. One you can stand in, with enough room to hang out with people. You'd also want to fix it up nice with all the normal amenities, like a toilet, heat, fridge, cook area, big propane tanks, full solar system, etc.

That doesn't mean you need to give up the ability to do some extended camping in the boonies, but... priorities. Forget about being able to go wherever a Jeep will... but you can get to remote places very well with a 2wd van with good ground clearance, tires, and locker. Look at old style body on frame GM and Ford vans (GMs are still available new), not the new style unibodies that don't have enough ground clearance and are not rugged enough. You can easily build your own hightop.

Well...It depends on what you mean by what most people find essential. I don't care for TV, I'm trying to quit YouTube and smut, I don't care for bars too much except in cool small towns with just the locals, live more intentionally with less distraction, less addictions, less dependencies, and yes I would like to live closer to nature. I'm not afraid of some hard work, though.

Yeah I'd like to return someday and entertain the ladies, but doing so in a van still seems pretty cramped, but maybe I'm wrong. I figured that's what tents hostels and hotel rooms are for.

I'll also add that if I return there I'm most likely going to rent an apartment or buy a house.

 

[rruff]

Ya, it's a different world. I first took off in 1990, at age 30. I'd ditched the TV years earlier, and there was no cell phone or internet then. It was wonderful to really get away from everything... the psychic interference of people and their thoughts and opinions and mental and emotional "noise". Nobody even knew where I was.

These days with cell and internet so pervasive it seems much worse... everyone is thoroughly plugged in and addicted to the daily dose of drama, fear, anger, indignation, etc... piped straight into our brains basically. Really getting away from that would be good for anyone I think.

If you'd like some good "way back in the boonies" time, that isn't so hard to achieve. Based on recent camping experiences, I think the "rule" still holds that if you are 1 hr+ on a dirt road on public land, especially if there are some slightly technical areas to traverse, and you are not at any popular spots (check the internet for places to avoid!), then you'll probably experience nature... peace and quiet. These days being out of cell range would be a big plus too! And for that a rugged and large SUV or van (old style Ford or GM van) will serve you well as a home. A 2wd will work fine... and be very fine with a lower regear, locker, mild lift and good tires. You don't need 4wd. In the west if you move with the seasons, avoiding mud and snow is easy. Air down for sand... works every time.

I mentioned earlier somewhere that older Sequoias looked to be pretty good deals for a Toyota, considering the times. Where you live, maybe even more so. They have the same engine and drivetrain as the Tundra, just a different rear suspension and frame. Most will have 4wd which is nice. I would cut the roof off and build a hightop if I had an SUV. A van will give you more room, but they are so popular now and pricey, and they do not come with 4wd (remember, just a nice thing, not necessary)... but if you want more space, a van is the way to go.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

My old Econoline was good enough for gravel and dirt roads, but when you got to the more 'technical' parts as they say, it was just not adept at the slow creeping over loose crap that 4x4 vehicles seem to do without any effort.
I remember one campout there was a kind of camel hump formation that every single RWD and most FWD autos got stuck in.
Everyone tried to have enough momentum going down to come up the other side. But if they were too aggressive they would just slip.
It was part of the entertainment at the camp, since the campout was in a big bowl, and the road kind of came in high and wound around low.
So everyone at the campout was watching folks attempt that path and fail. Or just barely make it.
My friend Nicole was fist pumping that her little minivan conquered it in one try when everyone else in more 'heavy duty' vehicles failed.
Of course when they did get stuck one of our local friends got in his Landcruiser and winched or pushed them out.
Dude got pretty weary of that after a couple days.
Just remembering the one guy who broke an axle trying to cowboy through in a little Tercel or something.

My current Transit I haven't really bombed many dirt roads in. The clearance is a lot lower than the equivalent Econoline.

 

[rruff]

My old Econoline was good enough for gravel and dirt roads, but when you got to the more 'technical' parts as they say, it was just not adept at the slow creeping over loose crap that 4x4 vehicles seem to do without any effort.

Yes, that is a major advantage for having a low range. But semi-modern 2wd vans all have traction control, and more gears than in the past, and more power and torque, so they can get through nearly anything. If you want to make them more capable, a lift, regear and locker, and bigger tires will help as well and not be terribly expensive. Maybe $3k rather than $20k for a 4wd kit. IME ground clearance was the biggest issue, which you can fix with a lift and tires.

Important rule... don't drive into some place you can't get out of!

 

[MA-Rider]

Is it generally better to get a used vehicle or a new one in this economy?

I'm considering getting a used vehicle under $20k, but I question if it's even worth it since I have to make payments anyways, and I plan on living out of the vehicle. Might as well get something new and reliable right off the lot.

But I don't know a lot about vehicles, or budgeting. Who does?

My advise is wait for this temporary period of vehicular shortages and increased prices to subside before purchasing any vehicle.

 

[Anon]

My advise is wait for this temporary period of vehicular shortages and increased prices to subside before purchasing any vehicle.

Too late

 

[afblangley]

In the end I only saved about 8k off the new price.
And not even the brand or model I wanted really.
I should have just gone all in on a brand new van.

That sucks. Hopefully folks will read what you've shared and learn from it. The is a lesson that's applicable in a lot of aspects of life. Go for what you want, don't settle. Don't be fiscally irresponsible, but with major purchases, make sure it's what we really want. Presumably we're going to be using (and paying) for it for a while. Every month when we write a check for it, we're going to revisit that decision. Choose wisely.

 

[Anon]

That sucks. Hopefully folks will read what you've shared and learn from it. The is a lesson that's applicable in a lot of aspects of life. Go for what you want, don't settle. Don't be fiscally irresponsible, but with major purchases, make sure it's what we really want. Presumably we're going to be using (and paying) for it for a while. Every month when we write a check for it, we're going to revisit that decision. Choose wisely.

I didn't even know I wanted a cruiser until I checked one out. I always thought I wanted a Jeep.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

My advise is wait for this temporary period of vehicular shortages and increased prices to subside before purchasing any vehicle.

Nobody knows if this is a temporary bubble or the new reality. (My bet it is the new set point).

If you can afford to wait, wait. But I think that prices will go up as inflation accelerates and new switches to electric.

If you need a vehicle soon you have to pay the price.

 

[rruff]

Nobody knows if this is a temporary bubble or the new reality. (My bet it is the new set point).

It's temporary... just a question of how long it will take for all the disruptions to run their course.

The high demand for used vehicles has been driven in part by a disruption in parts availability (mostly electronics) for new ones. And a big part of that was caused by the government printing and then tossing out a few trillion $$$ to people who were unable to spend it on services, so they bought stuff instead... prices for everything went up... poor supply and high demand hitting simultaneously. And a bunch of people suddenly got the idea that if they have to be semi-isolated anyway, they could just camp in the woods and work (or collect UE) remotely, so the demand for vans went up even more than other vehicles. None of this is sustainable.

If you need a vehicle soon you have to pay the price.

You are right about that! We'll start moving back to equilibrium pretty soon I think, but if you can't wait, you've got to pay what stuff costs now.