Need a little component help

[rderito]

Hi, I need a little help figuring out what and which are the best electrical and solar components I need to buy for my school bus build.
Here's what I did so far, 
I installed a small electrical 110 volt fuse box and wired six outlets in a chase above the countertop. 
that's all I did so far.
I have six 160 Watt grape solar panels that I will mount to the roof and into my 80 amp mppt charge controller and then wire to 3 or 4 AGM batteries.
Here's what I would like to do.
1- I would like the engine to charge the batteries when its running.
2- also the solar panels will charge the batteries but  I would like the solar to kick in automatically when the engine shuts off, if that's possible if not a switch is OK.
3- I would like a shore power plug that would power the fusebox and all the outlets but when not on shore power the batteries would power the 110 volt outlets 
4- I would like the shore power to charge the batteries also if that's possible.

I will have 12 volt lights and fans to wire but I know how to wire those to the MPPT controller and 12 volt batteries.

I know I need an Inverter but not sure in what sequence to wire all the components that I need to make this work.
Its starting to get confusing to me.
I appreciate all the help.
Thank You.

 

[highdesertranger]

first tip, solid core household wire is a poor choice for wire.

second, those terminal strips that pinch the wires with a screw are also a poor choice for mobile applications.

third, no need for a switch to turn the panels on. charging off the alternator and the panels is fine no need for switches and the such.

fourth, you can incorporate a battery charger into the system no problem.

number 3 on you list has a couple of ways to go. the simple way is to unplug the shore power cord and plug it into the inverter. but then you need to unplug the battery charger to prevent a loop. there are automatic ways off doing it but they are far more costly and complicated.

highdesertranger

 

[Almost There]

Any chance you're coming to the RTR this year?

I have everything in the set up in my van that you're looking at doing and it's easier to show someone what connects to where and how than to try to write it all out. Can do that if you need it but it's a lot of typing and then clarifying.

 

[rderito]

thanks highdrsertranger. I thought that about the wire, ill change it to stranded .
and I wanted to come to the RTR this year but I don't think ill make it.
I know its a pain to type all that info, I would love to see your set up.

 

[Weight]

What HDR said, plus this. I would probably not have an inverter wired into all the coach 120 circuit. But if you need. Yes more complicated. But safer 120 volts. Shore power needs to have a on-off-on transfer switch. It can be hand turned or automatic. Blue Sea makes some hand-op switches for you. Depends on your amperes, pick the right one. https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/7/38/Switches/Rotary_Switches I would probably not have an inverter wired into all the coach 120 circuit. But with a transfer switch you can connect to inverter or to the pedestal for 120 volts.
What I have as an example. Pronautic charger can plug into pedestal and main's power. One device to plug in I don't need a transfer switch. Two 120 volt items use the inverter from the battery, the rest is 12 volt from the battery. All the gurus say, "all charging sources can be connected to the battery", no problem as far as charging. A few switches for convenience plus some fuses to protect the 12 volt wires. I wish I could underline fuses.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Unless you plan to often park the rig in deep shade, like under carports, garages, and such, or operate in northern latitudes during winter with low sun angles and short days, I dont see the need to provide a charge line from the engine alternator to the large battery bank. 

Your array will be capable of around 50-70 amps in full sun, and even with a cloudy day could easily provide 20 amps to the battery bank. Unless you have parked under shade for days and run your batteries down beyond normal levels with power tools, hair dryers, blenders, residential fridge, air condioning, convection or microwave ovens, etc, I dont see why a charge line from the engine would be needed. Will you actually be driving for several hours each and every day? Asking your alternator to provide an extra 50-100 amps if the battery bank is depleted may lead to a short operational life for that alternator.

I would suggest a genset to help recover from depleted charge levels (if that occurs) and that can be used to boost the charge level, if needed, without needing to drive, and without loading down the engine alternator.

Plus, keeping the house electrical system isolated from the bus electrical system can have some benefits.

Now the shorepower thing, yes, you probably want a good, heavy duty inverter-charger, wiring for 50 amp service, and with auto-transfer switching. Budget around $1000 to $2000 for a good one.

 

[Almost There]

Sorry you're not going to be able to make the RTR.

Ok, here goes:

I chose to use 4 - 6 volt FLA batteries - Trojan T105REs to be exact. 

Charging while driving: Solenoid (heavy duty please) under the hood, fused at solenoid end, wired to a switch on the dash so I can turn it off if I so choose to do so. Heavy, heavy duty wiring to the batteries, fused at battery end.

Charging from either generator or shore power: Marinco inlet charger for hooking up outdoor extension cord from portable generator or shore power. I put mine on the indent on the back bumper so I didn't have to drill 1 7/8" hole in the van body. You'll have to figure out where you want it on the bus. Used outdoor extension cord to run to small circuit breaker box in my 'electrical room'. From there I wired 2 duplex outlets where I figured they'd be handy for when I have 120V power. If you're building in a onboard generator you will want a switch to change from shore power to generator.

A circuit from the breaker box runs to the 55 amp Iota battery charger I chose to use. From there battery cable sized wire to the battery bank. No switching needed on mine because I can only plug either the generator or the shore power in at any one time.

Charging from Solar: I chose to use portable solar so I have a Marinco Inlet Charger outlet which is wired to the MPPT solar controller housed in my electrical cupboard/room. I simply plug in my solar panels to a specially wired extension cord (has to be carefully wired to match the positive/negative from the solar panels. Controller wired to the batteries with heavy duty fuse at battery end.

Inverter Use: I chose a 400 Watt pure sine wave inverter because I don't need to run anything particularly heavy. Since all the inverters come equipped with 2 outlets to plug in to and I wanted to put the inverter in the electrical cabinet I wired 2 duplex outlets in the living area back to the iinverter and simply put male extension cord plugs on the wires and plugged them in to the inverter. I also installed a switch on the power line going to the inverter. The switch is in my living area so I can turn the inverter on and off without having to go in to the electrical cabinet. I used a lighted switch so I can see that it's on. This prevents the parasitic draw of the inverter when not in use..handy when you're producing your own power. Fused at battery end.

12V power system: Blue Sea 12 circuit fuse block wired to the battery. I was able to contain myself and only ran 8 - 12V outlets to various parts of the van and used the other 4 circuits for ceiling fan and 3 lights. In a bus you'll probably want to have more circuits than that.

It's helpful to think of each type of wiring separately instead of trying to confuse yourself with all the different types of power sources, circuits and wiring.

Here's a picture of the 'electrical room' minus the solar controller. I ran out of space and had to put it in the cupboard above. The loose wires are the stuff that was the last to be installed and pic was taken before I got around to dressing the wires properly...hell, some of them still aren't come to think about it...sigh!



Ask away if you've any questions!

 

[rderito]

OK Almost There, Thanks.
So a switch on your battery solenoid, that's a good idea.
also the Marinco plug with cord going to your cabinet and the inverter charger.
I don't want a generator, so far I understand what you did.
and the lighted switch on your inverter is a great idea too.
as far as the 12 volt stuff I'll probably do the same thing you did .
Thanks for the explanation of each, I think im back on track now.
I just have to change all that wire that the electrician used to stranded wire.
Thanks again

 

[Almost There]

Just a couple of things!

The inverter is not a charger nor is the charger an inverter.

The charger charges the battery bank when plugged in to either a generator or shore power.

The inverter changes 12V to 120V.

Yes, there are combination units but like anything else, getting one thing to satisfactorily do 2 jobs usually  means sacrificing quality of at least one of those. Size your battery charger to match your bank and size the inverter to what you expect to need to use it to run.

Unless you're going to be near shore power on a regular basis or are only using the bus in southern climes year round, then adding a generator means making sure that you're not running out of power when you  have more than one cloudy day in a row. For me, living in a northern forest all summer means that during that time the generator becomes the main source of charging unless I'm staying in an RV park where I'm hooked up to shore power 24/7.

 

[AuricTech]

To expand on what Almost There said about sizing your inverter to meet your expected needs, keep in mind that large inverters are inefficient for small loads. Depending on your expected loads, you may want a large inverter (say, a 1500W inverter to run a microwave oven for a few minutes at a time) that you turn off when you're not running a large load, with a much smaller inverter (perhaps a 300W model) for routine small loads.

If you want to run devices (such as laptop computers or many CPAP machines) that use DC power, you should look into DC-DC voltage converters; going DC --> AC --> DC wastes power.

 

[B and C]

The solenoid should be a continuous duty solenoid, nat a car starter one. A car starter solenoid will burn up if used in this fashion.

 

[Matlock]

Snippey...

Ok, here goes:

Here's a picture of the 'electrical room' minus the solar controller. I ran out of space and had to put it in the cupboard above. The loose wires are the stuff that was the last to be installed and pic was taken before I got around to dressing the wires properly...hell, some of them still aren't come to think about it...sigh!

"Thank You" for taking the time to type up your system with clear, (acronym delete) text and... and... include a photo! Good heavens, a photo of an actual working system.