My Van Won't Start & Stalls

[Van on 66]

Hi Everyone!

I am having trouble with my 2002 Dodge 1500 Ram Van.  It actually stranded me in the middle of nowhere this past weekend in New Mexico.  Thankfully I was able to get it to run a few times long enough to drive it to a town where a local mechanic was able to look at it.  Unfortunately, he was not equipped to fix it.

According to the mechanic, one of the wiring harnesses that plugs into the computer module under the hood is loose so it wiggles and then cuts off the signal to the fuel pump.  I tried wiggling it myself and have been able to get it to start up, but it runs from a few seconds to a few minutes and they dies again.  There is no question that this is an electrical issue as the odometer and gear shift indicator will flash on and off and the gauge needles go on and off too. 

I am assuming that replacing the wiring harness will fix everything, but I am also concerned about what I can do to prevent this from happening again and also any other glitches with this motor/system that I can address before I have any more issues.

The van only had 86K miles on it when I bought it from the original owner 2 1/2 years ago and it has run perfectly.  I had shopped for a long time to find a used van in my price range that was in decent shape.  I love the van, but I am disappointed to discover that the Dodge vans after 1995 had a lot of electrical problems since they introduced computers to them.  It is too late now for me to get another one and I don't have the money so any advice anyone can offer that will help me be more trouble free in the future would be greatly appreciated.

Waiting to get back on 66!

 

[Trebor English]

Since wiring harnesses go all over replacement isn't common.  Since the guilty connector is identified you can study the connector to see if any of the pins don't line up like the others.  A gentle poke with a pointy thing might realign a pin.  There are spray electrical contact cleaners that might help.

 

[Gideon33w]

Ahh, Dodge/Chrysler products ...

First, you need to determine which side of the harness connector is the issue. Is it the harness side or the ECU side? The pain in the butt of replacing the whole harness does you no good if the receiving connector is the issue. So, pull the connector off and have a look at both sides. Clean all the contacts, stick them back together, and see if just electrical tape holding them together can get you by for now. You may be able to order just the connector end which is at fault and then simply snip the old one and solder the new one on. Depends on which connector.

That said, with a little knowhow and a soldering iron you could just always snip the connector and hard wire it all together. Not the proper fix but it makes no difference to the ecu. A Haynes or Chiltons manual will give you the entire vehicle wiring diagram if you get lost.

As far as other glitches, you didn't actually state which motor you have but all the Magnum series motors are prone to oil consumption due to the plenum gasket failing. Better to replace before you are having issues. The big concern with the full size Dodge vans is the transmission though. They suck.

 

[highdesertranger]

common problem with Dodge's. Stern Wake did a write up on his and how he fixed it. hopefully he see's this and will chime in. the problem is usually in the computer itself. highdesertranger

 

[Van on 66]

Since wiring harnesses go all over replacement isn't common.  Since the guilty connector is identified you can study the connector to see if any of the pins don't line up like the others.  A gentle poke with a pointy thing might realign a pin.  There are spray electrical contact cleaners that might help.

Thanks Trebor.  My research on the net with sites that deal with vehicle complaints is telling me that one of the biggest problems with this area is that Chrysler did not make the connection area weather proof so water being splashed up could and has caused corrosion which then causes problems.  I was wondering if a good way of cleaning them would help as well.

 

[Van on 66]

Ahh, Dodge/Chrysler products ...

First, you need to determine which side of the harness connector is the issue. Is it the harness side or the ECU side? The pain in the butt of replacing the whole harness does you no good if the receiving connector is the issue. So, pull the connector off and have a look at both sides. Clean all the contacts, stick them back together, and see if just electrical tape holding them together can get you by for now. You may be able to order just the connector end which is at fault and then simply snip the old one and solder the new one on. Depends on which connector.

That said, with a little knowhow and a soldering iron you could just always snip the connector and hard wire it all together. Not the proper fix but it makes no difference to the ecu. A Haynes or Chiltons manual will give you the entire vehicle wiring diagram if you get lost.

As far as other glitches, you didn't actually state which motor you have but all the Magnum series motors are prone to oil consumption due to the plenum gasket failing. Better to replace before you are having issues. The big concern with the full size Dodge vans is the transmission though. They suck.

Hi Gideon and thanks for the response.

You are right on the money about which side is the concern and that is one of the issues that I weighed in my mind.  I didn't clean either side as I wasn't sure what to use, but did connect and reconnect the harness and it did help some, but didn't last for long.  I also used plastic ties to hold up the harness as keeping it upright seemed to help, but, alas, that didn't last for long either.

The repair manual was one of those, "I should really get one of those" things that I still haven't done, but I will definitely do that now.

Thanks for the tip on the plenum gasket.  I have kept a close eye on the oil consumption since I bought it and it has not had an issue up until now, but I will sure address it.

 

[Van on 66]

common problem with Dodge's.  Stern Wake did a write up on his and how he fixed it.  hopefully he see's this and will chime in.  the problem is usually in the computer itself.  highdesertranger

Thanks for the response highdesertranger.

As I mentioned in another reply here, I have been doing a lot of internet research the last few days about vehicle complaints and it seems that the addition of the computers by Dodge beginning in 1996, I believe, has created a lot of issues.  From what I am hearing, the 1995 Dodge van is the coveted year model. 

It would be great to see what Stern Wake has to say so I hope that he sees this.

 

[user 423]

Actually they were added in '88 but I have heard the later vans had more problems. I have a '91 and did replace my PCM but the problem was related to the charging circuit.

Have you checked at Dodgetalk.com?

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=278

It's not as active as it once was but it's worth a try.

 

[Van on 66]

Actually they were added in '88  but I have heard the later vans had more problems. I have a '91 and did replace my PCM but the problem was related to the charging circuit.

Have you checked at Dodgetalk.com?

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=278

It's not as active as it once was but it's worth a try.

Hi slow2day and thanks for your response.

Someone told me that the computer systems were added in 1996 so thanks for the update. 

I have not checked on the dodge talk site, but will do that right away.

 

[SternWake]

The connector wiggle causing a stall at the ECM/PCM is a bitch.

The weight of the wire bundle at the computer itself seems to fracture the solder joints where the pins meet th circuit board.

My connector was an issue as well from techs piercing the wire insulation right at the connector and it then growing brocolli.

Sometimes Zip tying the wire bundle to the ECM can be a good fix for a number of years, sometimes caig deoxit d5 spray could fix an intermittent poor connection. Usually the fix is a wull harness inspection and cleaning. If it still stalls then an ECM/PCM replacement is likely required.

Not sure how hard it is to open and resolder the pins on a 2002, but I did this on my 89 several years ago without any issues since

 

[Van on 66]

The connector wiggle causing a stall at the ECM/PCM is a bitch.

The weight of the wire bundle at the computer itself seems to fracture the solder joints where the pins meet th circuit board.

My connector was an issue as well from techs piercing the wire insulation right at the connector and it then growing brocolli.

Sometimes Zip tying the wire bundle to the ECM can be a good fix for a number of years, sometimes caig deoxit d5 spray could fix an intermittent poor connection.  Usually the fix is a wull harness inspection and cleaning. If it still stalls then an ECM/PCM replacement is likely required.

Not sure how hard it is to open and resolder the pins on a 2002, but I did this on my 89 several years ago without any issues since

Thanks for your reply SternWake.

Everything you said makes perfect sense from everything I just physically saw.  The local mechanic who also towed my vehicle used a Zip tye to hold it up and it worked for a little while until I was on my way out of town.  And then it stalled on me again.  After inspecting both the connection plug and the receiver on the ECM/PCM it appeared to me that they were fine, but I wish that I had something to clean both ends with at the moment.  Still, this sure appears to be a very serious weakness for this van.

My van is actually on a transport headed back to where I am right now and is scheduled to be looked at by a mechanic I know that has done work for me in the past so I am hoping that all this will be remedied.  At least now I know what to look for from now on. 

I am also wondering if something like a dielectric grease can be used to coat the connections before connecting them to help ensure a stronger connection as well as aid in preventing corrosion there which I have heard also causes problems.    What do you think?

 

[SternWake]

Dielectric grease is noot conductive. it is to prevent moisture and oxygen getting onto the conductive surfaces and allowing them to fester.

It can get old and hard and actually becoma an issue after a while if there is arcing going on around it.

A sterile connector can be accomlished first with the electroni connector spray cleaners sold at autoparts stores.
Sometimes some mechanical abrasion will help use less of the spray cleaner. The den tek bottle brushes fit nicely into the connector and can help abrade and remove the old hard grease.

Once the connector appears clean, the conductive surfaces are likely badly oxidized stil. Regular contact cleaners do nothing for this oxidation. The Caig Deoxit d5 or d100 is kind of magical in terml of making consudtuve surfaces cleand and highly conductive again.

But Caig deoxit is NOT going to fix a broken solder joint on the circuit board.

I've no idea how difficult it is to access the pins on a 2002 PCM to resolder. Honestly it was pretty simply on mine though i was highlyu hesitant to try it on my own. I tried to fins some guys eperienced with soldering electronics without success and then just went for it myself.

There could be a capacitor or several failing in the ECM too. Your fix might be a new ECM and simply ensuring the connectors are pristine by the method I listed above.

Here is a small kit that has a few bottle brushes and small swabs:

https://www.amazon.com/DeoxITKit-In...501212485&sr=8-1&keywords=caig+industrial+kit

Here are some tiny botle brushes that are graeat for getting inside pin socket connections:

https://www.amazon.com/Tamiya-Cotto...&sr=8-4-fkmr0&keywords=tamiya+precision+swabs

https://www.amazon.com/DenTek-Profe...501212643&sr=8-2&keywords=dentek+brushes&th=1

I do not use dielectric grease inside connectors, i use the Deoxit shield, and then after connector is reseated I inject Dielectric grease around any void to prevent moisture and airflow from getting inside.

If you give the connector this treatment and stalling si still occurring, wither the pins fractured solder joints need to be resoldered, or you need a new ECM/PCM.

The regular electronics spray cleaners will remove the old dielectric grease and make the connector look just fine, but it will not touch the oxidation on the conductive mating surfaces. most people will ignore this fact, but the Caig deoxit is magic electrical juice, and any swabs saturated with it, inserted into the sockets will come out black and shredded from the sandpaper like oxidation, eventually the swabs will come out pink and the insides of the sockets wil gleam like oiled silver or gold.

I'd frankly not wast any time or money haveing a mechanic look at it further. if the connector wiggle induces stalling, clean it with teh Caig d5. if cleaning does not affect stalling you are replcing the ECM or taking it somewhere for a professional to reflow the solder on the pin circuit board mating area.

I'dd not trust a mechanic to do anything more than blast the connector with their CRC QD cleaner and reseat it. more finesse is required to eliminate the connector itself as the issue, and once that proves to not be the issue then a new PCm or reflowed solder is the fix, although a bunch of Zip ties immobiulizing the wire bundle and holding them ins such a manner as to hold the contact, can work for a surprisingly long amount of time, but it is a ticking bomb.

Look into new PCMS, having yours shipped off for rebuilding or buying a rebuilt one.

 

[Van on 66]

Dielectric grease is noot conductive. it is to prevent moisture and oxygen getting onto the conductive surfaces and allowing them to fester.

It can get old and hard and actually becoma an issue after a while if there is arcing going on around it.

A sterile connector can be accomlished first with the electroni connector spray cleaners sold at autoparts stores.
Sometimes some mechanical abrasion will help use less of the spray cleaner.  The den tek bottle brushes fit nicely into the connector and can help abrade and remove the old hard grease.

Once the connector appears clean, the conductive surfaces are likely badly oxidized stil. Regular contact cleaners do nothing for this oxidation.  The Caig Deoxit d5 or d100 is kind of magical in terml of making consudtuve surfaces cleand and highly conductive again.

But Caig deoxit is NOT going to fix a broken solder joint on the circuit board.

I've no idea how difficult it is to access the pins on a 2002 PCM to resolder.  Honestly it was pretty simply on mine though i was highlyu hesitant to try it on my own. I tried to fins some guys eperienced with soldering electronics without success and then just went for it myself.

There could be a capacitor or several failing in the ECM too.  Your fix might be a new ECM and simply ensuring the connectors are pristine by the method I listed above.

Here is a small kit that has a few bottle brushes and small swabs:

https://www.amazon.com/DeoxITKit-In...501212485&sr=8-1&keywords=caig+industrial+kit

Here are some tiny botle brushes that are graeat for getting inside pin socket connections:

https://www.amazon.com/Tamiya-Cotto...&sr=8-4-fkmr0&keywords=tamiya+precision+swabs

https://www.amazon.com/DenTek-Profe...501212643&sr=8-2&keywords=dentek+brushes&th=1

I do not use dielectric grease inside connectors, i use the Deoxit shield, and then after connector is reseated I inject Dielectric grease around any void to prevent moisture and airflow from getting inside.

If you give the connector this treatment and stalling si still occurring, wither the pins fractured solder joints  need to be resoldered, or you need a new ECM/PCM.

The regular electronics spray cleaners will remove the old dielectric grease and make the connector look just fine, but it will not touch the oxidation on the conductive mating surfaces.  most people will ignore this fact, but the Caig deoxit is magic electrical juice, and any swabs saturated with it, inserted into the sockets will come out black and shredded from the sandpaper like oxidation, eventually the swabs will come out pink and the insides of the sockets wil gleam like oiled silver or gold.

I'd frankly not wast any time or money haveing a mechanic look at it further. if the connector wiggle induces stalling, clean it with teh Caig d5. if cleaning does not affect stalling you are replcing the ECM or taking it somewhere for a professional to reflow the solder on the pin circuit board mating area.

I'dd not trust a mechanic to do anything more than blast the connector with their CRC QD cleaner and reseat it. more  finesse is required to eliminate the connector itself as the issue, and once that proves to not be the issue then a new PCm or reflowed solder is the fix, although a bunch of Zip ties immobiulizing the wire bundle and holding them ins such a manner as to hold the contact, can work for a surprisingly long amount of time, but it is a ticking bomb.

Look into new PCMS, having yours shipped off for rebuilding or buying a rebuilt one.

Once again, SternWake, thanks for the abundance of VERY useful information.  I will dive into all this and let you know what happens.  I found a full set of the original factory service manuals on ebay and ordered them last night, so now I will see what I can get done.

 

[rvpopeye]

X2 ^ on the Caig d5 .
I have used it or previous versions for over 30 years.On my own trons or on others devices.
Ditto on a fine tip soldering iron.

 

[Van on 66]

Hello Everyone!

I finally have an update on my van.  After three weeks of pacing the floor, tossing and turning at night, and imagining all kinds of scenarios, I got "The Call" from my mechanic and I now have my van back in my possession. 
 
My mechanic told me that the gasket that seals the gap between the two sides of the PCM was basically disintegrated and the sides of the PCM were pulled apart in some places resulting in quite a gap.  There was a good bit of corrosion on the circuit board and many of the soldered joints were broken apart.  He said that Dodge had done a poor job of designing not only where the PCM was placed, but how it was placed leaving the weight of the connectors to pull on the circuit board. 
(SternWake was spot on with his assessment.)

Then came the big surprise.  I knew that he had spent considerable time himself as well as the mechanics who work for him diagnosing the problem and I was told that the shop he sent out the PCM to had also spent a good deal of time rebuilding it.  Needless to say, I was bracing myself for the big hit in the pocketbook.  After hearing all his diagnositcs, I simply asked him to give me the bottom line to which he replied.  "Well...I am going to give you the deal of the century.  Your final bill is $387.20."  I thought I was hearing things so I asked him to repeat it.  I still don't have the words to say to express my gratitude.

How many mechanics do you kow that would go out of their way in this day and time to help someone out?  Like I said, I simply can't find the words to express my gratiitude not only to those involved working on my van, but to all of you who were concerned enough to offer advise.

This has been an adventure I will not soon forget and I am looking forward to getting back on Route 66 again soon!

 

[Ballenxj]

Yeeeeaaah, got your van back! May you now have many trouble free miles in it.

 

[Van on 66]

Yeeeeaaah, got your van back! May you now have many trouble free miles in it.

Thanks!  That would work fine for me!