Murphy Bed/Table In Cargo Van... Please Help!!

[Born2Explore]

So I have an Extended 2004 GMC Savana 3500 with a Hi-top, and I have been working through some ideas for the bed/main table!

My thoughts... We do not want to have to set up and tear down the bed every morning/night like some set ups have where they have two couches in the back and then a table that drops down to be the middle support of the bed. We also would like to try to keep the back walkway OPEN when the bed is not set up. With the Murphy Bed, my hope is to be able to leave our bedding, pillows, etc. on the folding part and just close it in the mornings, which would hopefully keep our bedding neat/clean and easily folded up and down. On the bottom of the bed, I was thinking that would be perfect for a folding table! (I have only seen one other person on youtube from outside the US do a design similar with table and bed in a cargo trailer). I do not have all the details yet on how I will latch the bed closed, or what i will used to support the table when it is open.

I have been told NOT to try to "re-invent the wheel" when it comes to this conversion. But I need some input from all of you who have been doing this for a while! What are your thoughts?? Will this work how I hope it will?

-Born2Explore

 

[JesseTrue]

This is very similar to a design that I've been working on. I think a swing-out triangle or rigid right angle underneath will support the table (in my design).

Like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087FV5YK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_O77WzbGMCVB3R

I've also been thinking of doing a Murphy on both sides. The smaller couch-sized could have a long shelf which opens to the aisle when down and faces up when raised. This could also be used on the larger side with the depth of the shelf being the supporting "legs" of the Murphy bed.

Since the larger bed is higher up, shelf doors may have to be on two sides.

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[RVtrek]

I have been told NOT to try to "re-invent the wheel" when it comes to this conversion. But I need some input from all of you who have been doing this for a while! What are your thoughts?? Will this work how I hope it will?

I think you've got it pretty well figured out.  Don't pay attention to the doubters (or haterz!).  If you did, you wouldn't even be working on a van build.  You've got 3d models of what you want, and I think it looks fantastic.  It's actually a simple design, mechanically, so I don't see anything wrong at all.

 

[Wabbit]

Looks OK but I have no experience with that kind of setup. I have a question about how you are going to support the fold out desk, how are you supporting that fold out desk? If you haven't gotten to that part yet, instead off a support piece underneath the desk, how about chain\rope\550 cord from each corner of the desk back to the underside of the bed platform. Can you picture that? After table folds out, from each corner of the desk run a chain\rope at about 45° upwards to the underside of the bed platform. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[Born2Explore]

This is very similar to a design that I've been working on.  I think a swing-out triangle or rigid right angle underneath will support the table (in my design).  

Like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087FV5YK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_O77WzbGMCVB3R

I've also been thinking of doing a Murphy on both sides. The smaller couch-sized could have a long shelf which opens to the aisle when down and faces up when raised.  This could also be used on the larger side with the depth of the shelf being the supporting "legs" of the Murphy bed.  

Since the larger bed is higher up, shelf doors may have to be on two sides.

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The table support there is actually a good idea! I just dont like the little lip that doesnt fold down. I would want mine to be able to be folded and locked flat against the bottom of the bed. But i can maybe modify that idea! 

And I am having trouble visualizing the support shelf for the murphy you are describing, do you have a picture or sketch?

 

[Born2Explore]

Looks OK but I have no experience with that kind of setup. I have a question about how you are going to support the fold out desk, how are you supporting that fold out desk? If you haven't gotten to that part yet, instead off a support piece underneath the desk, how about chain\rope\550 cord from each corner of the desk back to the underside of the bed platform. Can you picture that? After table folds out, from each corner of the desk run a chain\rope at about 45° upwards to the underside of the bed platform. Hopefully that makes sense.

The desk support is actually part of what I am trying to figure out. But i can absolutely picture what you are talking about for the support! I have thought about that, but i dont know if i like the idea of having the rope awkwardly there if you are eating at the ends of the table. Like if my wife and I are facing each other, we would have ropes in our way. Unless they anchor point was directly down from the roof instead of the underside of the bed... thats a thought.

Thanks!

 

[JesseTrue]

You can put that piece (the angle brace) on the underside of the table instead of the wall. This also allows you to fold the table up with a simple flush piano hinge.

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[Born2Explore]

You can put that piece (the angle brace) on the underside of the table instead of the wall. This also allows you to fold the table up with a simple flush piano hinge.

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Yea, I actually really like the angle brace idea for the table! Thanks! I also need to figure out how to lock the table in the UP position so that when you fold the bed down, the table doesn't swing down. I have a few ideas in my head, like using an L bracket mounted to the bottom of the bed to rotate and latch around the table when it is up... any other thoughts?

 

[JesseTrue]

How about a hole or holes drilled into the edge with a sliding bolt or one of the latches used for windows?

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[Almost There]

You could always just use one of the pedestal support legs for the table when it's in place. Take it out, st it aside and fold up the table (it will need latches to hold it to the underside of the bed). That will support the table, be easy to work with and won't interfere with using the table for eating etc.

One thing I did notice is that your drawing is using straight sides on the van...there is a about a 6" curvature to the walls in a Savana that will have to be accommodated. It will be waste space behind the Murphy bed when it's in the up position and you will lose that same amount of space in the center aisle.

I didn't allow for it when building the box for my C-Head toilet and ended up with what started to be a place for a guest to sit being non load bearing by the time I modified the box to fit the curvature of the walls.

 

[Born2Explore]

One thing I did notice is that your drawing is using straight sides on the van...there is a about a 6" curvature to the walls in a Savana that will have to be accommodated. It will be waste space behind the Murphy bed when it's in the up position and you will lose that same amount of space in the center aisle.

I didn't allow for it when building the box for my C-Head toilet and ended up with what started to be a place for a guest to sit being non load bearing by the time I modified the box to fit the curvature of the walls.

That is a really good point, and I designed that before i actually bought the van. Since I bought the van, I re-did all of my measurements and this is the newest revision... not the prettiest. But it is to-scale and dimensioned properly accounting for the curve. I plan to use the space behind the bed when it is up to store all of our bedding, pillows, etc.

I also read on the forum about someone using cardboard cutouts to check all their measurements before actually cutting any wood, and I plan to do that as well. Did you use cardboard as a sort-of template before making wood cuts?

 

[Almost There]

I didn't for the cabinetry itself but I did for the floor plywood. It's very important because you want a friction fit for the plywood so you don't have to screw it down. The side edges of the van are nasty to template because of the cut outs for wheel wells, gas tank inlet and the upright beams. I also have the floor coming out to door edge along the rear cargo door to provide a platform for my toilet cabinet.

I did the plywood floor so that all my seams lie under various components. So 1 full sheet down the passenger side and then a 1/2 sheet against the drivers side and the other half of the sheet did the rear section (2 full sheets total) You may need more since you  have an extended body I believe?

However, I did do a lot of markings on the plywood floor when I was doing the calculations and a lot of sitting on a stool contemplating the whole thing.

I had a lot of time to work on scale layouts since I bought the van in the late fall and couldn't actually start the build until the spring....

 

[Born2Explore]

I came across these on Amazon... Might be able to make these work to secure the table to the bottom of the bed. Do you think this would stay latched even when the table is upside down?

I really want to try to avoid any rattle from the table against the bed when going down the road. These clamps can cinch down pretty tight which I think would reduce rattle, just don't know how they will hold upside down.

 

[JesseTrue]

Prime-Line Products F 2653 Window Sash Lock, Spring Cam Action, Antique Brass https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DS4DAKC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_rnbXzb5D8M8PH


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[Born2Explore]

Prime-Line Products F 2653 Window Sash Lock, Spring Cam Action, Antique Brass https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DS4DAKC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_rnbXzb5D8M8PH


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Wow... yea, those make a lot more sense for this application! Then you wouldn't have to worry about the table coming lose or falling when its upside down. Thanks!

 

[JesseTrue]

I'd use clear rubber bumpers - the tiny round ones - attached strategically to the wall for squeak reduction and to provide a bit of pressure against the table when locked in the up position. You could also use a lock on each side instead of on top.

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[Chrisbx7]

I built a queen size murphy style bed on the drivers side of my van. I have a 2'-6 inch walkway whenever the bed is folded up. I mounted 2 tables on the bed that fold down whenever the bed is up. The layout works great for me as I like to keep my bedding put away during the day. I've been camping in this for the last couple of years and it works great. 


Sorry I don't have an update pic of the bed down with the mattress....

 

[Born2Explore]

I built a queen size murphy style bed on the drivers side of my van. I have a 2'-6 inch walkway whenever the bed is folded up. I mounted 2 tables on the bed that fold down whenever the bed is up. The layout works great for me as I like to keep my bedding put away during the day. I've been camping in this for the last couple of years and it works great. 


Sorry I don't have an update pic of the bed down with the mattress....

That is pretty much exactly what I want to do!! Nice job! You should get some updated pics and post them here, I would like to see!

A few questions...
What type of hinge did you use for the bed platform?
Do you have a better picture of the latch you used to hold the bed up?
What do you used to support your two tables when they are folded down?
Is there anything you would have done differently with your design if you were to do it over?

Thanks so much for posting that!!

 

[Chrisbx7]

That is pretty much exactly what I want to do!! Nice job! You should get some updated pics and post them here, I would like to see!

A few questions...
What type of hinge did you use for the bed platform?
Do you have a better picture of the latch you used to hold the bed up?
What do you used to support your two tables when they are folded down?
Is there anything you would have done differently with your design if you were to do it over?

Thanks so much for posting that!!

I'm at work right now and will have to get pics later. 
What type of hinge did you use for the bed platform? I used a 4 or 5 foot long piano hinge for the bed. 

Do you have a better picture of the latch you used to hold the bed up? It's a barrel latch

What do you used to support your two tables when they are folded down? I have the table tops attached with a piano hinge and 2 regular hinges. They are fastened to the table and the bed. I put a 2 x 2 under them that supports them whenever down. They are going to hold 50 lbs but they have held my food and we've played cards on them. 

Is there anything you would have done differently with your design if you were to do it over? I probably would have made the base about 6" wider. This would make it easier for the bed to fold up and down.

Overall it works well. Getting my bed ready or putting it up only takes about 5 minutes. Not much considering it's out of the way all day.

 

[Born2Explore]

Prime-Line Products F 2653 Window Sash Lock, Spring Cam Action, Antique Brass https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DS4DAKC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_rnbXzb5D8M8PH


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After doing a little research, I think this lock will be the best! Same style, but better quality and heavier duty. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BD8JT0/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I33G1W79Z7ZQB&colid=2QTYBEQUTDJFU
I think I would use two to hold the bed up, and two to hold the table to the bed.

And was thinking of using two of these to support the weight of the table when it is folded out. http://www.hardwaresource.com/hinge...-shelf-hinges/hinged-shelf-support-heavy-duty

Then using a piano hinge (as suggested above) for both the bed and table.

Thoughts?