Mr Heater heating thru external vent duct

[lonewolf2koc]

I'm very concerned about propane and CO2 emission in an enclosed mini van. To be safe throughout the night including sleeping through, is it feasible to put the heater outside the car and run a 6-10 ft air duct (high heat resistance) into the minivan?

Looking into the Olympian Catalytic Wave 3 heater. It's not cheap. Still needs proper ventilation. I'm OK with using those cheap single Coleman propane canister. A night it'll cost me about $4 in propane. I'm thinking of putting this in the front of the passenger. Leave the right passenger of a minivan down about half way and this should be safe. I'll be sleeping all the way in the back of the mini van. Planning to use two CO2 detectors just in case the first one fails. The outside temperature will be 20-30 deg. F. Snowy conditions. I'm from Souther CA. To me a chilly night is 40 deg. F. Most people in the cold states will laugh at 40 degree being too cold. 20-30 degree is definitely very uncomfortably cold for me. I'm adapted to a warmer climate. Heating is a must have.

Electric is great but I don't want to buy another 175 ah AGM battery to power the electric heater. IF I do it means I have to run the car and use the alternator to charge it at least 6 hours with a 26 Ah charger.

Planning to be in the northern states (Wyoming, N. Dakota). It's chilling cold and very hard to get a good night sleep without reliable and safe heating source.

 

[B and C]

You have already got the first of a three prong safety approach, the CO detector(s).  Redundancy is always good.  A good propane detector placed near the floor (propane is heavier than air) and battery operated smoke detector mounted near the ceiling.

Piling on the blankets (or a good sleeping bag) and a stocking cap at night, you won't have to worry.  When you wake up, fire up the heater (and coffee) and crawl back under the covers while it heats up the van.

Unless you put some sort of heat exchanger between the heater and your van, it is as if it were still in the van.

 

[compassrose]

I will tell you what I use in my 40 ft bus. To start with, I have a CO/LP detector plus a smoke detector. My LP heaters have never set it off. I have a vent-free LP fireplace (you won't get that into a van) PLUS I have a Tag-a-long brick LP heater that is designed for interior use. The Tag-a-long is on a 20lb tank. I suggest you get a 20lb tank and plumb the heater to it. My LP tanks have always run out and needed changing over in the middle of the night, in the rain, in the snow, in the sleet and/or were covered in ice.

This is the Mr. Heater one my daughter uses. It is safe also. You need to be looking for heaters that say they are safe to use inside.

 

[MrNoodly]

Heat rises. So, you'd need either some sort of forced air system or the heater would need to be placed under your van. Besides, if you're sensitive to cold, going outside to turn your heater on and off will be very unpleasant. A small heater will warm up a van in just a few minutes. You wouldn't want to leave a heater running all night, unless you like sweating.

Meanwhile, your body is pumping out 98 degrees. It's easier and cheaper to trap that heat with proper clothing and bedding. Furthermore, not being used to the cold is only a temporary situation. Living mostly outdoors acclimates your body -- and mind. I lived in central Canada for two years with winter temperatures averaging about -25F, with dips as low as -70F. I got used to it. I'd go out without a coat when it "warmed up" to zero.

I've never met anyone living the mobile life who has had problems from using a catalytic heater in a closed space. That's what they're designed for. They have sensors that shut them off when oxygen gets low (the equivalent of being at 7,000 feet). So don't worry needlessly.

 

[Canine]

Another option, for about twice the price, is the platinum Cat ventilated catalytic heater. It vents the nasties more efficiently than cracking a window. More efficient at using propane, too, because it controls the amount of air being vented. It also has a thermostat. Expect to wait 10 weeks or so to have one shipped because the waiting list gets pretty long this time of year.

 

[highdesertranger]

anything you mount outside will need forced air(a fan). besides how are you going to keep the CO out with an open heater like a Buddy? you just can't put a duct around the area that gets hot and duct that inside. the CO is just going to come in with any heat. I would just do like others have said and use the heater before bed and after you get up. get a good sleeping bag. highdesertranger

 

[lonewolf2koc]

Thanks for all the input on this. My least wanted thing to do is to let the mini van gasoline V6 engine running while parked for 5-6 hours per day in a 10-40 F. This will charge the AGM batts and provide front passenger heat. I typically will consume about 70-80 A out of the car alternator (charging two 175 Ah AGM batts). I noticed at this rate it's best to have the car in driving vs parked & idle mode. But not always possible to drive the car for maximum alternator performance.

One of the downsides to this is the engine noise (can be hear at least 100 ft away) and rear exhaust smoke vapor that will not make it stealth anymore. if the wind is blowing to the front windshield, I occasionally will smell the undesirable engine smoke exhaust. Will idling greatly increase the wear and tear of the car gas engine and heating parts?

I tried to warm up the car as much as possible and go to sleep. However, it gets really cold and my body forces me to wakeup and turn on the heater many times. Maybe I need those very expensive mountaineering sleeping bags with special wool materials. The ones I tried rated at 0 degree (mummy style) just isn't warm enough for those super cold 10-20 degree snowy nights.

anything you mount outside will need forced air(a fan). besides how are you going to keep the CO out with an open heater like a Buddy? you just can't put a duct around the area that gets hot and duct that inside. the CO is just going to come in with any heat. I would just do like others have said and use the heater before bed and after you get up. get a good sleeping bag. highdesertranger

 

[Almost There]

Let's double check how you're using that 0 degree bag.

Always change in to dry clothing, never wear your daytime clothes to bed. Whether they feel wet or not, they have absorbed a days' worth of your bodies evaporation. I have a set of micro fleece long thermals that are wonderful.

There are sleeping bag liners available that will not only help keep the sleeping bag cleaner but also add some 5 to 10 degrees worth of comfort to the bag.

BTW, in North America sleeping bags have no universal rating, it's strictly the manufacturers best guess as to what the bag is good for. In any case, the rating is survival rating not comfort rating. The bag may only be good for comfort to something well above the rating.

Are you sleeping on a foam mattress or are you trying to sleep on an air pad that has no insulative value to it. If you are, an air pad or mattress will leave you chilled because there is no way that your body heat is ever going to heat the air in the mattress. I always use at least a 100% wool blanket along with a duvet under me to block the cold.

A hat of some kind will help hold in body heat all over the body. Yes, your mother was right in making you wear a hat in winter...

Similarly, a pair of good wool socks will help keep your body warm as well. They need to be loose enough that you probably wouldn't want to wear them during the day. I found a pair of MaxxHeat socks at Marks Work Wearhouse that actually have an R rating - it's only 1.83 but better than nothing.

How old is the sleeping bag and when was the last time it was at least fluffed if it's down and preferably washed. Sleeping bags that are not aired out and kept clean lose a lot of their warmth retention capacity.

Other tricks that are used by winter campers include having a warm drink or snack just before bed. Also, a Nalgene bottle filled with hot water and put in a sock can work wonders for keeping you warm during the night. If you go this route, definitely get a Nalgene, experience has shown that most others can leak and will, sooner or later.

 

[Reverse Engineer]

Although in super cold weather (below zero) I usually let my truck run all night, I did not do this from Zero on up.

Usually a really good sleeping bag by itself is enough from around 20F on up.

From 0-20F, add in a 12V electric blanket inside the bag. It is toasty warm this way. Current draw is not bad, although I suggest having a deep cycle marine battery in addition to the regular starter battery of your car.

 

[Reverse Engineer]

Another solution I pursued not while trucking but while living in my Astro Van was to heat up 2 bricks on my grill before going to sleep. After 15-20 minutes on the grill, said bricks were HOT. I picked them up with tongs and put them in an insulated metal box, which I then put inside the van.

If I needed more heat in the van, I would open the box and let the heat radiate. If the van was getting too hot, I would close the box. I got through a NYC winter this way.

 

[jimindenver]

Check out Willy's threads on the gravity feed furnaces. Fumes outside, heat inside and no fans.

 

[accrete]

since sleeping bags were mentioned...

I've mentioned elsewhere I utilize a Selk'Bag Patagon _LINK_ during some of nights and also around camp/van during the colder days. LUV it. When the temps drop i'll toss a down-alternative comforter on top and i'm way toasty.

And you'll be the camp-clown looking like a giant Gumby : )

On heating up in the morning...we go with the aforementioned idea of heating up water for coffee/tea. With 12,000BTU burner on our little butane stove it heats up the interior in under the time the kettle needs to boil.

Thom

 

[highdesertranger]

you should be able to keep warm with a zero degree bag something is not right. read Almost There's post, good info. one thing that hasn't been mentioned, get yourself a dog. beats the hell out of any electric blanket or heater. highdesertranger

 

[debit.servus]

ccretesince sleeping bags were mentioned...

I've mentioned elsewhere I utilize a Selk'Bag Patagon _LINK_ during some of nights and also around camp/van during the colder days. LUV it. When the temps drop i'll toss a down-alternative comforter on top and i'm way toasty.

And you'll be the camp-clown looking like a giant Gumby :
A sleeping bag suit, much like snowmobile/drysuit underwear. Every human being needs to try it. Very enveloping and warm.

 

[wagoneer]

Sounds good be happy

 

[ascii_man]

Another option, for about twice the price, is the platinum Cat ventilated catalytic heater. It vents the nasties more efficiently than cracking a window. More efficient at using propane, too, because it controls the amount of air being vented. It also has a thermostat. Expect to wait 10 weeks or so to have one shipped because the waiting list gets pretty long this time of year.

http://ventedcatheater.com/

Any thoughts on whether to get the large or the small model?  I would think the large, but it's hard to say for a minivan.

 

[Canine]

http://ventedcatheater.com/

Any thoughts on whether to get the large or the small model?  I would think the large, but it's hard to say for a minivan.

For such a small space, even if you had modest insulation, seems to me the small one would be fine. Unless you are in Minnesota during the winter, then the bigger one would be better. But that is kind of a guess. Lots of people here use the smaller Mr. Buddy or Wave 3 but are in warmer climates. I don't have my build done, so I can't give you first hand information how well my small one works.

A problem with getting one that is larger than you need is that it will cycle on and off more frequently. It will heat up your van quicker, but shut off more often. Catalytic heaters run either full on or off- no in between. In a small space like a minivan, you could point the radiant heat directly at you and that would help a ton. You might have a bit of frost on your water jugs, but at least you would be warm.


There are threads that talk about the catalytic heaters and real world applications. Bob had a very well insulated box van when he was in Alaska. He had two catalytic heaters going full blast and it was still cold. Around 10,000 BTU's worth of heat full blast if I remember correctly.

 

[akrvbob]

There are threads that talk about the catalytic heaters and real world applications. Bob had a very well insulated box van when he was in Alaska. He had two catalytic heaters going full blast and it was still cold. Around 10,000 BTU's worth of heat full blast if I remember correctly.

It was marginal at -30 F. But in a van at -30 that's still really, really good. I lived comfortably in the van for 6 year then my youngest son wanted to live with me so I bought an older 24 foot travel trailer and put it in an RV Park so he could go to his school. 

That was my most miserable winter ever!!! I could not get that effing trailer warm. At -30 the furnace ran nearly around the clock and we were still cold. I finally bought 500 watt heat lamps and aimed them at our feet and that kept our bodies warm even though the trailer was cold.

I highly recommend Olympian catalytic heaters.
Bob

 

[StarEcho]

Just to give a real world example... I was returning from AZ to Colorado - had to be there on a certain date and was trying to beat a weather pattern into Colorado. I lost and ended up in Trinidad, CO during a snowstorm, at a walmart parking lot. My dog and I holed up in our little VERY poorly insulated 12f trailer with a Wave 3 heater. The temps were around 0 degrees F with blowing wind and snow. The heater was on high and kept the trailer at around 65 degrees. So in a poorly insulated trailer, the Wave 3 on high could keep it at 65F in 0F temps with wind. Not too bad I think.

 

[ascii_man]

little VERY poorly insulated 12f trailer with a Wave 3 heater.  The temps were around 0 degrees F with blowing wind and snow.  The heater was on high and kept the trailer at around 65 degrees.  So in a poorly insulated trailer, the Wave 3 on high could keep it at 65F in 0F temps with wind.  Not too bad I think.

So your trailer was 12 feet long? What is its height & width? I'm trying to compare it with a 19 foot full-size van. The Vented Cat heaters are more expensive than the non-vented, and unfortunately have only one power setting.