Minnesota Tragedy

[Every Road Leads Home]

I think Speedhighway makes a bunch of good points. I also think it's the general movement of society. When I was a kid, I could take my .22 and go plinking down the street along the banks of the local marsh. I had a single cop show up back then, see I wasn't doing anything unsafe and told me to have fun. 20 years before I was doing it no cops would have shown up. Now a days if a 15 year old tried this in the same exact area, in the same neighborhood they'd be surrounded by the local swat team. Attitudes change over 20 years. What you could get away with in 1900 was different than in 1920. 1920 different than 1940's and so on.

I'd venture to guess that the speed in which news travels also plays a role. Not too long ago you only got the local news and a small sampling of national news. If you missed the 6 o clock news you'd probably not even know what happened locally that day. Now you can't escape it, it's being shown on TV around the clock, its in the daily newspapers, on your phone, on social media, it's everywhere and its instantaneous. So things seem more dangerous than they are. How many people do you know that were abused by or shot at by the police? Or how many places have you been that were held up at gun point Probably none. However, you hear an entire country worth of news in 5 minutes and in your mind it's dangerous to go anywhere because you might get shot.

 

[USACelt]

Not sure if it is okay to post but this kinda pertains to the story. I have not done the fact check on this but looks legit.

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...do-castile-falcon-heights-mn-police-shooting/

 

[TrainChaser]

The bottom line with guns seems to be that, if you carry a gun, you'd best have a functioning brain and some common sense.

The guy in Wisconsin was being pestered by a derelict begging for money, and to get rid of him, he showed him his gun. The derelict called 911 on his taxpayer-purchased cell phone. The cops already knew he had a gun, but it was in his pocket. Then he started fighting. Two of his three moves were judgmentally poor, and it cost him his life. But it still looked like murder to me.

 

[USExplorer]

I've noticed in many of these police interactions with fatal endings, the guy pulled over makes vague, mumbling answers and avoids eye contact, both of which put any police officer on edge. A movement by the driver, and the cop pulls his gun and starts shooting. I do believe police should be held accountable, but I also believe that people need to be straight with cops. Look them in the eye and be completely honest. Exercise your rights quietly but firmly. If you won't answer a question, say so, don't mumble and fumble. Learn to speak like a lawyer. Lawyers don't shoot cops on the street, they fight them in court.

If you have a gun, and a suspicious cop asks about it during a traffic stop, which response is more calming, "I've got a concealed gun" or "Yes, I do possess a firearm legally under federal and state law."

 

[Svenn]

I've noticed in many of these police interactions with fatal endings, the guy pulled over makes vague, mumbling answers and avoids eye contact, both of which put any police officer on edge. A movement by the driver, and the cop pulls his gun and starts shooting. I do believe police should be held accountable, but I also believe that people need to be straight with cops. Look them in the eye and be completely honest. Exercise your rights quietly but firmly. If you won't answer a question, say so, don't mumble and fumble. Learn to speak like a lawyer. Lawyers don't shoot cops on the street, they fight them in court.

If you have a gun, and a suspicious cop asks about it during a traffic stop, which response is more calming, "I've got a concealed gun" or "Yes, I do possess a firearm legally under federal and state law."

Agreed completely; it's utterly appalling that the media is taking this youtube/whatever poster's 'word for it' that this is what happened in MN during the stop...  it just proves that modern media is nothing more than provocative sensationalism, and that's very dangerous.  Maybe she's right, but after my experience in the legal field I can almost guarantee you the victim was being hostile/mumbling/irresponsible in some way. I'm not being political but I'm actually very worried that we've turned into a society where even the President, a lawyer, thinks it's appropriate to publicly pass judgment on an open investigation, especially when it's just a video snippet and one interested witness's hearsay!  This isn't the first time the executive branch has done this.  I support this administration but this is one thing that really irks me about them.

 

[DannyB1954]

Here in Nevada when they run the plate it comes up that the registered owner has a CCW permit. I had an Officer tell me he knew when he ran the plate. When asked for my licence and registration I slowly dig out my wallet from my front pocket and hand over the licence and ccw permit. letting them see the permit somehow is less threatening to them than saying it. When they ask if I am in possession I say yes, right hip. I say you are welcome to take possession of it if makes you comfortable. It hasn't come to it yet, but I would let them take possession of it, and not handle it myself. You can say I prefer that you take it, then there will be no misunderstandings.

I would think they should be more worried about people who do not say they are armed.

 

[Gunny]

I will play The Devil's Advocate for Svenn in regards to waiting to get both sides.

A couple of years ago here in Dallas a mans mother called 911 to report her son was acting strangely, two squad cars respond and two cops confront the guy at a distance of 40 feet.
He has a knife or boxcutter, i Can't remember which but he is yelling and waving his arms. Both cops are yelling for him to drop his weapon. He puts both arms at his sides and for that one cop shoots at him 4 times and hits him once or twice. Didn't kill him but didn't do him any good either.

Both cops write in their reports that the man was charging them and they had no choice but to shoot him. Neither dashcam was aimed at the action. Quite understandable to drill someone charging you with a knife, deadly force and all that. Both cops' reports are identical, they were terrified.

Neither of these fine officers noticed the neighbors security system aimed at the action recording this guy just standing there and all of a sudden he's shot. Only the cops poor marksmanship kept him from being killed.

One cop was fired and indicted (and forgotten because you can find nothing about the indictment) and the other a 30 day suspension.

I bring this up because now when there is a shooting the cop or cops get 72 hours to "Compose themselves" and file a report. And 'Lawyer up' immediately.

The craziness that that is going on now is not a new phenomenon but I think people of all stripes are tired of there being no accountability for ones actions. None.

Here, on the friendliest forum I've been involved with we feel the need to discuss what to do if we have an encounter with LEO's. There is something wrong with that.

I don't want to see some guy get killed for reaching back in his car, as instructed, to get his wallet.

I don't know what all went on in Mn. and neither does anyone except those there and we will get several different versions. Pick one. But I don't blindly believe the cop OR the passenger. But I don't think he deserved to die. Sue me.

 

[GotSmart]

I don't know what all went on in Mn. and neither does anyone except those there and we will get several different versions. Pick one. But I don't blindly believe the cop OR the passenger. But I don't think he deserved to die. Sue me.

That sounds like an extremely astute assessment of the situation.  

One thing I disagree on, is giving someone an invitation to help make a lawyer even richer than they are. 

One class I took in college stands out in my mind.  A film of an auto accident was shown to a group of people.  These observers would get several details consistently wrong.

The color of the cars involved.  The clothing worn by the drivers.  The direction of travel.  position of the stop sign.  speed of cars.  And so on.  The human mind is extremely unreliable unless trained to look for specific details.  Even then in the adrenalin rush associated with stress, memories can be false. 

Having been married more than once, I can swear to that detail. 

 

[ArtW]

That's sot of my take on it, too
The guy might have been a problem, or the cop might have been the problem, or some of both, we need to let the courts decide
And Obama needs to mind his Ps and Qs about cases under investigation, it does not help to have a POTUS running around making conclusions without any real evidence