Medical equipment power?

[Vivid-Dawn]

Usually I try to do a search for what I'm wondering about, but I think that this case is so specific that I doubt it's been addresed before. If it has, sorry!

I have a portable oxygen concentrator. It says you can plug it into the car, but the car must be running or it'll drain the battery right out. Well, when I'm camping I certainly don't want to be running the car for 3 hours at a time every few hours!
I know just about nothing about how batteries work, even after reading a bit about them, I'm still a bit confused. Could I get a deep cycle battery (like a marine one) and a little inverter/converter thing to plug my oxygen in and use THAT for charging it up outside the car? Or would that not work either?

This thing was supposed to give me so much more freedom than tanks, but I find now I'm stuck with having to either schedule limited trips out or make sure I can be near an outlet and sit there for up to 3 hours between being "free" :/  

The battery lasts up to 3 hours on a setting of 2 with regular breathing. Problem is, my breathing is quicker than most people and so my battery really only lasts maybe 1.5 hours. I got 2 batteries, but I still think 3 hours is rather short for a hike or fishing trip, away from a plug!

DC power:
Input 11.5 to 16 VDC 18 A max
Output 19 VDC 7.9 A max

AC power:
Input 100 to 240 VAC, 50/60 Hz, 1.7 A max
Output 19 VDC 7.9 A max

Power consumption:
150W while charging,
120W while not charging

14.4 VDC, 6600 mAh (LiIon), 1.5 lbs (0.7 kg), charge time is approximately 2 to 3 hours per battery from fully discharged

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

If power consumption is 120 watts while not charging, then that is the amount of power you need to run it.  Plugged directly into 12 volts, that means it's going to draw 10 amps.  So for every hour you run it, you will be pulling 10 amp hours out of your battery.  Over the course of a 24 hour day you will need 240 amp hours.

An average-sized car starting battery usually has a capacity of around 100 to 120 amp hours. 

But lead acid batteries - the deep cycle ones - should not be discharged below 50 percent, and engine starting batteries - because of the design differences inherent in them - are much worse, say, not below 80%

Bottom line here is that to operate away from the power grid for any length of time, you are going to need a fairly big battery bank, say four of those big golf cart batteries at a minimum, and a way to recharge them daily, which will mean a LOT of solar panels on the roof, and/or a generator and high capacity battery charger.  Or you'll have to forgo boondocking and sleeping in Walmart parking lots, and limit your camping to state parks and commercial campgrounds, places where you can plug in to shore power.

An inverter is not the answer, there will be losses involved in going from 12 volt dc to 120 volt ac and then back to 12 volt dc.  You would need even MORE battery capacity to make up for these losses, so you are better off using your 12 volt power supply directly.

Sorry the numbers don't come out any better than that.

Regards
John 

 

[Vivid-Dawn]

Thanks! That clears things up a lot more!

Well, for actual camping - say 3 days - if I go with my dad he has a generator in the trailer. The problem is that most places won't let you run a generator from 10pm to 7am AND it uses gas... so my family only runs it when really needed, like at dinner time for the microwave and to have the lights on when it's too dark (outside the "quiet time" anyway). I wouldn't die during the night without it, but definitely would need it if I go on activities during the day.

My main concern is I like to go fishing, and for walks on the mountain trails. I used to be out for a good 6-10 hours doing that when I had a liquid oxygen pack. Now I'm limited to 3 hrs, and kinda feels pointless to go out anymore like that.
I wondered if I plugged it into the car on the way home, if I would even make it back home without the car dying? My fishing wagon that hauls my tackle & supplies is big enough to hold a marine battery, so that's why I was kind of hoping it would work.

My other option is to buy more batteries that go in the machine itself, but they're $130 at the cheapest.... I gotta save up first.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

As far as the trip home goes, with the engine running, the alternator should have no problem supplying the 10 amps the concentrator uses.

Regards
John

 

[Almost There]

Battery power aside, you said that with the liquid oxygen you could go out for 6 to 10 hours but with the concentrator you're only good for maybe 3 hours with the battery packs before they need recharging.

Perhaps a different way of looking at it might work. Can you not use the liquid oxygen when you're not hooked up to a good source of power and save the use of the concentrator for when you are.

The combination might give you the freedom you're looking for.

I know nothing about the efficiency and health benefits of one or the other, I am strictly looking at ways of getting you out there and may be way off base in my ignorance.

 

[Vivid-Dawn]

Nah, you got the right idea. Oxygen is oxygen, whether it's liquid-to-gas or filtered from ambient air.

The liquid portable pack would actually last 15 hours (I just only used it up to 10, because even with wearing oxygen my poor clunky ticker was tuckered out after that long being active...I'd go home and have a LONG nap!)

But the healthcare company that was giving me liquid changed their financial program, and I lost financial assistance.... and I just don't have $100 to pay them for the equipment and refills of the big home tank that fills the little portable one.
So I switched companies to one that will accept my insurance and do "hardship" waiver for whatever balance. They don't even do liquid at all, and gave me the portable concentrator.
The metal cylinder tanks also last only 3 hours (each), but once they're empty I have to send them back to the medical supply store to get new ones...batteries are -slightly- more convenient LOL  I do have a couple tanks for a power outtage during storm or whatever. Plus, as I said, I won't die if I go without it, but then I have to be very sedentary.

I can still go out and do stuff, I'll just have to pace myself and maybe be slower than usual and plan things around a power outlet. I may whine about it, but I'm glad I can even leave the house at all... I know people that can barely get out of bed, let alone go to the pond and cast a fishing line for a couple hours.

 

[Almost There]

Now that just plain sucks - being limited to what medical device you can use because of insurance limitations!

For now and maybe into the future, it looks like you're going to have to be tied to using a generator or shore power to recharge the battery packs.

The good news is that I think most people will get over their 'hate the noise of the neighbours' generator' when they realize that it's the choice of you getting out there or being stuck at home. I know I would.

And hey, if you can talk Dad into it, there are whisper quiet generators that can't be heard from 20 feet. They truly are whisper quiet.

 

[gypsychic]

There's a difference between surviving and thriving. Trying to find ways to thrive given your limitations I find it admirable and inspiring. I don't know anything about batteries, at least not anything that sticks for more than an hour after I've read it. I just wanted to say I like your style.

We all have limitations, be it fear, money, health issues. Some may have all three and even more. I guess that's the real reason I like this forum. Each in their own way is finding a way to thrive in their given circumstances and passing along things they've learned along the way. It's wonderful.

 

[Vivid-Dawn]

Thanks, gyspychic!

Right now I have a nice house to live in, and vehicle living is only done for recreation. However, when my dad dies - and depending on what happens with his will distribution - I may end up living in my car. I do fine with using a bucket and garbage bag for a potty, or having food in a cooler instead of a fridge, and all the other "inconveniences" of it (according to my sister LOL). But this one health issue is what has me so nervous. I'm really hoping things go good with the will and I get what I'm supposed to... but my mom is always demanding anything she feels entitled to from my dad, and I know she's going to want everything, even if it is dedicated to me and my sister :/

 

[gypsychic]

I'm not sure if this is relevant to your health situation but I thought I'd pass it along just in case. I've read here and in other places that lead acid batteries can worsen asthma symptoms. I've looked into it but have forgotten most of what I've read a issues with short term memory. I have asthma that at times can be severely limiting so I know when I buy a battery I need to do more research to find a way around it, whether it's the battery venting, type of battery or where it's placed. I don't want anything that will compromise my breathing. Just something to put on your radar. I hope those with more knowledge will chime in and it's not a needless concern for you.

 

[Vivid-Dawn]

I don't have asthma. In fact, my lungs themselves are just fine. It's the artery going to my heart for oxgynated blood that's messed up, plus I have 2 holes in my heart that mixes the oxygenated and 'used up' blood together, so my oxygen levels will NEVER be normal. But 6 months ago my blood could be 90% oxygenated without wearing extra air... now I can barely get it to 80% even with high flow setting.
I do still try to stay away from fumes and chemicals anyway. I don't use teflon pans anymore, and only work on my mechanical stuff outside instead of in the shop, so there's more ventilation. (my hobbies are repairing small gas engines and fishing! I am so NOT a girl! LOL)

So I emailed my doctor today and asked about trying a new drug he's been mentioning for a good year or so. I figured he would just send the RX to the pharmacy, but instead wants to see me tomorrow at 8am! I assume I'll have some tests done. I'm scheduled for an exploratory procedure (not a true surgery, just wires going up through my artery to my heart to look around) next month, but maybe that will be moved up sooner.

 

[gypsychic]

Good luck with the new meds and the procedure. I hope they can accomplish what you and your doctor are shooting for.

I wasn't assuming you had asthma. Just thought if it bothered asthmatics then it might bother someone who used O2. I wish you well in your search to find a way to enjoy your hobbies regardless of health issues. I find nature and a joyful heart to be healing in their own way.

With regard to your 'so not a girl' comment, I can relate. As a little girl I wanted to do all the things the boys did, hunting, fishing, working on cars. I wasn't allowed because my family held strict gender roles. Now I don't care what society says I should do to be a 'proper' lady, nor do I intend to 'act my age' as I age. I'm doing things because they are fun and bring me joy even if I'm the 'wrong' gender or when I get 'to old' to do something. I enjoy the satisfaction of using tools and fixing something myself. I enjoy the thought process as well as the physical results. And at the end of the day I can point to something and say I fixed that or I made that. So much more satisfying than computer work.

 

[Vivid-Dawn]

Oh yeah, my mom got quite riled up when I told her I was going to learn to do small engine mechanics. She's both stuck in the 1950s AND thinks I shouldn't doing "hard labor work" with my heart problems. She wants me sitting at home and crocheting doilies and baking cookies! She went on a rant how it's not lady like, and I'm a princess (okay, yes, on my dad's side I do have a line to King Stewart of Scotland and a bunch of barons... but that was 500 years go, I think the royal blood is a LITTLE bit diluted by now! LOL)
She admits that if she had gotten custody of me when they divorced, I wouldn't even be allowed to drive a car! Glad my dad got me. He says as long as it's legal, and I know my physical limits and when to slow down, I can do whatever I want

So, off to see the doctor to see how to improve the physical part! (no issues with the legal part... being in jail would be almost as bad as being raised by mom LOL)