Keeping warm in sub-freezing weather, using only a tiny amount of fuel for heat.

[Marcos989A]

This reminds me I still have a 12v electric jacket I wore under my leather jacket when riding a motorcycle in cold weather. Gloves too. I installed 12v outlets at either end of my bed. I was going to sell it along with other motorcycle gear, but just realized it may come in handy for this use.

Great way to warm your core temp. short term.

 

[metaglypto]

I just had the good fortune of two nights of 19F cold outside as I slept in my van. I say "good fortune" because it's rare to have a winter where temps ever drop into the teens even once here in Arlington, Texas. These two nights of cold were just what I needed to test my van for winter warmth, and the test was a marvelous success, requiring only a tiny amount of heating fuel.

No one uses electric heat from house batteries to heat their entire van, as the electrical drain would be tremendous, killing the batteries. But I don't need to heat the whole van, I only need heat myself as I sleep. That's the trick, focus on heating yourself, not the whole van. It only takes a tiny fraction of the electricity to heat one person, as it would take to keep an entire van warm.

View attachment 29876
So yesterday I installed this 12-volt jack on the wall right next to my bed.

View attachment 29877
I also bought this 12V electric car blanket to plug into it while I sleep. At bedtime, I set this blanket to medium and wrapped it around my chest over my T-shirt, then put on a comfortable thin-but-insulated jacket and zipped it up over the electric blanket. Then I went to bed under two regular blankets. (It's amazing how much warmer two blankets are than one, regardless of what two blankets you use.)

I also had thick socks on my feet to ensure my toes stayed warm, and insulated gloves on my hands (required by my too-easy-to-chill fingers). Then I slept in total comfort, toasty warm all over! The cold was not uncomfortable to breathe, because my body was so warm. (I cut a small slit in two of the glove fingers so I can still use the touch screen of my cell phone even with the gloves on.)

I'd been concerned I might be wrong about the power draw, and might be about to kill my house batteries before dawn. But checking the gauge in the morning, I found the pull on my batteries had only dropped them 0.2 volts. (What a relief.) Now during the day, the solar panels can bring them right back up again.

Concerned water in the van might freeze, expand, and break containers and pipes, I keep the van about 10 degrees above freezing, ensuring all water stays in the liquid state. So I have a propane furnace with a thermostat on the wall, which I set to 41 degrees F. Set so close to the outside temperature, it requires very little propane to accomplish my goal even when temperatures are in the teens outside.

Planning well ahead for this, I have my van fully insulated on walls and ceiling with HaveLock wool. The metal van floor is covered with a layer of inch-think foam insulation, and that is covered with a layer of white linoleum. This combination makes my floor very soft on my knees. I cringe when I see videos of people putting hardwood floors in their vans, having seen pictures of the damage and callouses done to knees of van dwellers who must crawl over a hard floor every day. My floor actually feels good on my knees when I need to get down there for something.

I have lots of windows for light, but to keep the cold out, I cut a section of that inch-thick foam for each window. These covers are held in place by a bungee cord over each window running from top to bottom over the center of each. Then I place a two-inch-square block of wood under each bungee cord at the window's center to hold that foam insulation firmly against the glass. (Works like a charm.)

Having made all these insulation preparations -- and by keeping the temperature only a little above freezing -- the propane needed to heat my van is as insignificant as my mini electric blanket's drain on my batteries. Warmth in my van is almost free!
_________________________

But be sure to have backup ways of staying warm! I have two propane tanks so if one goes empty, the regulator automatically switches over to the second tank and shows me a red warning that the first tank is empty. (After I refil the first tank, the red warning will show when the second tank goes empty)

But what if batteries go dead and I can't run the furnace? As my furnace backup, I have a little cook stove burner connected to the same propane line, normally shut off both at the stove and at a valve on the wall.

But what if both tanks run out of propane? I doubt I'll ever let that happen; yet to be safe, I have plenty of blankets and warm clothing to put on (plus my little electric blanket to use if I still have electricity).

Cold winters should be fun, not brutal!

Don't overlook old school solutions. I am talking about the old fashioned soapstone foot warmers. Basically a slab of rock cut flat on both sides, then heated over campfire, propane, car engine, etc. Then place at the foot of the bed wrapped in a towel to keep you warm all night. Depending on how hot you get it, they can even be used to help keep a meal or cup of coffee warm. You can often pick them up from ebay or etsy for around $50, plus shipping. Also they can be bought new from the link that follows, and no, I don't work for them. Just a fan of soapstone, and heat retention is one of it's better known properties. https://vermontsoapstone.com/products/handmade-soapstone-bed-warmers/

 

[hugemoth]

A regular old heated rock works too.

 

[Nautithespian]

I just had the good fortune of two nights of 19F cold outside as I slept in my van. I say "good fortune" because it's rare to have a winter where temps ever drop into the teens even once here in Arlington, Texas. These two nights of cold were just what I needed to test my van for winter warmth, and the test was a marvelous success, requiring only a tiny amount of heating fuel.

No one uses electric heat from house batteries to heat their entire van, as the electrical drain would be tremendous, killing the batteries. But I don't need to heat the whole van, I only need heat myself as I sleep. That's the trick, focus on heating yourself, not the whole van. It only takes a tiny fraction of the electricity to heat one person, as it would take to keep an entire van warm.

View attachment 29876
So yesterday I installed this 12-volt jack on the wall right next to my bed.

View attachment 29877
I also bought this 12V electric car blanket to plug into it while I sleep. At bedtime, I set this blanket to medium and wrapped it around my chest over my T-shirt, then put on a comfortable thin-but-insulated jacket and zipped it up over the electric blanket. Then I went to bed under two regular blankets. (It's amazing how much warmer two blankets are than one, regardless of what two blankets you use.)

I also had thick socks on my feet to ensure my toes stayed warm, and insulated gloves on my hands (required by my too-easy-to-chill fingers). Then I slept in total comfort, toasty warm all over! The cold was not uncomfortable to breathe, because my body was so warm. (I cut a small slit in two of the glove fingers so I can still use the touch screen of my cell phone even with the gloves on.)

I'd been concerned I might be wrong about the power draw, and might be about to kill my house batteries before dawn. But checking the gauge in the morning, I found the pull on my batteries had only dropped them 0.2 volts. (What a relief.) Now during the day, the solar panels can bring them right back up again.

Concerned water in the van might freeze, expand, and break containers and pipes, I keep the van about 10 degrees above freezing, ensuring all water stays in the liquid state. So I have a propane furnace with a thermostat on the wall, which I set to 41 degrees F. Set so close to the outside temperature, it requires very little propane to accomplish my goal even when temperatures are in the teens outside.

Planning well ahead for this, I have my van fully insulated on walls and ceiling with HaveLock wool. The metal van floor is covered with a layer of inch-think foam insulation, and that is covered with a layer of white linoleum. This combination makes my floor very soft on my knees. I cringe when I see videos of people putting hardwood floors in their vans, having seen pictures of the damage and callouses done to knees of van dwellers who must crawl over a hard floor every day. My floor actually feels good on my knees when I need to get down there for something.

I have lots of windows for light, but to keep the cold out, I cut a section of that inch-thick foam for each window. These covers are held in place by a bungee cord over each window running from top to bottom over the center of each. Then I place a two-inch-square block of wood under each bungee cord at the window's center to hold that foam insulation firmly against the glass. (Works like a charm.)

Having made all these insulation preparations -- and by keeping the temperature only a little above freezing -- the propane needed to heat my van is as insignificant as my mini electric blanket's drain on my batteries. Warmth in my van is almost free!
_________________________

But be sure to have backup ways of staying warm! I have two propane tanks so if one goes empty, the regulator automatically switches over to the second tank and shows me a red warning that the first tank is empty. (After I refil the first tank, the red warning will show when the second tank goes empty)

But what if batteries go dead and I can't run the furnace? As my furnace backup, I have a little cook stove burner connected to the same propane line, normally shut off both at the stove and at a valve on the wall.

But what if both tanks run out of propane? I doubt I'll ever let that happen; yet to be safe, I have plenty of blankets and warm clothing to put on (plus my little electric blanket to use if I still have electricity).

Cold winters should be fun, not brutal!

I have a question.. i hope its not DUMB. .. why WOUDL anyone camp out in cold weather?.. if you are uncomfortable and need to do all this blanket , tshirt , double jackets... WOULD
it not be better to go over to warmer climates?... just curious.... dont get angry .. i hate / detest. /Cant bare. / Loathe-....cold weather and would rather sleep on the jungle floor than be cold

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Because I love it. The woods in the winter is a magical place. I see more wildlife in the winter (no place for them to hide). Nothing is quite as quiet as the forest in winter.
snowshoeing, cross-country skiing, downhill skiing, snowmobiling dog sledding, skijoring; the list goes on. No bugs or creepy crawlies.
I grew up in it, I know how to stay warm, I have clothes for it.

 

[Frood]

I have a question.. i hope its not DUMB. .. why WOUDL anyone camp out in cold weather?.. if you are uncomfortable and need to do all this blanket , tshirt , double jackets... WOULD
it not be better to go over to warmer climates?... just curious.... dont get angry .. i hate / detest. /Cant bare. / Loathe-....cold weather and would rather sleep on the jungle floor than be cold

I'm pretty much the opposite. Would rather look for more clothes to wear bundling up than get to the point where I get arrested for taking anything else off to cool down. Generally I have found it's easier to keep warm than to cool down once the temperature gets above about 95 degrees.

 

[egilbe]

There is nothing like snowshoeing or skiing in fresh snow. Keeping warm is not the problem. Staying cool enough to not sweat and soak your clothes is. Winter is the snow is special.

 

[Calypso]

I have a question.. i hope its not DUMB. .. why WOUDL anyone camp out in cold weather?.. if you are uncomfortable and need to do all this blanket , tshirt , double jackets... WOULD
it not be better to go over to warmer climates?... just curious.... dont get angry .. i hate / detest. /Cant bare. / Loathe-....cold weather and would rather sleep on the jungle floor than be cold

Well, I don’t really have a choice at the moment… it would take me five days to move to warmer climates… haha.
Sometimes I really hate the cold and dark. But it’s when one can see the Aurora Borealis, or the hare, fox, ptarmigan in their winter whites. It’s easier to get to locations on snowshoe and …
There are no bugs! Haha
BUT one must have good gear. If you don’t have the right gear, it will be miserable.

 

[CosmickGold]

My first winter in White Cloud (my van), I experimented by setting the propane furnace to 45F around the clock. I was hoping my van's thick wool insulation would keep the propane tanks healthy. But I was wrong; both 20 lb tanks of propane were empty after only three days! Actually, part of the reason they ran out is that the furnace has to constantly pull in sub-freezing air from outside to keep its flame burning strong, so the propane has to head this air first before it can make enough heat to warm the van interior. So it's not just a matter of "good insulation" (which I have), it's the furnace requirements as well.

So this winter I started out with two full tanks of propane again, and set the thermostat to 38F (only 5F above freezing), and this time, the tanks never ran out of propane all winter long; in fact, I think I'm still on the first tank!

Of course, to manage this, I slept wrapped in my mini 12v electric blanket at night. Cozy as a kitten.

 

[Frood]

My first winter in White Cloud (my van), I experimented by setting the propane furnace to 45F around the clock. I was hoping my van's thick wool insulation would keep the propane tanks healthy. But I was wrong; both 20 lb tanks of propane were empty after only three days! Actually, part of the reason they ran out is that the furnace has to constantly pull in sub-freezing air from outside to keep its flame burning strong, so the propane has to head this air first before it can make enough heat to warm the van interior. So it's not just a matter of "good insulation" (which I have), it's the furnace requirements as well.

So this winter I started out with two full tanks of propane again, and set the thermostat to 38F (only 5F above freezing), and this time, the tanks never ran out of propane all winter long; in fact, I think I'm still on the first tank!

Of course, to manage this, I slept wrapped in my mini 12v electric blanket at night. Cozy as a kitten.

Where were you staying? I use a Mr. Buddy heater in a motor home (an unfortunately large one that doesn't move much) that has piss-poor insulation and a single 20 lbs propane tank lasts 30 days or so using the heater only at night. Didn't run it when I was not inside and definitely not while asleep, and used an electric blanket while sleeping.

I ask because I'm curious as to whether it's the temperature extreme or furnace efficiency that is requiring so much propane to be used. 45 as the base temperature sounds downright frigid and 38 sounds almost painful...

 

[CosmickGold]

Where were you staying? I use a Mr. Buddy heater in a motor home (an unfortunately large one that doesn't move much) that has piss-poor insulation and a single 20 lbs propane tank lasts 30 days or so using the heater only at night. Didn't run it when I was not inside and definitely not while asleep, and used an electric blanket while sleeping.

I ask because I'm curious as to whether it's the temperature extreme or furnace efficiency that is requiring so much propane to be used. 45 as the base temperature sounds downright frigid and 38 sounds almost painful...

Very good question! I attribute the difference to two factors:
(1) You were using a Mr. Buddy, which dumps 100% of its heat right inside where you need it. I, on the other hand, use an externally ventilated propane furnace that had to keep heating the incoming 19F outside air for its flame, before it could make enough heat to warm the steel box around the flame. And then the inside van air had to be blown over that hot steel box to in turn heat the van. *Whew!*
(2) Unlike you, I left the furnace on at 45f 24 hours a day, every day, whether I was around or not.

I was parked outside Dallas, Texas during the very coldest part of the winter. Havelock wool insulates the walls and ceiling, while styrofoam lies under the floor. All that insulation greatly helps in both winter and summer, but cold still slowly finds a way in. Perhaps my windows are to blame.

 

[Frood]

Very good question! I attribute the difference to two factors:
(1) You were using a Mr. Buddy, which dumps 100% of its heat right inside where you need it. I, on the other hand, use an externally ventilated propane furnace that had to keep heating the incoming 19F outside air for its flame, before it could make enough heat to warm the steel box around the flame. And then the inside van air had to be blown over that hot steel box to in turn heat the van. *Whew!*
(2) Unlike you, I left the furnace on at 45f 24 hours a day, every day, whether I was around or not.

I was parked outside Dallas, Texas during the very coldest part of the winter. Havelock wool insulates the walls and ceiling, while styrofoam lies under the floor. All that insulation greatly helps in both winter and summer, but cold still slowly finds a way in. Perhaps my windows are to blame.

Thank you for the info! From what you just described it sounds like your furnace is to blame... The way you describe it, it seems like there are a LOT of areas where efficiency and heat are lost..

 

[Happy Camper]

Yup

 

[Todd]

Is there any place in the US where you can boondock that does not get below 32F for long? Long johns and thick sleeping bags keep us from freezing, but we need to keep our water and batteries from freezing, too!

 

[CosmickGold]

Since the wind blows rather constantly across the entire west coast coming in from the Pacific Ocean -- kept warm by the deep water -- there is very little severe cold there. I lived way up on the Olympic Peninsula near Forks for a couple of years, and it seems deep freezes just don't happen there.

Some nomads -- like the bloggers of The Nomadic Movement -- have moved to Panama because the temperatures there remain between 60F and 80F year-round!

 

[bagabum]

Is there any place in the US where you can boondock that does not get below 32F for long? Long johns and thick sleeping bags keep us from freezing, but we need to keep our water and batteries from freezing, too!

What about the Arizona area? All kinds of options, 14 day jaunts, long term, etc. etc. lot of it totally free.

 

[bullfrog]

Eventually we get caught somewhere it freezes. One reason to keep water systems simple and easy to maintain. Yuma area/Lake Havasu City area are about the warmest we have found. We have seen snow in Phoenix and Tucson. Haven’t tried Southern California / Death Valley areas.

 

[hugemoth]

Quartzsite and Bouse area in Arizona is one of the warmest areas in Arizona but it can still get cold. I've seen 16°F more than once down there.

 

[metaglypto]

A regular old heated rock works too.

Just don't pull one out of a stream and heat it in the fire. They can explode.

 

[keknittle]

I hear those diesel heaters kinda work.

Van Life in The Arctic - Part ONE - Living The Van Life