Keeping a commercial or regular title on a conversion?

[HappyLife1977]

Hubby and I are just about done w our not too fancy box to rv conversion and now we're at that crucial point. Do we change it? We have obvious rv windows. We plan to paint it in a 'to hell w stealth' style. But if we switch from commercial to RV, we have to give up our cheap insurance, as well as gain the possible police attention of being an RV. The city we live in has anti RV laws. Your RV can not be parked on your own property and visible from the street! There was a huge battle over expensive new RVs being in many of the local hospital's doctor's own driveways for covid isolation. What is the rationalization behind changing title designations? In California (where we are) an RV title raises insurance, and registration.

 

[DannyB1954]

Commercial insurance carriers will usually not cover use as an RV. Regular insurance companies will not cover commercial vehicles, (at least not here in Nevada). Most of the time RV insurance is cheaper as they assume that you use it part time. If you are full time, then the rates go way up.

When I considered doing a build with an ex bread truck, I was refused by my auto carrier. Commercial insurers wanted to know the nature of my business. They would not insure a private person. I could get a business license cheap but then if in an accident in another State they may inquire what my business was doing there. You may find an insurance carrier that will take a premium payment but then claim fraud and not pay when needed.

Rules vary wildly by State laws. I can't imagine California will make it easy for you.

 

[BelgianPup]

Check with Progressive Insurance. I've heard they are easier to work with. If they're not interested, ask them if they know a company that might be.

Ask questions. Don't try to lie to them about what you're doing -- if you have an accident and file a claim, they may refuse to pay, claiming fraud.

If you're doing a simple build, why bother to insure it as an RV? The insurance premium will probably cost more than what it would cost to rebuild it. Why not just insure it as a box truck that you camp in?

And make sure that you understand the difference between Actual Cash Value (ACV, cheaper) and Replacement Cost (RC, more expensive). An example: my brother bought a used car and was making payments. It was wrecked, and I'm pretty sure the ins. co. just paid off the rest of the loan, and Bro was left just holding an empty paper bag.

If/when you find a company to work with, also ask for the premium costs for the different deductibles, which can range from $0 to $1,000 per claim. The differences may surprise you. People may assume that having a high deductible is cheaper, when overall, it isn't.

 

[Disarrayed]

I just bought and titled a Freightliner MT55 as an RV. If it was to be titled as a regular vehicle the GVW of 25.5k would have made the personal property taxes more expensive than something titled with the normal 12M tags. Here the tags go 12M, 16M, 20M, and beyond, each time increasing in cost. With the RV tag, I think my taxes will be around $125, based on the curb weight of 19k lbs and being 20 yrs old.

 

[flylo]

If you leave it commercial you'll have to get a DOT# & post it on the door & get a chaeffers license. If the GVW was 26,001# you'd need a CDL. Also go over all the scales. I'd tag it as an RV if it were mine. Most states require you have insurance, not full coverage but liability & I get comp for deer hits, limbs falling on it, cracked windshields, etc.

 

[Freelander]

If you leave it commercial you'll have to get a DOT# & post it on the door & get a chaeffers license. If the GVW was 25,001# you'd need a CDL.

That is 26,001 lbs, and some states have a non commercial license for RV's.

 

[HappyLife1977]

Thank you, everyone. I think it would have to be based on what State the final registration is in, then?
California business licenses are insane. Last time i checked over 10 years ago, you had to pay 800$ for a business that makes 0 to 1k a year. They expect that tax money whether You profit or not.
This is a 30+ year old truck. The DMV doesnt seem to be the least interested in our DOT stickers either. When we bought it, they just took the money and handed me the reg. Next year, new plate tags, no DOT tags. Probably incompetence on their part.
The insurance was simply transfered from the previous owner.

 

[flylo]

The DOT# is Federal, Dept of Transportation. I have an 1993 Ford E350 Ambo w/the 7.3 International Diesel, 80k actual miles. I had no problem with registering & insuring w/ Progresive insurance as an RV.

 

[HappyLife1977]

The DOT# is Federal, Dept of Transportation. I have an 1993 Ford E350 Ambo w/the 7.3 International Diesel, 80k actual miles. I had no problem with registering & insuring w/ Progresive insurance as an RV.

I'll check into it, thank you!
What state, if i might ask?

 

[user 16179]

If you leave it commercial you'll have to get a DOT# & post it on the door & get a chaeffers license. If the GVW was 26,001# you'd need a CDL. Also go over all the scales. I'd tag it as an RV if it were mine. Most states require you have insurance, not full coverage but liability & I get comp for deer hits, limbs falling on it, cracked windshields, etc.

Your statement is obviously NOT universal for all states. I do not know the particulars for all states as I have no need for that info. But, I have been licensed and driven big trucks out of three states and none of my legal licenses had the word chaeffers, or even chauffeurs, on them.

 

[Freelander]

A chauffeurs license was the old name for it, before 81, or 82. I had one back in the day before the CDL was given out.

 

[DannyB1954]

Laws vary wildly by State, but they all have reciprocal agreements. If your State does not require a Class B license to drive a large RV, you can still drive it in the States that do require it. Their licence laws apply to their residents. There are Federal guidelines but each State has the option to add rules.
Each State also regulates the insurance companies that operate there. The Same insurance company may have different policies in different States. In one State a DIY RV isn't a problem, in another State it is.
If you mislead an insurance company about the vehicle's usage, when it come times for a claim, they may not pay it.

 

[Freelander]

This is the Texas Law about this, if the Gross vehicle weight rating is over 26,001 lbs it will require a Non Commercial; Class A or B license, if the GVRW is less than 26,000 lbs you don't need one. When I was living in Oklahoma a regular DL was all that was needed. You need to check with the state where your licenced is issued.

But yours may be well under the 26,001 lb limit.

NOTE: Individuals who are exempt from obtaining a CDL may still be required to obtain a Class A or B driver license if the type of vehicle driven meets the weight requirement for a Class A or B vehicle.

Individuals who are exempt from obtaining a CDL but may need a Class A or B driver license are:

• Operators of recreational vehicles driven for personal use

 

[Calaverasgrande]

When I lived in CA and later in NY recreational was cheaper than commercial for vans in terms of insurance.
In NY we are required to put a window in our cargo vans to get non-commercial rates for insurance.
So you see all these vans driving aroudn with a little 8" token window in back.
It's funny I was calling around to get a window put in my van and 20 guys had the dinky 8" round windows for $100-200. Nobody had a window with a vent at any price!
So I'm still driving around flaunting the law. Good thing cops in NC, GA and MD don't know about this law.

 

[flylo]

If the GVW is 26,001# & you go commercial you'll need a CDL which includes a physical yearly I believe. This is federal not state. Tags & insurance is way higher for commercial also at least when I had a business with several trucks. Also they won't issue a CDL# to a MH I don't think. Why not just get it titled as as MH? What's the GVW?

 

[HappyLife1977]

If the GVW is 26,001# & you go commercial you'll need a CDL which includes a physical yearly I believe. This is federal not state. Tags & insurance is way higher for commercial also at least when I had a business with several trucks. Also they won't issue a CDL# to a MH I don't think. Why not just get it titled as as MH? What's the GVW?

15,000 on the sticker, but we havent weighed it since the final clump of lumber just went in yesterday, and we have about 10 small boxes of books and mementos in storage we need to fit in. My mechanic said this morning California goes by age, length And weight now for RVs. But they count ANY truck, right down to light duty pick up as commercial. As for the switch to rv, they dont have a list of must haves that we can get a straight answer on. A police officer (whos doing the same w a cargo trailer ) said ventilation, stove, bed. How ever, my mother's little chinook pop top van had to maintain a fire extinguisher, which was good because three times, she used it to help fellow motorists.

 

[HappyLife1977]

This is as far as the DMV gets. There doesnt seem to be a list of 'habitation' requirements to meet.

 

[Freelander]

15,000 on the sticker, but we havent weighed it since the final clump of lumber just went in yesterday, and we have about 10 small boxes of books and mementos in storage we need to fit in. My mechanic said this morning California goes by age, length And weight now for RVs. But they count ANY truck, right down to light duty pick up as commercial. As for the switch to rv, they dont have a list of must haves that we can get a straight answer on. A police officer (whos doing the same w a cargo trailer ) said ventilation, stove, bed. How ever, my mother's little chinook pop top van had to maintain a fire extinguisher, which was good because three times, she used it to help fellow motorists.

What they go by is what's on the sticker. if it says GVWR is 15,000, then that is it.

 

[flylo]

GVW is Gross Vehicle Weight, Not what it weighs, what the max weight it can be including vehicle & load combined including people & fuel. The weighmasters carry scales & can weigh it on the side of the road & if you title it commercial you'll have to go thru any weigh station & over a scale. I'm in Michigan across the line where the build the crappy RVs in Elkhart, Goshen, etc. I've been in several plants, have several friends working in the RV plants & most use the cheapest material, piece work labor as they are made to use 2-3 weeks a year not live in full time. Watch this
https://drivinvibin.com/2021/05/16/rv-technician/ If it's a pickup it's not commercial in Michigan.

Here they still call it a chauffers license for 26,000# & under commercial & a CDL for over that weight.

 

[Freelander]

Also some States have a Class C CDL. I was driving a bus that held 17 passengers, (it is not a commercial vehicle if you only have 16 passengers including the driver. NOTE: You always count the driver. If you have 17 or more including the driver its a commercial vehicle) since it was under 26,000 I was given a restriction that while driving a Bus I was limited to a Class C Bus, but I still had my Class A with Air Brakes.