Job Loss--What Should She Have Done?

[PastTense]

Here is a post about a women who lost her middle class job after 30 years employment. After she lost her job in California she and her husband had 1. Several months of unemployment insurance coming. 2. An SSI check for the husband 3. An RV which someone gave to her.

Now the unemployment has run out, her husband has lost the SSI, and they are freezing in the RV in the Pacific Northwest where they moved to. They are paying $455/month campground rent (not including utilities). No running water. A toilet which works when the sewer is not frozen.

While the post and ensuing conversation is oriented toward what kind of safety net the U.S. should offer, I am interested in any thoughts forum posters have about what she should have done differently and what if anything she could do now. [I have a feeling several members of this forum have been in as bad or worse situations--but handled it much better.]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paula-e-bray/working-poor-america_b_4690675.html

 

[Lucky mike]

I dont know the type of RV they are in or its condition but I ended up losing all of it in the North east Right before winter 2 years ago.

What she did is not important Water over the dam....its time for survival to set in before its worse!!
Get out of the RV park!....if you have nothing coming in your killing what money you dont have....head for walmart!....if you have a Genny 2 hours a day gets coffee/hot meals/Heat....put that money into gas/propane and supplies for the month!!!

pick up a cheap buddy heater and a BBQ cylinder
find the food pantry.....Im sure they can help with temporary setups.
If he lost SSI....find someone to help get him back on it!!

with 2 people you only need water and dumping once a week.....find a truckstop or state park to dump and refill it will keep the cost down

buy a couple cheap solar lites or a large plumber candle for lites at nite

find every organization that can help in some way

its a nitemare but its easy to get out of if you do something just dont try to do it all at once.....start the list and go thru one at a time and at the end of the week 5 of them are in motion!

 

[user 423]

Yes, they need to check with some non-profits,social services,etc. that may have some answers for the disability appeal. If they could qualify for subsidized housing they could sell the RV and go from there. The article doesn't say if they have a car or not.

As far as doing things differently:

They might have considered how cold it would get in WA and instead moved somewhere warmer for the winter. They're located in Kalama,WA which is a pretty small place so job possibilities would be pretty limited. They would probably have a better chance at finding jobs in a bigger city but then that could be a Catch 22 since their RV park costs could be higher, too.

 

[jeanontheroad]

Sometimes an RV can be freedom, sometimes it can be a trap. When we were faced with financial disaster a couple decades ago, we climbed into the truck and pulled the trailer south, towards warm winters and ready jobs in the tourist industry (for me) while DH pursued his disability pension.

---

OK. Just read the article. You asked what she should have done. The first thing was to choose where she moved with employment potential in mind and not family ties. I know that's tough, but as she is finding, you have to consider where you can make a living. Letting your credit rating go down is deadly to getting a real job. You look unstable. Even if your life is unstable, you don't want a potential employer to see that it is. Down here in snowbird land, it is normal to live in an RV.

 

[Blue]

There's a lot of good advice above, I'd follow that but if all else failed and you've got to choose between starvation or freezing to death....

My dad taught me three magic words that will always put food in your belly, a roof over your head, and a bed under your ass...

Stick em up.

 

[sl1966]

Not that this is ideal, but they could have gone to slab city during the winters. It's rent free to stay there and they could have saved some of that money before it runs out. Some of the money they were receiving (in addition to paying for basic necessities) could have gone towards paying for some of the needed repairs.

Since all we have to go on in the article is the cost of rent and the amount of time she's been living off of benefits, that's what I'll go with ... $455 x16 months not counting utilities = $7280

It doesn't get snowy freeze to the wall cold there but it does get cold. The money they saved could have gone towards something like a Mr Buddy heater to keep warm at night. The unit is $100. Propane is averaging $3 a gallon.

I'm not sure what it would cost to replace and RV stove but they could've picked up a coleman camping stove at $50-60. Maybe a little more if they bought the adapters to rig it to the RV propane tank.

I know this, only because someone there informed me, but there's a company that will ship you the fridge you have in your RV with a working replacement in exchange and I believe a nominal fee for your old non-working one.

Despite all the farms and water in the area, it's still a desert so condensation and mold really aren't a problem there.

It's warmer there in the winter than in the Pac NW, so the insulation issue would probably be moot. I slept in my truck out there in the middle of winter with only a sleeping bag and was fine.

Solar Mike is based there and even though he doesn't work for free, does come into some great equipment and offers deals. They would've been without power for a short time until going solar.

When summer temps hit they could go to nearby higher elevation places to reside at until temps drop again.

Food stamps in CA are not hard to qualify for, at least from what I've seen. They could've saved even more money.

Doing this would have at least allowed them get the RV to a more liveable condition. Where they went after the benefits ran out is anyones guess, but they would have had some money saved.

I only say this because a friend living on disability went there (not even at my suggestion) and has avoided the very scenario in the story.

 

[jeanontheroad]

Sl1966: all kinds of detailed plans

Me: all that sounds good if you are street savvy in that way. I don't think the average middle-aged, middle class people who are suddenly jobless and homeless are going to be able to put all that together right away. They might be able to make some basic rational decisions, but they are going to have early expectations of putting their old lives back together. They won't accept dropping out of their social class as a permanent condition and will resist doing sensible thimgs that would make the slide less traumaticc.

Been there, got very lucky.

 

[sl1966]

Sl1966: all kinds of detailed plans

Me: all that sounds good if you are street savvy in that way. I don't think the average middle-aged, middle class people who are suddenly jobless and homeless are going to be able to put all that together right away. They might be able to make some basic rational decisions, but they are going to have early expectations of putting their old lives back together. They won't accept dropping out of their social class as a permanent condition and will resist doing sensible thimgs that would make the slide less traumaticc.

Been there, got very lucky.

I'm middle aged and middle class. I didn't know any of what I shared here when it happened to me. I learned all of that years after the fact. None of anything was put together right away for me either. I had the same expectations as them and wasn't willing to change my life any more than they have. The slide was cruel and painful. I watched everything I had worked for slowly slip away from me until it was all gone. My story started in CA in 2007.

So yeah, I've been there too. Luck was only part of it for me.

I'm not being judgemental towards them. This information came after I lost everything and actively made the choice to learn how to live this way long term. This happened when I was on the last six months of unemployment benefits. I lived out of a tent in various campgrounds until I caught a break. After I got back on my feet. Never again. I swore it and kept good on my word. I set myself up so that if I ever wound up in a similar situation I would have a fallback. I did that, and have even moved forward towards changing my life/career.

 

[Patrick46]

One thing the article doesn't say is what she DID for her occupation.

and YES, the carpet can get pulled out from under you, but it sounds to me like she wasn't paying attention to her own hugely changing reality.

Her husband was on disability, but lost it.
so that's it?? Game over??? (man, I'd be scrambling already at that point to either find what went wrong in the system and address that, or find some alternative source of aid. Ya never lay down and play dead...and hope for the best.)

Next, then she loses her job.
If she had some sort of master's degree, then she could have found work. Maybe it wasn't offering the same pay and/or benefits as her previous job, but I'd bet there was one out there for her. Alotta good that 'degree' did her.
"It's easier to GET a job, when you HAVE a job"...therefore, she should have taken a lower paying one until something better came along.

And then she finally ran out her unemployment, and now has nothing.
She didn't see this coming??

I'm sorry, but this reminds me of those who stand on street corners with the cardboard signs.
I've slept on the ground behind the dumpster behind K-Mart myself, and I know what homelessness is like. There were jobs I 'could' have taken, but I chose not to...because I was too frikken stubborn and too frikken lazy to be responsible enough to take those jobs. You can always do something!!

and as for small town Washington.....not very smart. What did she honestly think she'd find up there?? Another 100K job???

You NEVER make life changing decisions based purely on emotions...and now they're suffering for it.

 

[jeanontheroad]

Sl1966: luck only part of it.

Me: yes, for us, too. We faced our situation -at least enough to know that change was coming -and made decisions accordingly. We got rid of the house by choice, before the decision made for us. We headed away from family and a social environment where expectations and attitudes were making our circumstances seem worse. I had marketable skills, DH needed good medical care and retraining, and we needed to to able to live cheaply. We went to an area that had what we needed. We guarded our credit rating, for we knew that it was the ticket back if we were coming back.

Patrick: what was her major, sketchy details in story, have to be willing to take pay cut.

Me: Yes. Thirty years at a university and a masters degree that may have been useless outside of that environment. Probably a house still heavily mortgaged. An old RV that seems to have actually made their situation worse by allowing them to make a very unwise move to a small town and then trapping them there. Also, we really have no knowledge of her husband's bipolar condition besides her claim. How bad is it? Is it really disabling or can it be controlled with medication? They both seem to have made bad choices and to be unable to reverse direction and make better ones.

 

[Blue]

I dunno... somebody is cold they should have a jacket, dont have a place to sleep they should get one, needs a meal shouldent have to ask... we live in the richest country in the world, more millionares here than anywere else (though the per-capita income isnt the best) some basic things... should be provided to everybody in need regardless of the situation, otherwise... crime.

I remember they said in my human services classes... every study thats ever been done on effectiveness of community programs for the "economically disenfranchised" shows every dollar spent on aid to the poor (people living below the poverty line), saves thousands of dollars in court fees, incarceration, and ER visits... even if you dont agree people (even really really lazy people) should get some things for nothing, would you agree with it if there was a proven economic benifit to society?

 

[Unchained]

@Patrick- I think you are perhaps making a few assumptions that may be incorrect.

One thing the article doesn't say is what she DID for her occupation

I read the comments, including those from Paula. Her degree is in Sociology and she worked for a university. That is a very insular situation, so no surprise that she didn't see it coming.

and YES, the carpet can get pulled out from under you, but it sounds to me like she wasn't paying attention to her own hugely changing reality.

For those born and raised on the 'work hard, get a degree and you will always have a job' fiction (as I was), getting dropkicked into today's economic reality after 30 years in the workforce is one hell of a shock.

Her husband was on disability, but lost it.
so that's it?? Game over??? (man, I'd be scrambling already at that point to either find what went wrong in the system and address that, or find some alternative source of aid. Ya never lay down and play dead...and hope for the best.)

The article didn't say anything about that, but getting on SSDI in the first place is a long process that often involves hiring a lawyer. I can't imagine that getting back on is any easier or less expensive.

Next, then she loses her job.
If she had some sort of master's degree, then she could have found work. Maybe it wasn't offering the same pay and/or benefits as her previous job, but I'd bet there was one out there for her. Alotta good that 'degree' did her.
"It's easier to GET a job, when you HAVE a job"...therefore, she should have taken a lower paying one until something better came along.

I need to disagree here. As someone with a degree, in the past I was turned down time and again when applying for entry level jobs, despite a good resume and work history. Employers looking to fill minimum wage or no skill entry level jobs don't like to hire someone who they know will bail when something better comes along. Even worse if the applicant is older. They hit the 'overqualified' stamp and move on.

And then she finally ran out her unemployment, and now has nothing.
She didn't see this coming??

Seeing it and dealing with it are 2 different things. She saw it, but wasn't prepared to deal with it.

I'm sorry, but this reminds me of those who stand on street corners with the cardboard signs.
I've slept on the ground behind the dumpster behind K-Mart myself, and I know what homelessness is like. There were jobs I 'could' have taken, but I chose not to...because I was too frikken stubborn and too frikken lazy to be responsible enough to take those jobs. You can always do something!!

I'm going to guess that you weren't in your 50s at the time, nor with a disabled spouse. I'm not saying that you are wrong, just pointing out that not every situation is the same.

That said, an acquaintance of mine posted an entry level job opening in his company, full time at $12.50/hr in LA (maybe barely a living wage if you like soup) right around the time this lady lost her job. In 24 hours, he had over 1200 responses. About half had degrees, and one had just passed the bar exam.

and as for small town Washington.....not very smart. What did she honestly think she'd find up there?? Another 100K job???

Agreed that was a big mistake, but I doubt she was looking for 100k. She may have simply thought that their son would take them in or at least offer a place to park. Apparently not.

 

[sl1966]

My first post was in keeping with the question/spirit of the topic "What Should She Have Done?", and was only one of many possible things they could have done. They made choices which I don't think were wrong, despite it kind of turning out that way for them. Now they're really in the thick of it and on the verge of becoming a middle-aged Christopher McCandless story. I really hope it doesn't come to that and they get the help they so badly need.

I think what's really kind of sad here is that their lives have become an exercise on what would you do and/or warning for others on what not to do when "it" hits the fan.

Just my .02¢

 

[spd2918]

It is hard to say what she should have done because we know so little about what happened. Life happens; it's the choices you make after the rug is pulled that defines us.

There are no bad jobs when you are hungry. McDonald's is always hiring. I have friends that started their own contract cleaning business with nothing. Most Bipolar people can function in jobs that require little public contact. There are options if one looks.

 

[user 423]

I think what's really kind of sad here is that their lives have become an exercise on what would you do and/or warning for others on what not to do when "it" hits the fan.

Yes, sad but if it can help to keep others from making similar mistakes, then the thread is not in vain.

 

[spd2918]

I remember they said in my human services classes... every study thats ever been done on effectiveness of community programs for the "economically disenfranchised" shows every dollar spent on aid to the poor (people living below the poverty line), saves thousands of dollars in court fees, incarceration, and ER visits... even if you dont agree people (even really really lazy people) should get some things for nothing, would you agree with it if there was a proven economic benifit to society?

No, I would not agree. Dependency breeds dependency. "Entitlements" are poorly named.

It reminds me of a poster (harsh, but too often true):

The safety net should be there to help those that fall, but it should not be a hammock for generations of those that refuse to work. I know people that have worked through problems and got off all assistance. Many get through it and move on to be productive citizens. But the majority abuse the taxpayer.

 

[Stargazer]

Several thoughts came to me as I read the lady's letter to President Obama.

1. Her toilet doesn't work when the sewer line freezes. NObody's toilet works when the sewer lines freeze. Ummm...there is no "toilet" in my van. I improvise, like most of us do.

2. They use water in containers, drawn from a hose. Hmmm...that's what I do in my van. Except I don't have a hose.

3. Nowhere did I read what type of RV they have. A TT? Do they have a working tow vehicle? Is it a motorhome? Does it run? Either of these thoughts offer opportunities.

4. She is "near" her son and grandson. No help available there? Not even a floor on which to sleep?

5. Her husband is bi-polar. There are meds for that; does he take them? Are they available in their current circumstances? If not, the RV is the least of her problems, IMHO.

6. At one time, she had a house. It takes at least six months (to my knowledge) to be foreclosed.

7. She worked at a University. It doesn't say how long she worked there. She states she has worked for 30 years. But perhaps at the university only two weeks?

It is so very true that people make decisions based on their acculturation. She made what she thought were the best decisions, based on her life skills and knowledge at the time. Unfortunately, many people are not taught survival in today's world.

And most interestingly, she wrote to President Obama. I'm sure he will be right there to help her.

 

[PastTense]

There was a picture of an RV in the post:
http://i1.huffpost.com/gen/1601879/thumbs/n-PBRAY04-large.jpg

Can anyone estimate its age, length, etc?


Actually I think it is very likely that someone will help her now: hundreds of thousands have heard about her plight--it's the millions of people in similar situations who have the problems.

 

[sl1966]

Can anyone estimate its age, length, etc?

The article says it's a 27ft long. 1983 model. It looks kind of like a Bounder which were pretty popular around that time.

 

[akrvbob]

She should have done a Google search on "cheap living" and found this site and forum. People like her are why we are here.
Bob