It. Just. Dies.

[bullfrog]

Okay I'll admit it. I have been known to make holes for access to keep from pulling tanks. Just takes a minute with a panel cutter and lots of fore thought and caution. Few very short screws and strapping and the cut out piece becomes a lid. Makes it easy to check wires and power to pump. In an emergency you can hot wire the pump.

 

[29chico]

Okay, I've got a diagnosis and thought I would share it here in case there's any important feedback for me to consider before my appointment this coming Wednesday morning.

I was told to turn the key to the on position and listen for the fuel pump to run. My fuel pump is an all-in-one assembly that sits on top of the gas tank. I never really took notice of that sound before. But, I did as instructed and when it starts, I think I hear a faint hum back there. In contrast, when it doesn't start, I don't hear anything back there.

As a kind has a kind of confirmation test, it was suggested that I spray starting fluid directly into the air intake while its cranked over to see if it starts. The reasoning being if it does start then the problem is that it's not getting fuel. One of the guys from an auto parts store sprayed fluid while I crank it over and it did start and run terribly rough for about 5 seconds and then stop. He confidently declared, yep that's definitely the fuel pump.

Being as it's Saturday as I type this, there are very few places open. I called Pep Boys service center to get a quote from them and parts and labor for the fuel pump assembly replacement, which includes the fuel filter and the pressure regulator, comes to $677.

Since they have to drop the gas tank in order to get to the fuel assembly, I think it makes good sense to get that cleaned out as well. I asked the Pep Boys service center if cleaning out the gas tank was part of that cost and he said no, that's a separate fee that involves a little bit more labor time. I asked him how much and he said $105.

Now, for me, an $800 repair is quite a bit to swallow. If I have to do it then I have to do it and I will. But before I shell out 800 bucks and cry in public like a baby, I thought I'd pass along that information here to get one final round of feedback from you all.

As always, thank you all for your time and help.

When you say you got a diagnosis do you mean that you paid a real diagnostician to diagnose your problem?
Any shop is very happy when someone shows up and tells them to replace a fuel pump for $800.  They have zero liability when doing so does not fix the problem...

In my experience an electric fuel pump located in the fuel tank of a fuel injected vehicle either works or it does not if it is getting the proper electrical feed.  Not saying that a fuel pump that is actually failing cannot intermittently pump fuel but I have not heard of that happening. 

What can be intermittent is the circuit that feeds current to the fuel pump.  Plenty of possibility's there but the most likely suspect is the fuel pump relay and it's connectors.

Often the fuel pump relay's contacts in the fuse box (often, but not always found there) have gotten dirty and corroded over the years.  Sometimes just carefully pulling the fuel pump relay and replacing it a few times will fix the problem, for a while.  Pulling the pump relay and cleaning the contacts on it and the contacts that it plugs into with DeOxit would be much better.

If pulling the relay and replacing it a few times solves your problem, and it might, plan on putting a new relay in soon and cleaning the contacts that is goes into.  Often a relay that has stopped working due to it's contacts developing a high resistance over time has been damaged by the contacts heating up. 

Any decent repair manual should have the procedure to jumper the fuel pump to run for test purposes.  If you are not somewhat familiar with electricity I would watch a bunch of You Tube vids and read up on forums dedicated to your type of van before doing so.

Enough for now?

 

[SternWake]

The ASD relay is a certain possibility.


I've certainly had mine act up, and opened it up to find the contacts basically carbon blobs and rather astounded it ever was able to pass current.

The ECM switches the ground wire for this relay to energize it.

Not sure what the fuse center on a 97 looks like, but one of them is the fuel pump/Auto shut down relay and a relay can certainly go bad.

A new relay could be as low as 3$.  Also a possibility is switching the AC relay to the ASD/fuel pump relay if making a jumper wire and picking the right 2 sockets to bridge is outside ones comfort zone.


My fuel pump story is that it failed on a small town on Mex 1 in Baja, right on a tope( large speed bump)
I was nearly certain it was the fuel pump as it had gotten noisier in the recent past and I was not hearing it.  I had a nearly full can of  fuel injector cleaner on me, and I used it to start the Van and drive it off to the side of the road.

A green angel came by not long after, towed me to a local farm house, and this guy had the tools and knowledge, and the ability to drive into nearest town to get parts.

We drained about 25 gallons into a fuel tank from a chevy, dropped the 35 gallon tank, pulled the pump.  I fed it 12v directly, nothing, I flicked it with a finger and it rattled away very loudly for a minute then got super hot and stopped.

Arturo when into Ensenada, got me a new CArter pump from Autozone and the new sock and we installed it finishing at about 2 in the morning, and it fired right up.  The pump and sock were 120$, i gave Arturo 40 and a Headlamp and a Ryobi cordless drill with 2 batteries and a charger, a camp chair and a few camo tarps, and about 12 gallons of gasoline

Yes this 89 is different as it is TBI only requiring 15 PSI of pressure, not ~50PSI like a MPFI magnum engine.

Replacing 'just' the pump on MPFI is possible, but some maguyverisms might be required.  They generally say you have to buy the whole assembly as they do not sell just the pump so that one can just replace the pump in the assembly.

Next time it stalls and does not stop, leave Key to on, lay on ground under fuel tank and pound it with your fist.  You might hear it buzz to life, and if so, that there is a definitive diagnosis of a fuel pump failure.

your current pump could be fine, just is getting no power for various possible reasons.

Jumper the ASD relay terminals 87 and 30 and listen for the pump, or swap with AC relay.

Also do not run the engine a lot on fuel injector cleaner.  My O2 sensor failed shortly after I drove the van by spraying TB cleaner down the throttle body.

 

[Richard]

Hdr, bull, and chico, [and stern; apparently we were posting at the same time so I didn't see yours until after I posted this one ], thank you for weighing in so promptly.

To be to be clear, I didn't actually paid diagnostician for the diagnosis I received. It was a two-part thing. The first part was me talking to an actual mechanic, explaining my situation, and asking for any helpful insight he may be willing to share. He gave me four points to consider:

. Find & clean all the electrical ground connections.
. Crankshaft position sensor.
. Fuel pump relay.
. Inexpensive fuel pressure gauge.

He said he said to take care of all the grounds first and then to change the crankshaft position sensor. If that didn't fix the problem he recommended that I change the relay and if that didn't fix the problem then to install an inexpensive fuel pressure gauge on the dash so I could tell with your fuel pressure dropped when it stalled.

Granted it was free advice but he seemed like a reasonable person, trustworthy, and it made sense to me at least based on what little I understand so far. So, if I went to the auto parts store to pick up a new negative ground cable for the battery because I noticed what seemed to me like a lot of corrosion on The Wire going into the terminal. While in there, one of the parts store employees asked if he could help me and I explained my situation to him as I've explained it here. He said to me that if the crankshaft sensor goes it's not usually intermittent. He's also the one who suggested to me listening for the fuel pump hum with key on and trying the starter fluid approach to diagnosing. I guess I don't really know enough to tell the difference between a sound diagnosis and something that sounds good to a noob like me, LOL, and I just accepted those conclusions as if they were facts.

Between hdr's and Chico's comments about not necessarily being the pump, I'm glad that I asked here again because I'm less inclined to keep that appointment on Wednesday. I did have some basic electricity and electronics training in the Navy many years ago so I feel reasonably comfortable with the idea of hot wiring the pump.

As for the Relay, I looked at them earlier and noticed that the relay for the fuel system and a relay for the horn or the same part number so I did push each one in turn out of their sockets several times to make fresh connections and I swapped them. As it turns out the horn continue to work with the fuel relay but the van didn't start with the horns relay. So I guess that was telling me that the relay itself wasn't the problem comma but I'm not sure what else that might imply.

I also think stern might be on to something when he says the check engine light not coming on with the key on comma but coming on sometimes when I drive, is a red flag to be considered. The mechanic that I spoke to before the parts store employee reminded me that intermittent problems are difficult to diagnose if they're not misbehaving when a diagnostician is trying to explore possibilities. I actually spent 2 Days in the parking lot of the repair place hoping that the van wouldn't start so that I could run inside and say please please I have an intermittent problem and it's acting up right now can someone look at it right now? LOL but of course, all the time that I spent in that parking lot the van just started each time I tried. It wasn't until later that night that I drove in about 15 miles away to a Lowe's store park in the parking lot and when I tried to restart the van a few minutes later it didn't start at all. I spent nearly three hours in that parking lot trying to start every 15 or 20 minutes before it finally did.

I did I did price the fuel relay at around $38 and also the crankshaft sensor in about 52. I can't do anything about that until Wednesday, but I'm inclined to want to explore those lesser options before spending $800 on something that might not be the problem. Since swapping out the relay didn't fix my problem, I don't think hot wiring the pump on is going to make much of a difference. Then again, I realize better now that I don't know enough to make that kind of decision with any degree of certainty. LOL

PS- being only on my phone for internet access I've been using speech to text in order to post here. That sometimes results in very strange word choices. I try to fix them after the fact as I catch them but if anything seems confusing, please feel free to ask.

 

[stephen440]

hi just thought I would throw my two cents in I have run across that problem before on a few of them dodges turned out to be a bad ground wire simple fix just a bitch to get to .....

 

[Richard]

hi just thought I would throw my two cents in I have run across that problem before on a few of them dodges turned out to be a bad ground wire simple fix just a bitch to get to .....

Do you mean a ground wire on the fuel pump assembly anove the gas tank? Or somewhere else?

 

[GotSmart]

I had to pull my Dodge gas tank.  It was a pain, but I saved hundreds of dollars.   If you need to do that, it takes a few specialty tools.  Floor jack, and  pass through socket set.  I have a Craftsman, with extra bit extensions.  Last resort after everything else fails.

 

[SternWake]

Just in front of my gas tank there is a connector with 3 wires, and a toothed ring terminal for the ground wire which passes through this connector too. Inspect both connector and ground.

Removed this ground and file mating surfaces shiny, and retighten.

Corrosion under battery ground cable needs to be eliminated.

The Battery cables sold at AP stores are kind of junky with steel ring terminals, but are better than the corroded cable end you have now.

Buy it long and when time permits, cut off the steel ring terminals and crimp on a real ring terminal onto the sae 4 gauge.

http://www.genuinedealz.com/custom-cables/custom-battery-cable-assembly

Seems the relay swap would eliminate it and point to the fuel pump a bit stronger, but the ECM might not be sending the signal to activate the relay.

Then the jumper is required between the 30 and 87 terminal, or if you cant see any numbers but can see the wires, bridge the two thicker wires with the jumper.

The fuel pump should run continuously with jumper in place. Mine did so even with key not in ignition.

I drove around for a day and a half just removing jumper when parking and returning it when I needed to move, as my fuel pump sucks about 4 amps.

If it is a failing pcm, sometimes heating it with a hair dryer or similar could allow it to function and is kind of a diagnosis but is not a sure bet.

So Next time it stalls, wrap the gas tank hard with a fist when key is on. Does it buzz for a bit and then stop?

Cut a 3 inch length of wire, 12 awg or so, and strip 1/4 inch of insulation from both ends, shape into a U and bridge the two fatter wires on the relay receptacle or pins 87 and 30 if so marked on the relay or receptacle.

 

[Richard]

Just in front of my gas tank there is a connector with 3 wires,  and a  toothed ring terminal for the ground...

Nothing like that on mine, I'm afraid. Passenger side, mid body, looking toward the gas tank, i see this;

View attachment 10037

Following those lines running upper left, i find this 2-wire connector: (took 2 pics of same connector because no good angle available to me).

View attachment 10039

View attachment 10040

I opened this connection and found two orifices but couldn't tell for sure if they were wire or something else. Conmector had some kind of silicone-ish grommet that i assume is intended to weather-proof the connection. I felt up on top of the metal bracket that the connector is mounted to, but found no evidence of a ground wire.

Following that wire to its harness, and that harness toward the front of the van, i saw these connectors:

View attachment 10041

Didn't touch either one. Figured id let sleeping dogs sleep.

Corrosion under battery  ground cable needs to be eliminated.

Seems the relay swap would eliminate it and point to the fuel pump a bit stronger, but the ECM might not be sending the signal to activate the relay.

I swapped horn relay (know good) with the fuel flow relay (horn still worked so i assumed fuel flow relay worked) but no start. Then i swapped them back, and swapped the horn and the auto shutdown -- also no start. I again swapped back to original relay placement and just for kicks, i swapped fuel flow and auto shutdown but still no start.

Prior to all these swaps, i did the remove & reinsert shuffle on all the black relays, and also on the fuel pump relay. (See following image for relay placement).

View attachment 10042

Next time it stalls, wrap the gas tank hard with a fist when key is on.  Does it buzz for a bit and then stop?

Nope. I pounded the tank at least 7 times from the bottom, then about the same number of times from the back of the tank, then the bottom again. No sign of life.

All that said, it hasn't failed to start all day. I know it didn't magically fix itself but perhaps between all the wiggling and fist pounding, ive bought myself a little time. I bought the 12 gauge wire to try jumping the relay if necessary, and ill replace the battery negative cables a.s.a.p. to eliminate that variable.

All this exploring of possibilities may yet spare me an $800 repair cost, at least for now. Many thanks in advance if that happens to be the case  

 

[SternWake]

OK well lets rule out the relay itself.


Asssuming the fuel pump is sometimes not working, it is either failing internally, or it is not getting 12 volts those times.

The ECM/PCM might not be sending the signal to activate the ASD/ fuel relays.

This could be a failing ECM/PCM a failing/intermittent connector at the PCM,  or a possible bad ECM ground.

The Jumper wire is also a diagnostic wire.  With jumper in place the Fuel pump should run continuously.

There are model year differences so I am hesitant to proclaim any definites, you might have to jumper both ASD and fuel pump relay.

Really these weird intermittent issues are usually a failing PCM/ECM

Diagnosing their failure is easiest with a known good PCM, but that is not really an available option and usually a last resort after all else has failed.  If The hair drier heating the PCM can allow starting this can certainly point to the failing ECM.  The wire wiggling yielding no results is not a sign the ECM is not failing, only that the connector is not the cause.  The weirdness of the check engine light on yours certainly raises an Eyebrow.

The Crank position sensor is reported to fail in an intermittent nature on these Dodges, but perhaps not other vehicles.  Some Autoparts salespeople really just like to hear themselves talk, but some know their stuff.  I think these CPS is easy to access and easy to replace.  Next time it acts up replace it and if it still no workee, then you can return it.

Dropping fuel tank is not fun, and the replacement fuel pump modules are pricey, and do not have the best record of reliability.  The CEL acting funny, the wrapping of fuel tank when no start not having any effect, kind of have me leaning toward the ECM/PCM.

If the stalling/no start is becoming more frequent this can also point stronger to the ECM/PCM

I would hate to hear that you spent 80 dollars, drove off with full confidence, only to have it stall when you are out in the boonies and 800$ poorer.

Replace that battery ground cable with corrosion leaking from under the insulation.  If it is not THE issue, it will be at some point.

My ECm has a dedicated ground wire that attaches on my intake manifold, where the bracket is to hold down my Coil.  I have no Idea where your PCM is grounded, but likely to the engine block somewhere and perhaps where your coild is.  

Look up what your coil looks like on ROckAuto.  Some years they are no longer a round cylinder mounted near the distributor but a square finned box mounted near the front of the engine.

Making sure the Spark plug wires  and that wire from Coil to distributor are NOT touching each other or anything grounded, was a dealer recommended misfiring solution/fix.  SP wires can look 'just fine' and as' good as new' and be passing their spark anywhere but to the Spark plug.  Often overlooked cause of misfiring and especially so on Vans where the shape of the doghouse/engine cover acts like a heat concentrator right where the SP wires reside, and Bake them.

 

[GotSmart]

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/

 

[Richard]

Asssuming the fuel pump is sometimes not working, it is either failing internally, or it is not getting 12 volts those times.

The ECM/PCM might not be sending the signal to activate the ASD/ fuel relays.

This could be a failing ECM/PCM a failing/intermittent connector at the PCM,  or a possible bad ECM ground.

I replaced battery negative cable. Battery terminal itself was heavily overgrown with turquoise colored 'salad'. Grounds from battery to both bulkhead and engine block were quite not-shiny (no turquoise salad on either, but universally dark, dingy brown. I took a small stainless steel brush to everything until it was shiny enough for Hollywood!

The Jumper wire is also a diagnostic wire.  With jumper in place the Fuel pump should run continuously.

There are model year differences so I am hesitant to proclaim any definites, you might have to jumper both ASD and fuel pump relay.

i bought 6' of 12-gauge wire and 8 connectors. I'm ready to jump everything! Lol

Really these weird intermittent issues are usually a failing PCM/ECM

Diagnosing their failure is easiest with a known good PCM, but that is not really an available option and usually a last resort after all else has failed.  If The hair drier heating the PCM can allow starting this can certainly point to the failing ECM.  The wire wiggling yielding no results is not a sign the ECM is not failing, only that the connector is not the cause.  The weirdness of the check engine light on yours certainly raises an Eyebrow.

All this poking around I've been doing has revealed several apparent liberties that the previous owner of my van took when repairing things. For example, he removed the stock engine fan and mounted an electric fan to the radiator housing. A rocker switch has been glued to the steering column, which serves as the fan's on/off switch. It's tied into the key so that it's never on when the key is either off or in the accessory position. Smart move, it seems to me, at least relative to some less anticipatory approaches.

If the stalling resumes and hotwiring the relays proves an interim solution, I'd consider doing something similar to the fuel pump: always on when key on, but never when key off or in accessory.

The Crank position sensor is reported to fail in an intermittent nature on these Dodges, but perhaps not other vehicles.  Some Autoparts salespeople really just like to hear themselves talk, but some know their stuff.  I think these CPS is easy to access and easy to replace.  Next time it acts up replace it and if it still no workee, then you can return it.

Agreed. After trying the relay hotwire, the crankshaft position sesnor is next on the list. It's both inexpensive ($50-ish) and easily accessible (via the doghouse) so that even a noob like me should be able to solo it.

Dropping fuel tank is not fun, and the replacement fuel pump modules are pricey, and do not have the best record of reliability.

So far, the best prices I've found are a Delphi for $188 (via Autozone) and a Carquest for $185. Those both come with limited lifetime warranties (whatever those may be worth) and are substantially lower than the $264 that Pep Boys quoted me.

The CEL acting funny, the wrapping of fuel tank when no start not having any effect, kind of have me leaning toward the ECM/PCM.

If the stalling/no start is becoming more frequent this can also point stronger to the ECM/PCM

Frankly, if i could choose between PCM or fuel pump, I'd choose the PCM. It's roughly the same price as the fuel assembly, but with the added advantage of easier location access for replacement. And, unless I'm misremembering, my PCM doesn't need to be programmed so yay me!

I would hate to hear that you spent 80 dollars, drove off with full confidence, only to have it stall when you are out in the boonies and 800$ poorer.

Thanks, me, too.

Replace that battery ground cable with corrosion leaking from under the insulation.  If it is not THE issue, it will be at some point.

Did it this afternoon. One less thing to think about, right?

My ECm has a dedicated ground wire that attaches on my intake manifold, where the bracket is to hold down my Coil.  I have no Idea where your PCM is grounded, but likely to the engine block somewhere and perhaps where your coild is.

Not sure where it's grounded but here's what it looks like:

View attachment 10046

Look up what your coil looks like on ROckAuto.  Some years they are no longer a round cylinder mounted near the distributor but a square finned box mounted near the front of the engine.

It's the finned box at the front of the engine.

Making sure the Spark plug wires  and that wire from Coil to distributor are NOT touching each other or anything grounded, was a dealer recommended misfiring solution/fix.  SP wires can look 'just fine' and as' good as new' and be passing their spark anywhere but to the Spark plug.  Often overlooked cause of misfiring and especially so on Vans where the shape of the doghouse/engine cover acts like a heat concentrator right where the SP wires reside, and Bake them.

Good call. Mine are shielded with those loose-fitting plastic sleeves st the distributor cap, and then they remain separated via wire clips on their final leg to the spark plugs.

 

[SternWake]

. Battery terminal itself was heavily overgrown with turquoise colored 'salad'. Grounds from battery to both bulkhead and engine block were quite not-shiny (no turquoise salad on either, but universally dark, dingy brown. I took a small stainless steel brush to everything until it was shiny enough for Hollywood!

One might think all one has to do is wire brush off the turquoise working its way up the wire insulation.  I Mean it is still copper right?
 I could not believe when I penetrated the rock hard wire insulation on the other side of the green salad, and was unable to establish any connectivity with the battery post clamp 12 inches away.
 If the ECM is not sending out the signals to asd and fuel pump relay, manually switching these circuits might only work for so long as the ECM  perhaps continues to degrade.  Sometimes they revert to open loop programming, basically not using any sensor inputs to control spark and air fuel ratio.  MPG and power take a dump.  But you are mobile.
The ECM is obviously pretty easy to replace yourself too.  I would certainly closely inspect the connectors with a strong light and clean out all the old Dielectric grease which hides the visible oxidation within the barrel sockets.
This was my problem connector:

That was after using CRC electronics cleaner and some mini bottle brushes.
Looks pretty good right?
When I used the Caig Deoxit d5 spray on some of those tamiya precision swabs, The interiors of these sockets above, shredded about 6 swabs on the 14 sockets, turning them black, eventually gray and in the end they stayed pink from the DeOxit d5, and gleamed like freshly polished and oiled silver.  I had perviously declared the interior of this  connector pristing, yet the oxidation inside, shredded the swabs like it was 180 grit sandpaper.
You can also barely see the little arm claspers which  bend inward slightly, designed to grab the pins tightly.  these if the connection was getting hot, are not only likely oxidized but they have also likely lost some spring.
I used a small sewing needle to bend these' claspers' inward to exert more pressure on the pins.
The Caig Deoxit kit I bought had the gold and shield products along with a bunch of bottle brushes and precision swabs.  After the thorough cleaning with D5, I sprayed  the "Shield" product inside, seated the connector and then forced Dielectric grease around its edges, rather than filling the connector with dielectric grease and then seating it and having grease ooze out, perhaps forcing the sockets claspers, off the pins.

 

[SternWake]

This is my ECM. Bottom right shows size of bottle brushes and precision swabs I used to clean and polish interior of connector. In the Pic above, that is a junkyard connector. My OEM connector was not salvagable and its sockets were a horrid display of oxidation and all the step i took over the years to get broken wires at connector end back conducting where they need to be.

Near the red straw, under the liquid electrical tape, was the 14 pin connector whose contacts I resoldered.

None of those solder joints was obviously visually broken, But I remelted them and added a smidge more for the fix.

 

[stephen440]

Do you mean a ground wire on the fuel pump assembly anove the gas tank? Or somewhere else?

yes right at the fuel pump ...........

 

[Richard]

Finally, after consistently starting all day, it wouldn't start for me. I quickly fashioned a jumper wire and as soon as i installed it, a humming sound began. Turned the key and PRESTO, started right up!

Here's the workaround:

View attachment 10053

I suppose ive got to undo this when i stop drivng, right?

Also, any down side to doing this long-term?

 

[GotSmart]

So far, the best prices I've found are a Delphi for $188 (via Autozone) and a Carquest for $185. Those both come with limited lifetime warranties (whatever those may be worth) and are substantially lower than the $264 that Pep Boys quoted me.

$77 to $150 at Rock Auto.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,1996,b2500,3.9l+v6,1073999,fuel/air,fuel+pump,6256

 

[SternWake]

Good news.

As far as removing the jumper, if you hear fuel pump running with Key not in ignition, then yes you have to remove it every time you stop. Mine is a 4 amp load for 15 PSI, I imagine a pump designed for 50 PSI would consume more.

I guess you could use another switched relay in place of the jumper.
Even a 15 amp switch 'should' be enough, but I would not want to run 5 feet of hot 12AWG wire through firewall and back to fuse block just for an inline switch. I;d rather just run a thinner 18 awg ground wire through firewall to activate relay by a switch. Meaning run a fused hot right to 85 terminal and run the ground through firewall to switch the ground and activate relay by terminal 86. In case of wire chafing, switching the ground wire on a relay is safer.

I do not know if the PCM is going to go open loop and not adjust or if there will be long term damage by using a jumper or a manually activated relay.

Your misfire codes were likely from whatever driver inside the engine computer switched the ASD relay on, was giving an intermittent signal to hold relay closed.

You might be able to find a pin print out of your PCM, and determine which wire goes from PCM to fuel flow relay. I do believe they switch the ground wire. This wire or this individual wire connection at engine computer or fuse block, could be the culprit, rather than the electronic driver component inside the computer.

Can you determine which wire goes from fuel flow relay to PCM, and perhaps follow it?

Seems you already saved 800$

I have a factory service manual for my specific model year, and it has proven invaluable and a zillion times better than a haynes or chilton manual. 50$ well spent.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Chrysl...ash=item543b7127dd:g:ZbQAAOSwLF1YBQZN&vxp=mtr

 

[rvpopeye]

Well you doo'd it !
......and before spending the big bux on the pump too.....

 

[Richard]

Just a quick update.

I installed a new crankshaft position sensor just now. The jumper wasn't giving me any trouble but I wanted to put this idea to rest that the crankshaft position sensor might be interfering with the signal getting sent from the PCM to the fuel flow relay.

So, heading out on a day filled drive to see whether or not it holds up.

Oh, I first started the engine with the jumper in place to make sure I installed the crank sensor properly. Once it started correctly, I shut it off, removed the jumper and put the original relay back in place so... fun times ahead!