Is there an upper limit on the # of panels/wattage you can put on your build?

[morkani]

I have the space to put anywhere from 28-56 100 watt renogy solar panels on my build. the cost of the panels and the battery's would be acceptable to me, but there's other equipment that I need as well as I understand it. and do these pieces of equipment begin to get prohibitively expensive when you start to get into 2800-5600 watts?

Thanks

 

[barleyguy]

IMO, adding that many 100 watt panels is completely silly. For a system that big, it makes more sense to go with higher wattage panels. I'm pretty sure that a 200 watt panel is smaller than 2x100 watt panels. Something close to 300 watts is smaller than 3x100 watt panels. And you also have less wiring, which reduces the chance of issues.

If you want to stick with Renogy, they sell a 4 pack of 280 watt poly panels for around $1000 with free shipping on ebay. It's really the free shipping that is a large part of the deal, because you normally have to pay freight shipping on large panels.

As far as other things that are needed, you primarily need multiple charge controllers. You might also want to go to a 24 volt battery bank (or 12 volt in series), because that will half the number of charge controllers you need. A 50 amp MPPT charge controller at 24 volts will handle about 1200 watts of panels, so you'd need 3 of those for 3600 watts.

You also need to consider weight. A 280 watt solar panel is probably about 50 pounds, so you're looking at 600 pounds for 12 of them. You also probably want lithium batteries. A 100 ah lithium battery is in the 25 pound range, whereas a 100 ah AGM is about 70 pounds. So lithium is about 1/3 the weight.

 

[morkani]

IMO, adding that many 100 watt panels is completely silly. For a system that big, it makes more sense to go with higher wattage panels. I'm pretty sure that a 200 watt panel is smaller than 2x100 watt panels. Something close to 300 watts is smaller than 3x100 watt panels. And you also have less wiring, which reduces the chance of issues.

If you want to stick with Renogy, they sell a 4 pack of 280 watt poly panels for around $1000 with free shipping on ebay.  It's really the free shipping that is a large part of the deal, because you normally have to pay freight shipping on large panels.

As far as other things that are needed, you primarily need multiple charge controllers. You might also want to go to a 24 volt battery bank (or 12 volt in series), because that will half the number of charge controllers you need. A 50 amp MPPT charge controller at 24 volts will handle about 1200 watts of panels, so you'd need 3 of those for 3600 watts.

You also need to consider weight. A 280 watt solar panel is probably about 50 pounds, so you're looking at 600 pounds for 12 of them. You also probably want lithium batteries. A 100 ah lithium battery is in the 25 pound range, whereas a 100 ah AGM is about 70 pounds. So lithium is about 1/3 the weight.

(I'll be referring back to this thread often) Thanks so much for this info, especially about the lighter Li-ion. And I think the cost isn't much more is it? (I used to think that sealed lead acid was 1/4 the cost.)

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Do you have an electric van?

 

[morkani]

28 x100watt panels will produce 14 Kilowatts  on a good day
56 x100watt panels will produce 28Kilowatts..
What are you running, a factory?   :dodgy:

I am so glad you asked actually lol because I'm NOT certain that i've accurately measured what I need.
first...i'm working with a 26ft box truck. (if I need 56 was gonna double deck and fold out when parked).
1. unwilling to do without, gaming PC for streaming etc, with at least 3 monitors 24/7 (won't need to be 24/7 but need to allot for it if i'm doing a 24 hour stream, i've done 36 before.)
2. unwilling to do without, Air conditioning, specifically 75-76F. It's my comfort level, but also, need to keep the pc cool. I'll have more insulation that most people would but the heat from the electronics inside will make it a little more difficult to cool. 
the rest, I'm willing to adapt. I don't think they'll really use much power at all, LED tv's are comparitively low to power, same with chest freezer/fridge, even a RV washer and a small microwave, wouldn't be much to power when looking at the pc/ac scale of things. LED lights, charging phone/laptop. I can't think of much that would need a lot more power than the pc & AC

 

[morkani]

Do you have an electric van?

no

 

[RvNaut]

Ho boy.. you have some .. schooling to do..

Here is a link to *the* guy... spend the next day watching his videos and you will have the grip you need on this issue.

Forget kits.

Solar isn't really your big issue, it is battery capacity.

3 monitor gaming computer ..just as a number.. 300 watt suck so 300 watt hours x 12 hours is 3600 Watt/hours.. that is at least around $4000 in lithium batteries just to have that power available, let alone the rest of the system to support it... while I am not building the TajMahal of off grid solar.. you are.. the size of your system you will need would power an entire house...

now.. off to school with you!!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7bvIB2TPsChaaGyPfBbk-txxXqe82PK5

 

[highdesertranger]

first off you need to get a grip on how much power you actually need. you are just guessing, so,

1. get some hard numbers of your actual power needs
2. size your battery bank according to #1
3. size your solar according to #2

so you see you are jumping the gun. you are putting step three first. and yes for large systems don't use 100 watt panels.

highdesertranger

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

What HDR said!

Get a Kill-A-Watt meter and measure what you are actually using on a typical and heavy use day:
https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Ele...&qid=1597246551&sprefix=kill-a,aps,182&sr=8-5

Come back with those numbers and we can help you with options you have.

 

[morkani]

Ho boy.. you have some .. schooling to do..

Here is a link to *the* guy...  spend the next day watching his videos and you will have the grip you need on this issue.

Forget kits.

Solar isn't really your big issue, it is battery capacity.

3 monitor gaming computer  ..just as a number.. 300 watt suck so 300 watt hours x 12 hours is 3600 Watt/hours.. that is at least around $4000 in lithium batteries just to have that power available, let alone the rest of the system to support it... while I am not building the TajMahal of off grid solar.. you are.. the size of your system you will need would power an entire house...

now.. off to school with you!!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7bvIB2TPsChaaGyPfBbk-txxXqe82PK5

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]That is awsome, thanks so much. . There's so much information out there, it seems like people are making videos when they don't really know what they doing. I'm glad to have someone here vouch for some place I can learn it.
[/font]
Yea I used a killa-watt meter to size my computer needs and yea it averaged of 300 watts

 

[RvNaut]

So then add an A/C unit running at a generous 1200 watts, and some lighting and the refridge and water pump.. you are going to need a serious amount of batt storage... but it isn't anythign money and a beefier set of springs can't handle...

And yeah.. this guy is good.. knows his excrement...

have fun and come back with what the eventual system design ends up as..

 

[rokguy]

I have the space to put anywhere from 28-56 100 watt renogy solar panels on my build. the cost of the panels and the battery's would be acceptable to me, but there's other equipment that I need as well as I understand it. and do these pieces of equipment begin to get prohibitively expensive when you start to get into 2800-5600 watts?

Thanks

You could learn a lot from the Bus Grease Monkey on youtube, he has quite a comprehensive amount of videos on large solar arrays on an old Greyhond bus.

 

[barleyguy]

So then add an A/C unit running at a generous 1200 watts, and some lighting and the refridge and water pump.. you are going to need a serious amount of batt storage...  but it isn't anythign money and a beefier set of springs can't handle...

And yeah.. this guy is good.. knows his excrement... 

have fun and come back with what the eventual system design ends up as..

The first step is probably to get a really efficient AC. Mitsubishi makes a mini split that does 9000 BTUs with about 400 watts running wattage. It's $1600, but you'd probably save that much in batteries and solar over a 1200 watt RV AC.

www.ecomfort.com/Mitsubishi-MZ-FH09NA/p56553.html

Same thing with the computer actually. You can probably build a computer that uses half the power without a significant loss in performance. Start with an 80 plus gold power supply, then choose a 65 watt or 58 watt CPU, and a midrange graphics card. Should be able to get usable performance for 150 watts rather than 300. (Or switch to a gaming laptop.)

Optimizing the demand will save more than an equal amount of money on the supply.

 

[RvNaut]

A full on gaming computer can't really be built to use less power... as they tend to suck a lot of it by the very nature of what they do...

 

[barleyguy]

Not true. The power supply has an efficiency rating, and the CPU and graphics card have TDP (thermal design power) ratings that tell how much power they use. You can half the power just by choosing the right parts.

 

[RvNaut]

I have built computers for decades... a power gaming computer is going to consume a crap ton of watts.. yes you can mitigate it some by better component choice, but it still takes watts to power the processor and video systems, plus the screens.. 3 of them in his case... you cannot half the power of a high gaming computer.

 

[barleyguy]

OK, compare the power usage of these three parts:

https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-7-3700x/p/N82E16819113567
https://www.newegg.com/evga-geforce-gtx-1650-super-04g-p4-1357-kr/p/N82E16814487482
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-tx-m-series-tx550m-550w/p/N82E16817139210?Item=N82E16817139210

to these three parts:

https://www.newegg.com/evga-geforce...080ti&cm_re=1080ti-_-1FT-001K-00716-_-Product
https://www.newegg.com/core-i7-9th-gen-intel-core-i7-9700k/p/N82E16819117958
https://www.newegg.com/thermaltake-...w-600w/p/N82E16817153232?Item=N82E16817153232

The first set uses 165 watts, and the power supply wastes almost none of it. The second set uses 320 watts, and the power supply wastes about 15%, meaning wall power will be about 370 watts at load.

Yes, the second one is faster. But really only the video card. You can't have your cake and eat it too. But you CAN design a computer that's usable for gaming and streaming and uses less power.

 

[barleyguy]

So, going back to the original topic, I felt like calculating how well you could actually meet the crazy demands by optimizing the demand and then adding the supply end.

You actually can get the computer to 150 watts. I found an Intel 35 watt i7 processor, the i7 8700T. It's 6 cores, 12 threads at 35 watts. (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._cm8068403358413_core_i7_8700t_processor.html) But I think the configuration I had above may be better for streaming. With the motherboard and storage call that one 180 watts.

For computer monitors, here's an interesting page:

https://www.energystar.gov/most-eff...currentZipCode=82902&page_number=0&lastpage=0

That's the energy star list of most efficient computer monitors. Not sure how big you want. You can get 18 inch at under 8 watts, or 24 inch at under 11 watts. If you went with a 24" and two 18s and picked from that list, that would be 27 watts.

For air conditioner, you can go with a 400 watt 9000 BTU mini split, or alternatively go to a 5000 BTU window unit at about 500 watts. With the mini split you have to put the compressor somewhere outside. That would probably be the back bumper. I don't know how much you care about stealth.

Are you going to have a fridge? Anyhow, let's say 700 watt hours a day for a 12 volt compressor fridge. And then everything else will probably be absorbed in the noise, because you won't always be streaming 24 hours a day. You'll need to sleep occasionally.

So:
Computer: 180 watts times 20 hours: 3600 watt hours
Monitors: 30 watts times 20 hours: 600 watt hours
Air conditioner: 500 watts times 12 hours: 6000 watt hours
Fridge: 700 watt hours per day

Total: 11000 watt hours per day, or 11kWh.

Sun hours, December: 3 sun hours per day.

Panels needed: 11000/3, rounded up: 4000 watts
Batteries needed: 1700 AH Lithium, 1 1/2 days, to get through a cloudy day. Ideally this would be more like 3 days, which would be 3400 AH, but that's pretty extreme

Panel recommendation: Boviet 370watt from Santan Solar, $149 each, 12 panels
https://store.santansolar.com/product/boviet-370w/

Battery recommendation: Kilovault 3600 HLX, $2300 each, 6 batteries (need an even number to run at 24 volts)
https://www.altestore.com/store/dee...t-lithium-solar-battery-p41011/#KLV3600HLX-V3

Charge controllers: Victron SmartSolar 150/60TR, $540 each, 3 charge controllers
https://store.santansolar.com/produ...solar-mppt-150-60-tr-solar-charge-controller/

Inverter Samlex PST 3000-24 (the most efficient inverter I know of. Need 3000 watts so you can handle the startup of the AC): $1210
https://www.solar-electric.com/samlex-pst-3000-24-3000w-24vdc-pure-sine-wave-inverter.html

Miscellaneous wiring, fuses, breakers, etc.: $500

Total (not counting the new computer, air conditioner and monitors): About $19000
Computer parts: $800, use your existing case.
Air conditioner: $1600 for the mini split, much cheaper if you go with the smaller window unit.
Monitors: $500

Total with everything: $22000.

So, it's doable. Not cheap, but doable.

 

[highdesertranger]

I think a nuclear reactor would be cheaper and as a bonus you could heat water. highdesertranger

 

[wayne49]

Maybe gaming could be considered an addiction, when one is willing to pay/do anything to feed that need.

What about the network bandwidth required for gaming at that level? Probably need 5G.

How much heat is generated by a high end gaming set up?

Take a look at the support rigs for deployed military drone controllers. Separate generator vehicle. Air conditioning for the electronics. Communications to a plane with WiFi in the sky or to satellites. They have a way bigger budget.