Is it OK to keep charging when the LiFePo4 battery is 100% charged?

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poot_traveller

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I have one 160 watt panel, a MPPT controller, 12V DC/240V AC inverter and a LiFePo4 battery.

Should I pull the fuse between the panel and controller to stop it charging because it is already at 100%, or should I leave it and it will be OK?
 
it all depends on a combination of your BMS and charge controller

some charge controllers have settings for no float, or you can set the float so low there is no charging. then you dont have to manually do it.

there are lots of ways to extend the cycle life of a lithium battery bank/pack. but there are so many variables based on your specific cells, bms and charging system it is impossible t give a one size fits all answer.

if we knew the exact battery we might be able to tell you more accurate info
 
Look and see how many amps are going in when in float. Also you can set boost voltage lower than 14.6v so when float does happen its not already 100%.
And finally if its not a homemade lifepo4 it should have a BMS that will cut charging off.
 
everyone is just guessing if we dont know what the battery is.

is there a reason you wont tell us what the battery is?
 
With lifepo4 you can never tell if its really 100 percent unless you can monitor each cell voltage or the bms has tripped to stop charging. If you have the bulk setting on your controller to 14.6 volts, theres a good chance its not getting to 100 percent, maybe 90/95 percent especially with a 160 watt panel. Only way for the battery to get to 14.6 volts is if there is no voltage drop between controller and battery. Check the voltage on the battery terminals will give you a better idea what the highest voltage the battery is reaching. If it never reaches 14.6 volts during the time its connected to solar, then its not getting fully charge everytime. 

Just set your float setting to 13.8 volts or lower and you can keep it connected all day long. At such low voltage you might be charging at 1 amp or less which is insignificant. I have the float on my controller set to 14.3 volts and the battery is recieving "o" amps, the controller is just replacing the amps being used.

If you don't have a coulombmeter, get one. My coulombmeter is connected directly to the battery terminals, it will never show 100 percent the first time you install unless the battery terminals actually have reached that voltage. Once the battery gets to 14.6 volts (the coulombmeter is calibrated at the high end) you can now be sure that amps used is accurate as it counts the amps in/out.

Picture of my coulombmeter and also the chargery bmst8 I use. Both show 100 percent on my 220ah lifepo4 battery. Right now the battery is connected to solar controller which is producing about 4 amps, the coulombmeter shows battery is only getting less then 1/2 amp of charge power ( the other 3.5 amps is powering laptop/fans/lights). The chargery bms8t doesnt track anything less then 1 amp (it shows 0 amps charge rate) all the cells read 3.44 volts (max 3.65 for lifepo4). Even though the battery only shows a voltage of 13.8 volts, thats acceptable since it has previously reached 14.6 volts and the controller has switched to float and just replacing whats being used.

tk15 chargery.jpg
 

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Gypsy Freedom said:
it all depends on a combination of your BMS and charge controller

some charge controllers have settings for no float, or you can set the float so low there is no charging. then you dont have to manually do it.

there are lots of ways to extend the cycle life of a lithium battery bank/pack. but there are so many variables based on your specific cells, bms and charging system it is impossible t give a one size fits all answer.

if we knew the exact battery we might be able to tell you more accurate info

Thanks for the information.

It's a Ecopower (NZ brand) LiFePo4 100AH battery.
 
Lowdesertpatrol said:
Look and see how many amps are going in when in float. Also you can set boost voltage lower than 14.6v so when float does happen its not already 100%.
And finally if its not a homemade lifepo4 it should have a BMS that will cut charging off.

Yes it does have a BMS. But where does the charge go? It's no doubt a stupid question but that energy has to go somewhere, so when the BMS cuts it off, where does it go?
 
poot_traveller said:
Yes it does have a BMS.  But where does the charge go?  It's no doubt a stupid question but that energy has to go somewhere, so when the BMS cuts it off, where does it go?


Where does it go at night with nothing running or when the battery is disconnected? The BMS interrupts the connection to the battery.
 
poot_traveller said:
Sorry, silly me thinks that all LiFePo4 batteries are the same.

Here is the exact battery with details:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/ca...es/batteries-inverters/listing-2375939004.htm

thanks, let me look into this one. i sure hope you got it for less than the $950 that popped up at that site. you can get a battle born for much less than that and get a rock solid support base and warranty.

but since this is what you got, lets see what we can find out

are you down under. in oz or new zealand?
 
jonyjoe303 said:
With lifepo4 you can never tell if its really 100 percent unless you can monitor each cell voltage or the bms has tripped to stop charging. If you have the bulk setting on your controller to 14.6 volts, theres a good chance its not getting to 100 percent, maybe 90/95 percent especially with a 160 watt panel. Only way for the battery to get to 14.6 volts is if there is no voltage drop between controller and battery. Check the voltage on the battery terminals will give you a better idea what the highest voltage the battery is reaching. If it never reaches 14.6 volts during the time its connected to solar, then its not getting fully charge everytime. 

Just set your float setting to 13.8 volts or lower and you can keep it connected all day long. At such low voltage you might be charging at 1 amp or less which is insignificant. I have the float on my controller set to 14.3 volts and the battery is recieving "o" amps, the controller is just replacing the amps being used.

If you don't have a coulombmeter, get one. My coulombmeter is connected directly to the battery terminals, it will never show 100 percent the first time you install unless the battery terminals actually have reached that voltage. Once the battery gets to 14.6 volts (the coulombmeter is calibrated at the high end) you can now be sure that amps used is accurate as it counts the amps in/out.

Picture of my coulombmeter and also the chargery bmst8 I use. Both show 100 percent on my 220ah lifepo4 battery. Right now the battery is connected to solar controller which is producing about 4 amps, the coulombmeter shows battery is only getting less then 1/2 amp of charge power ( the other 3.5 amps is powering laptop/fans/lights). The chargery bms8t doesnt track anything less then 1 amp (it shows 0 amps charge rate) all the cells read 3.44 volts (max 3.65 for lifepo4). Even though the battery only shows a voltage of 13.8 volts, thats acceptable since it has previously reached 14.6 volts and the controller has switched to float and just replacing whats being used.

Mine is 100% charged, on boost charging and reaching 15.8 volts for a split second before dropping back to 14.3 volts then doing it all over and over again. It shows 7.5 amps charging from panel to battery.
 
Lowdesertpatrol said:
That actually doesnt say anything about an over-charge disconnect. Just an under-charge. May need to call someone.

Don't try and scare me. OK you did scare me enough to run outside to check the charge again for the 100th time. But this battery has a BMS which appears to have a over-charge disconnect because it gets up to 15.8 volts for a split second before dropping back to 14.3 volts.
 
Gypsy Freedom said:
thanks, let me look into this one. i sure hope you got it for less than the $950 that popped up at that site. you can get a battle born for much less than that and get a rock solid support base and warranty.

but since this is what you got, lets see what we can find out

are you down under. in oz or new zealand?

Mate, we don't use US dollars in NZ, we use NZ dollars which is similar value to the AU dollar. That battery costs $610 (US) dollars.
 
Lowdesertpatrol said:
Look and see how many amps are going in when in float. Also you can set boost voltage lower than 14.6v so when float does happen its not already 100%.
And finally if its not a homemade lifepo4 it should have a BMS that will cut charging off.

The boost charge is set at 14.3. I know that because it can get up to 15.8 v for a split second before dropping back to 14.3 v.

It's not a homemade job. Here is the battery with details:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/ca...es/batteries-inverters/listing-2375939004.htm
 
wish i could say i had better news...

ok, so from looking at the link, and some time on Alibaba and aliexpress. what you have here is where someone purchased a bunch of chineese 12v 100 ah lifepo batteries and then slapped their own "brand" on it.

they probably ordered in a bunch of something like this https://tinyurl.com/yxdrqzbm
i just mention that one as an example, the specs and case size dont quite match up. there are hundresd of these avaialable and you could spend hours going through the china import websites to try and find the one you have and it might give your more info on what is inside. but even that would be a crap shoot

based on what is available and the specs printed on the one you linked it is anyones guess as to what is actually inside that battery case

pretty confident it IS a lifepo4. other chemistries have different voltages. so that is good

there could be 4 prismatic or even pouch cells in there, or a whole bunch of small or medium sized cylindrical/pouch cells. no way of knowing unless you cut the top off and look inside.

same goes for what ever "BMS Board" they included. it is obviously a very minimal and undersized BMS board. the limit of 50 amp discharge is pretty restrictive. the cells them selves can likely handle a lot more but the bms board is the limiting factor

another aspect i find disappointing in the bms is the really low 8.4 volt discharge shut down. if you run it down that low very much you will kill it or at least seriously reduce the life cycle expectancy

it is disconcerting that they contradict them selves. they claim there is a balancer included but right on the side of the battery it says dont charge with out using a balancer? how do you add your own balancer if you dont have access to the individual cells?


i want to be clear, i dont recommend this battery, i would never install it in a customers rig, i would not even use it in my rig if it was given to me. if it was given to me i would cut it open and test out the components and probably just use the bare cells in a diy project.

but since this is what you have, here are my recommendations to help you get the most out of it

without cutting it open, you have 3 important aspects you can and should protect against

over charging, over discharging and charging below freezing (battery temp, not air temp)

to prevent over charging I would use a charger or charge controller i could set to stop charging at the 14.6 volts and then set a low float of 12.8 or even 12.5. this is at or below the nominal voltage of the cell pack and as such will essentially stop all charging but if loads draw it below that the charger/controller should kick back into bulk phase again.

to prevent over discharge i would find and install a low voltage disconnect (LVD) that is or can be set at 11.6v or even 11.7v that would be slightly higher than the recommended minimum operating voltage of 11.5v

then either be prepared to disconnect all charging sources if the batteries get below freezing or make sure all charge sources can be set to do that for you. my victron solar controllers have that option

anything you can do to keep the battery temp down during the day will improve their life span

if none of the internal connections or electronics fail, you might get some good life out of this.

this is a lot to work on and stay up with, almost as much as if you had done a DIY from scratch.

you could also just put your trust in the "company" and just hook it up to your alternator and report back to us as to how well it works and how long it lasts. you might get lucky, some have. you might not...
 
poot_traveller said:
Mate, we don't use US dollars in NZ, we use NZ dollars which is similar value to the AU dollar. That battery costs $610 (US) dollars.

yes, when i saw the web link, that is why i asked. you probably cant get the battle borns down there for $800 US$ like they can be had up here

puts you at a bit of a disadvantage
 
15.8v even for a split second is not going to be good for the battery. it might take a while to see the hurt but it could cause a problem sooner
 
Gypsy, fantastic posts!

Not to scare you but that jump to 15.8v is not good and likely means no over-charge protection. Or its acting like its trying to equalize.

Check your controller settings. Thats not usual. Turn equalization off as well as temp compensation. Set your bulk/absorb to 14.2 - 14.6v and float to 13.8v.
 
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