Intro and feeling discouraged

[Gunny]

The most we can give you is moral support and perhaps some basic ideas. Until you talk to a financial adviser or CPA with some real figures all you (and we) are doing is guesswork.

Bankruptcy may work but no matter that the President-Elect has done it four times does not not mean it is for you. It's welshing on a legitimate debt. Again, talk to someone in the know with what your income and outgo are.

My youngest daughter is living most of the time in an Outfitter Truck Camper to get away from the distractions in her dorm. Hopefully you decide to figure out a way to reduce the debt and make the move to a camper or van, I think you might like it.

I wish you well, Rob

 

[Bonanza Jellybean]

Hi everyone! I'm Kelly, 28 years old and live in WI. I have been wanting to be a full time RVer for a year now, and I'm getting discouraged. I hate for this to be in my very first post on the forum, but I am hoping some of you will have some advice or maybe you are going through something similar. 

Hi Kelly,

I think your frustration is common. Most of us spent years making a plan before we hit the road. 

I suggest you go to an RTR or van meetup and see if this life is you you. You can camp in your car or borrow a tent. You will learn a ton, meet new friends and see what it takes to live this lifestyle in person. It's much different being at a meet up than seeing it in a video. 

I know this is probably frustrating to hear but you are young and you will eventually make more money. Don't spend so much time stressing about your debt. Live simply and slowly pay it off. I was 43 before a paid off my student loans, it's a elephant that you eat one bite at a time. 

Come out, meet folks in the tribe and then see what's feasible for you. You'd be surprised by what the universe will provide, you only have to take the first step. 

Warmest hugs!

Don't ever give up on your dreams. 

Here's a photo for you that I took last night. I'm calling it Vanhenge. 

If this life is calling you, nothing will keep you from it. In this digital age it's absolutely possible to work from the road and travel.  You CAN do this.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

The most we can give you is moral support and perhaps some basic ideas. Until you talk to a financial adviser or CPA with some real figures all you (and we) are doing is guesswork.

Bankruptcy may work but no matter that the President-Elect has done it four times does not not mean it is for you. It's welshing on a  legitimate debt. Again, talk to someone in the know with what your income and outgo are.

My youngest daughter is living most of the time in an Outfitter Truck Camper to get away from the distractions in her dorm. Hopefully you decide to figure out a way to reduce the debt and make the move to a camper or van, I think you might like it.

I wish you well, Rob

Is thousands and thousands of dollars of medical expenses not legitimate? Hundreds of thousands of bankruptcies in this country involves medical debt or joblessness due to illness. So your saying that when I was disabled with $368,000 in medical expenses, that I should have died because I couldn't afford it? And I couldn't work to pay it back because of disability.  How can you say when debt or bankruptcy is appropriate unless you have deemed yourself judge, jury and executioner?  Unless you are of the belief that affordable healthcare is only a privilege for only those who can afford it? Or that a life, so miserable when saddled with debt with hardly a way to see out is mandatory? There are millions of people who are just a couple of paychecks away from financial ruin. The OP stated that she already couldn't keep up with her debt service and she knows she's going to lose her job. Telling her to skimp and save is all very good, but it sounds like there's not much of a chance she's gonna find her way out of debt anytime soon. We all have to balance the line with how we have to live financially and with our conscience. And the laws are the for everyone. They are there for a reason.

If someone has a business that goes under and the business owner owes $650,000 in debt, but is now only making $6.50 an hour (that was me, a single mother with three children, aged 4 to 11), is that a debt that is legitimate and must be paid off?  How far would you want to stretch it?  Should we reinstitute debt slavery so the self-righteous can feel better about themselves? Reinstitute debtor's prison? By not giving someone an out of overwhelming, crushing debt is unconscionable.

All I said is that she might want to consider it and speak to a professional.  Perhaps there are details that OP didn't want to disclose to the board for privacy reasons.  For you to weigh in with moral judgement without knowing the facts is inappropriate.  

Ted

 

[DannyB1954]

I think student loans became not subject to bankruptcy because many would go to school for several years, (doctors etc.), then when they got their credentials they would file bankruptcy to wipe out the debt.

An acquaintance of mine knew he was going to file bankruptcy so he bought a lot of toys on his credit card. The bankruptcy judge made him pay back all the purchases as he was clearly trying to play the system.

I believe medical expenses can be wiped clean with bankruptcy.

 

[Gunny]

Ted, you seem to want an argument and I won't be drawn into one. No, you should not be doomed to die for not being able to repay a medical debt. Taxpayers will usually pay it for you.

Owning a business and going under to the tune of $650,000? It's not part of the OP's issue. It's yours.

Don't play the single mother card on me. I raised 2 children from the ages of 6 and 3 by myself. No food stamps, free lunches or whining. I worked my ass off so don't get all pious on me. I should add no child support, mothers rights were terminated.

Take away the medical bills and I believe if you knowingly buy or charge something you should pay for it.

I recommended the OP see a financial adviser and I stand by that.

Rob

 

[ArtW]

It's interesting how folks can talk about being made a wage slave, shame the system for not helping more, and ignore fact that the system is other people, not some nameless Gov't entity, and expecting others to help more makes wage slaves of those others
The gov't doesn't generate wealth, it just redistributes it, and while the Donald Trumps of this world may be able to afford it, for a short time, it's mostly Joe the Plumber who picks up the tab

And even the rich are a finite resource

I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, I'm just pointing this out

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Kelloshot,

I am not advocating bankruptcy as the only tool as the only solution to your overwhelming debt.  I only offered advice on two fronts: don't cash in your retirement accounts, and that perhaps bankruptcy might be an option.  And, whatever you do, don't do anything without professional advice.

For most people, debt is not a moral failure. People get into debt for whatever reason-job loss, illness, overestimating the ability to pay it off,. foolish purchases, the cetera. If someone makes a legal mistake and gets into legal trouble, he pays his debt with fines, jail time, probation and whatever else.  When he's served his time and/or reparations, he's done.  But, if people are not able to get relief from debt, they will remain in debt slavery for years, and sometimes, never have hope of seeing a clear future.

There are those in our society who advocate treating debtors worse than criminals, and that is wrong.  Bankruptcy is meant for someone to make a clean slate. The United States outlawed debtor's prison in the mid nineteenth century, yet, without the possibility of legal debt relief, those who are not able to make headway against debt are now sentenced to voluntary inservitude.   When debt service is a sisyphean effort, the debtor is sentenced to a life without liberty or the pursuit of happiness.  The debt industry in America is very profitable, what business wants to give up an unending source of income? God forbid that the little guy is able to climb out from under a dung pile of debt, while the rich can get away with anything at all, screw the average person, on whose shoulders they are making their futures.

I mentioned my situation in my previous post as personal examples to exemplify a typical situation where someone who is overwhelming with debt is a "regular" person.  And, no, I didn't get child support either and yes, I was working full time at $6.50 an hour AND going to nursing school full time, and a mom with three young children.  I was working hard to regain my financial footing. I was eager to become a tax-paying member of society again. I wasn't sitting around, waiting for handouts.  And neither are millions of people who have undergone and are currently undergoing bankruptcy as a form of debt relief.  

Painting with  a broad brush that debtors seeking bankruptcy as dishonorable "welshers" is harmful to those who are earnestly trying to improve their lives.  Sure, there are those who abuse the bankruptcy system, just like there are those who abuse many other institutions , like liability law, or Medicare, or debt collection laws (another huge issue in which consumers are abused) or so many other institutions in this country. Bankruptcy laws were reformed in 2005 in order to reduce fraud. But let's not throw the baby out with the baby water, just because there are some who may be manipulating the laws. Also, unless you are privy to all the circumstances when some one declares that he is insolvent, denouncing his or her actions is cruel to those who are already knocked down to the knees with debt.

'Nuff said,
Ted

I found this little tidbit below.  

"Although the decision to file Although the decision to file bankruptcy should not be taken lightly, it is nothing to be ashamed about.  It can be the first step towards your future persoanl and financial success.  Below is a list of some great and other famous Americans who found it necessary to file bankruptcy.  All-in-all, not a bad group of people to be associated with:

Abraham Lincoln - 16th president of the Unites States- twice filed bankruptcy

Ulysses S. Grant - 18th president of the United States

Thomas Jefferson - founding father, author of the Declaration of Independence, 3rd president of the United States

William McKinley - 25th president of the United States

Dave Ramsey - self-professed “get out of debt” guru

Walt Disney - as in Mickey Mouse and Disneyland

Rembrandt Haremenszoon Van Rijn - Dutch painter

P.T. Barnum - filed for bankruptcy in 1871

Mark Twain - American author

Oscar Wilde - playwright

Henry John Heinz - condiment manufacturer famous for Heinz ketchup (my personal favorite)

Milton Hershey - founder of Hershey's chocolate

Henry Ford - automobile manufacturer

J.C. Penney - founder of the department store chain

Mickey Rooney - actor

Debbie Reynolds - movie actress and hotel/casino owner

Johnny Unitas - NFL Hall of Fame quarterback

Dorothy Hamill - figure skater, Olympian

Bjorn Borg - tennis star

Jerry Lee Lewis - rock and roll star

Burt Reynolds - shortly after his divorce from Loni Anderson

Sherman Hemsley - aka George Jefferson of “The Jefferson’s” sitcom

Gary Busey - actor

Nicholas Cage - actor

Gary Busey - actor

Nicholas Cage - actor

“Octomom” Nadya Suleman - famous procreator

Kim Basinger - actress, former wife of Alec Baldwin

MC Hammer - entertainer, musician, dancer (Hammer Time)

Willie Nelson - country music legend

Larry King - talk show host

Donald Trump - filed two separate Chapter 11 for his hotels/casinos

Mike Tyson - boxer, filed Chapter 11

Joe Lewis - boxer

Warren Sap - NFL football player

Terrell Owens - NFL football player

Leon Spinks - boxer

Stephen Baldwin - actor

Jose Conseco - MLB baseball player

Janice Dickinson, self proclaimed "first supermodel"

Vince Neil - lead singer of “Motley Crue”

Donna D'Errico, former Baywatch babe and ex-wife of Nikki Sixx of "Motley Crue"

George McGovern - former presidential candidate

John Conally - Texas governor who was injured while riding with President John F. Kennedy at the time of his assignation should not be taken lightly, it is nothing to be ashamed about.  It can be the first step towards your future persoanl and financial success.  Below is a list of some great and other famous Americans who found it necessary to file bankruptcy.  All-in-all, not a bad group of people to be associated with:

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Double post for some reason

 

[VanKitten]

Kelly,  please don't be discouraged.   I know you have heard this over and over...but you are young.   You have lots of time.

I am sending you a private message.    Maybe I can help...maybe I can offer a perspective for you.   

Remember...the road less travelled isn't going to be trampled flat and level.   It will be a challenge.  But..honestly...the only regrets I ever hear from elderly people is "I should have......".  " I couldn't have....".  "Why didn't I.....".      We only get one shot at this life...no "do overs". 

Chin up!

 

[DannyB1954]

Double post for some reason

Was worth reading twice.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I filed Bankruptcy at 28 got caught in the whole mortgage fiasco of 08, then my Dad got cancer. Quit working to help him for a year, he passed, everything else crumbled. Turns out, it was the best thing I ever did. I'm now 36 and own my home free and clear as well as my truck. I've never used, nor do I ever plan on using "credit" to purchase anything ever again. My credit score is probably crap. Don't know, don't care. Got caught in that nasty system once, never again. Paid cash for my house, cash for my truck and i'll pay cash for anything else I buy here on out.

 

[kelloshot]

Wow thanks for all the responses!

Although I would rather not file for bankruptcy, seeing as it's an intimidating term that I know very little about, and I don't know all the complex details of taking out of retirement, I will be talking with a financial adviser. I had planned to anyway but now after reading people's comments and stories, I feel I am not as adamant as I was before about taking out the money. I'm going to be completely honest with them and let them know I am open to just about anything. Right now I'd rather not divulge how much total debt I have, however, I think that there's a few different ways I could go. Even though I have a lot to think about, I feel much more relieved that there's so many possibilities.

As of right now, I am still eager to get out on the road, but I think I can manage to hold out for a while. My lease is up at the end of July, so I have a few months to decide what I want to do. I'm toying with the idea of trading or selling my car and getting a van and moving into it with my two cats. There would be some issues to figure out like would I drive it to work and still be "stealth", and making sure the cats would be ok in the hot summer weather in the van to name a couple. I think it would be great to cut out rent as an expense and save that money, or put it to my smaller debts. However, as of now I'm going to meet with an adviser and in the meantime cut down on more costs (I'm thinking of it as "practice" for living in a van/rv). Right now the biggest costs I have are rent, debt payments, and phone bill. I won't be renewing my gym membership in March, and my phone contract is up in May I believe so I was looking into cheaper alternative phone plans. I ride my bike to work in the spring/summer, and I don't eat out; I eat more whole foods like fruits, veggies, and grains (fun fact: I'm allergic to rice ) so my grocery costs are pretty low. I'm very open to different ways of cutting costs. I think no matter what, cutting down on costs is a good thing so I can't go wrong there.

Someone had asked how I'm going to make it once my job ends and I don't think I ever answered. First off, I'd like to say that I can barely cover my costs as it is, but I am hoping that by cutting out even a few things each month (netflix, current expensive phone plan, etc) I will be able to see those savings slowly accumulate. As for my job...seeing as I'm not sure when they are closing the building, I really don't know. I'm graduating in July/August so I was hoping to get a different job around then or a few months after. I think the earliest my workplace would be closing is not until 2018. But I guess they could really push it and close earlier (it's a fiasco and they aren't offering much info). They have said they will give some sort of "reward" for the employees that stay until the end. I work in a nursing home and they are planning on tearing down the current building and making a new one across town but it wouldn't be county owned anymore. So theoretically I could have a new job if I could stay with the new building. It would definitely be a pay decrease, but I am hoping to have a little bit less expenses, even if I stay renting til then.

I'd like to thank everyone who gave words of encouragement as they really helped. I seriously cannot thank everyone enough for posting, I know it seems silly, but your responses really helped me focus in and take action in the last few days.  I don't feel as hopeless or overwhelmed as I was before, even with the variety of advice I've received. Also made me feel better too

 

[Phantom Blooper]

"I won't be renewing my gym membership in March"

I won't get  into the financial debate aspect of your life or give advice.....although you are getting a lot of good advice....so pick and choose.....

However if you go urban stealth you may reconsider getting one of the cheaper gym memberships that allows you to use the facilities to work out and have access to showers.....if you don't have them in your vehicle or close to truck stops ect.

Whatever is in your horizon....Good luck!

 

[jonthebru]

I'm gonna take another tack. Begin learning the skills necessary for living out on the road. Live as a minimalist, and all that entails. Make it your top hobby. Learn about RVs and the mechanics of the kind of van or truck you are leaning towards. When it comes time for an opportunity to come your way, it will probably be something you hadn't even thought of or planned for, but you will be ready. What ever field you work in, develop it in a way that you can move or even change to a different occupation using essentially the same skill set... Lots to do, do something about it every day! Be open to different opportunities and ideas. By the way, if you take out retirement funds, the taxes taken can amount to 22 to 25%. If you borrow money, the interest could be as low as maybe 5 to 12% for an RV. With respect to the persons suggesting it, try not to declare bankruptcy, it screws things up for a few years. (Many of those on that list were wealthy so they get to choose what debt gets to be discharged in the bankruptcy. Willie kept his house on Maui for example. You are not at that level, best to avoid. There is a reasonable amount of complexity as to which direction to go, so make it a study and hobby. Slow and easy.
With respect.

 

[frater secessus]

Recently however, I have realized that even if I hold out for a few more years, I will not have enough money. My credit card and school loan debt are killing me, even though they aren’t much compared to what some people have.

I was deeply in debt a few years ago.  I used an aggressive avalanche method to pay off my student loans and credit cards.  Finished up the CCs on December's paycheck.  
Got used to living on very little;  now that it's paid off I roll that debt payment into deferred tax retirement accounts.  You can do it.