Intro and feeling discouraged

[kelloshot]

Hi everyone! I'm Kelly, 28 years old and live in WI. I have been wanting to be a full time RVer for a year now, and I'm getting discouraged. I hate for this to be in my very first post on the forum, but I am hoping some of you will have some advice or maybe you are going through something similar. 


I have wanted to try living in a van or vehicle of some kind ever since about 6 or 7 years ago when I read an article about someone living in their van. Until recently, I never thought I could do it. I discovered this community about a year ago, and was so inspired. I read everything and watched hours and hours of videos about this lifestyle. My plans were to wait a few years and hopefully have enough money saved to buy my first rig. A van or other vehicle is not an option since I have two cats, and I didn’t want to accumulate more debt by taking out a loan.

Recently however, I have realized that even if I hold out for a few more years, I will not have enough money. My credit card and school loan debt are killing me, even though they aren’t much compared to what some people have. My workplace is closing in a year or two and I wanted to be out of there by then, so I am going to school to hopefully get a better job in something that I could do remotely. My job pays well, but not enough to cover all my monthly payments on all my debt. Plus, I am starting to really despise my job. I don’t want to be worked to death. I just want to pay off my credit card debt and buy a rig and go. I have cut down costs as much as I can, believe me. I am even considering using some of my retirement funds to pay for my credit card debt/an rv. I was thinking about meeting with someone to talk about my options with that. I am just feeling very discouraged because I feel like I can’t get out of this rut unless I do something drastic, like take from my retirement funds. I’d like to add that I’ve made some extreme changes to my life in the last year in preparation for the way I truly want to live so it really sucks to be doing so much and not getting very far.

Sorry for the long post. Like I said, I’m not looking to complain I just don’t have anyone in my life who really gets this…

 

[tripper]

I have traveled with cats, they are no problem in a van, just have to have a good enclosure for the litter, meticulously clean the litter (3 times a day min), and find places for them to hang outside for a bit on a leash

 

[OutdoorFT]

Welcome. While I have no more school debt nor any cc debt, I can understand where youre coming from. I have 5 cats, adding another. Its hard to figure out a comfortable lifestyle with them plus the wife. Im not rich by any means so purchasing a rig is daunting.

 

[user 13531]

Debt..... It's a problem for sure. I'm guessing a money manager would advise pulling the savings and paying off the debt which of course just continues to grow at an alarming rate. Doesn't make sense to earn 3, 4 or 5% on a retirement account while incurring 10% to 16% on a large student loan and or credit card accounts.

Having said that, one must be sure not to go back into debt after resolving the original problem. Housing expenses are an entirely different issue. You need a place to live, taking out a loan to purchase an RV or Van or whatever to live in is not the same as running up a credit card for a vacation to Hawaii...

Bob suggests starting small. Save your money and see how things go. Trade your small starter van in for a larger van or maybe you decide you want a truck/trailer or a class "B"... It's all good and you'll be debt free except for your tiny home on wheels...

Good Luck!

 

[tripper]

To have a good life takes some time and planning.
First sit down and write out you goals in life, both short term and long term, then outline how you would like to achiever them.
High on your priorities should be to pay off your credit card, that interest rate is directly reducing your income.
After that do not get into any more debt. No financing.
Look around for a better job (don't quit the old one until you find a better one). Sometimes it is better to take a pay cut and work a much less stressful job.
Once debt is all paid off, save up for whatever rig you would like to use and spend some time getting it into traveling state. Pay the $100 or so to have a mechanic professionally inspect it before you buy, reliability is the most important. Buying from a person with meticulous maintenance records is a HUGE plus, normally older retirees take great care of their vehicles, they are also the ones who are most likely to sell an older Class B RV for example, they get too old to travel and sell their immaculate rigs.
Having a clear and positive future to work towards will go a long way in your happiness. Once you have a decently setup rig you can use those videos Bob Wells made about making money on the road.

I can say that I did not do things that way, I learned the hard way as many do. Do a lot of mini camping in the meantime, you might meet other like minded people and end up traveling with them.

 

[kelloshot]

Thank you everyone! I really appreciate your feedback!

I agree, I probably should spend some time writing down my goals and concentrating on the most important things first. It's just so easy to get overwhelmed with all the steps. I thought I had it all figured out, but I see I didn't...Your responses gave me a lot to think about.

To have a good life takes some time and planning.

I especially like this. I'm going to write it down and keep it in mind, along with everything about starting small and going from there

 

[Txjaybird]

Hello and Welcome.  I know it's a real drag to work a lot just to keep a roof over your head and your basic needs met and stil see no way to save for what you want to do.  If you are in school you probably do not have to pay or your loans while attending.  Depending on your income after school there should be times of "forbarence" or "deferment" on your loans.

When you speak of talking to someone about your options regarding paying your credit card debt and/or buying an RV I can almost bet money on you being told to pay the CC debt.  Especialy if you say you want to fulltime in a RV or Van.  Some folks just don't get it, often our families and friends don't seem to understand it either.

I'm on a so called "fixed" income.  My credit card debt is about equal to the $4,000 I owe on an Aliner trailer I recently bought.  I consider the Aliner my "escape pod".....I'm unhappy with my current living situation and although I went into debt to buy the trailer it's worth it knowing that whatever happens I can provide a roof over my head.  I've quit using my Visa and gas card.  One has zero interest until next June and the other is very low interest.  I paid over the amount due each month, however now I pay the minimum with every $$ I can spare going towards the Aliner and fixing up a tow vehicle for it. You don't say what you drive.  Is it something you can live in or out of?  Pehaps there is someway you can modify your current monthly costs to be able to go ahead and trade or buy a vehicle that could become both vehicle and housing too.

My personal experience with jobs that are ending for whatever reason is that they can come to an abrupt halt sooner rather than later.  Often when we least expect it and are unprepared financialy to deal with it.   Of course only you can determine what is the best for you to do.  You should get input and ideas here and maybe they will help you.  I hope things work out for you.

Jewellann

 

[ATrucker2]

Welcome...If your drivers license is clean you could train to get a class A CDL to drive the big trucks. Travel, get paid and learn the rules of the road. Its not as glamorous as a recruiter will make it seem but its a start. Some companies will train you for free but you'll get the crap loads until you pay your dues.

 

[mayble]

I am even considering using some of my retirement funds to pay for my credit card debt/an rv. I was thinking about meeting with someone to talk about my options with that. I am just feeling very discouraged because I feel like I can’t get out of this rut unless I do something drastic, like take from my retirement funds.

This may be a viable plan, but be sure to do your research and really crunch the numbers. 
Depending on the type of retirement account, vesting schedule, etc, you may lose more in penalties, taxes and employer matching funds than you'd save in credit card interest.  
I've seen a couple people who were dismayed at the size of the check they received when cashing out their 401(k).  10% early withdrawal, 25% taxes, and all unvested $$ gone out the window.

At least if your job is ending anyway, you won't raise any flags by asking about your options.  I recently contacted the outside accounting firm rep who handles my employer's payroll and 401(k) accounts just to ask about taxes and penalties - she didn't answer my question but instead contacted my employer.  I got called in to the big office to discuss future plans that I wasn't ready to divulge

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

I can relate to this in a lot of ways. The last 5 ... maybe 6 years have been a long hard slog to the point that I have my rig in my driveway, plates and insurance and ready to start the build in ernest ... once the snow melts.

I have no CC debt. I never qualified until fairly recently.
No student debt. I lived in a cabin out in the woods with undrinkable well water and an outhouse while in college.
My ex-wife on the other hand managed to put us (read ME) $30,000 in debt to the IRS.

If you have retirement savings (401k, etc) you can probably take out a loan against that money. Max is something like 40% of the total in the savings plan. That loan would then likely be paid back at a lower interest rate than your student loans. If you are working this is the ONLY thing that I know of that would make any sense. If your employer matches your 401k/retirement then keep doing the minimum that gets your match otherwise start putting your retirement contribution toward your debt. Since you have a known end date for this employment I would suggest planning the pay back for the retirement loan to correspond with the end of your employment no matter how difficult that would be.

Now, *IF* you can stick it out to the end when things finally close and you get laid off you will be able to collect unemployment insurance. This can give you a decent cushion between positions if you plan well. Sadly I have been on three sinking ships and have been through this several times. Best case scenario, you get a severance and then unemployment. Worst case is they go bankrupt and you don't get your last paycheck, accumulated vacation or sick leave. You still get unemployment but this sucks pretty bad. I've had it go both ways. The last time I got a job offer when we were down to 3 people. Unless you are supporting anyone else you probably wont qualify otherwise for cash assistance or food stamps. If the math works that end date for your employment might be a good time to plan to go mobile.

Be warned that if you still have debt when the employer lays you off the retirement loan may come due immediately. 

My honest advice, not being a financial advisor and knowing only what I've read about you in this post is as follows.

Start living in a van NOW. Even if it's only in your head.
Cut all of your expenses now. Turn off the cable. Settle on 1 streaming pay service. Find a room to rent in a shared house somewhere. Eat rice and beans.
Liquidate all of your possessions that won't directly help you accomplish your goals. Keep an eye on "Things" as the relate to living in a van/small RV.
Do the math about the SL's and the 401k - do what makes sense.
Every spare dime put to paying off any debt. Keep SOME rotating debt like a credit card so that you have that resource when you're ready to make the big move.


I lived my life drowning in debt for a decade. The IRS and Student loans never go away. You can get out from under it. The sooner the better. It is a trap. It is THE trap. It's how the banks make us slaves. If you're going to play that game play it to win. Anything you can do to pay off the debt do.

I wish you the very best.

 

[DannyB1954]

Buying an RV on time may make financial sense. If the payments are lower than your rent, you should be good. You don't need the latest greatest mega bucks RV. I see Class A and C going for under 5 grand all the time. http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/rvs/5931226849.html http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/rvs/5929562353 html http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/rvs/5885531770.html

Craigslist is a good place to look. There are scams there as well, so never send cash anywhere. If they can't show you the rig and title, walk away.

 

[RVtrek]

Hi everyone! I'm Kelly, 28 years old and live in WI. 

My credit card and school loan debt are killing me

I am going to school to hopefully get a better job in something that I could do remotely.

Whereabouts in Wisconsin?  My sticks-n-bricks is in the twin cities, so I'm not that far away.  Of course, right now I'm in Tucson, AZ on my way to RTR is my very incomplete trailer build.

What are you going to school for?  Is your schooling online or in-person?

Some others have suggested getting an RV and living out of it if it's cheaper than your current rent.  Although that makes sense financially, I'd strongly suggest adding winter temperatures into the equation.  If your RV is really well insulated, and you have a place to park it that's cheap, then you might come out ahead, but I know what winter is like in that part of the country, and RVs just generally don't seem to love that kind of cold.

Some other advice that I've heard before and I think makes a lot of sense, and I wish I had paid better attention to: Go Small, and Go Now.  If you're concerned about income while on the road, Bob has a good set of videos on that here.

If you sell your current vehicle, will that be enough to get a cheap van?

BTW, most financial planners will tell you to never touch your retirement funds unless it's an emergency.  Since this isn't technically an emergency, you'd be going against financial advice if you took funds out of retirement.

For other ways of saving money, ever thought of roommates, or becoming a roommate yourself?  That can help.

My job pays well, but not enough to cover all my monthly payments on all my debt.

This is really concerning.  If you have that much debt, you might need to consider bankruptcy.  Seriously, if you can't even cover your debt payments, regardless of any desire to change your living situation, you've gotta get that handled.  I think meeting with a professional is a really good idea if you're in that situation.

Sorry for the long post. Like I said, I’m not looking to complain I just don’t have anyone in my life who really gets this…

You can certainly come here, we get you!  

 

[Vacilador]

Hang in there, Kelloshot. The hotter the fire, the stronger the steel. And kudos to you for being honorable with your debt.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

I'll likely get flamed for this, but...
If you can't pay your debts while you're working, how do you think you'll be able to pay them when you lose your good job? And to incur more sudden loan debt to go to school after you lose that job? You'll be right back to where you are, but only in deeper.

Look into bankruptcy. Research it and see if it may be an option for you. When getting out of debt ain't going to happen, that's what bankruptcy is for.

If our president-elect can go bankrupt FOUR times, it shouldn't be off the table for the little guy who's been roped into the system and raped for every penny. You deserve a good life, not debt slavery (peonage).

 

[WalkaboutTed]

***from post above-my 15 minutes for editing was up***

I'll likely get flamed for this, but...
If you can't pay your debts while you're working, how do you think you'll be able to pay them when you lose your good job? And to incur more student loan debt to go to school after you lose that job? You'll be right back to where you are, but only in deeper.

Look into bankruptcy. Research it and see if it may be an option for you. When getting out of debt ain't going to happen, that's what bankruptcy is for.

If our president-elect can go bankrupt FOUR times, it shouldn't be off the table for the little guy who's been roped into the system and raped for every penny. You deserve a good life, not debt slavery (peonage).

Also, paying off debt with retirement funds is a terrible financial move. If you take money out of an IRA, you will have to pay income tax on it AND pay a 10% penulty. And if it's from Roth IRA, you have to follow specific rules or you will get hit hard from the taxman, also with penalties. If you borrow from a 401K, there is a sneaky little detail that most people aren't aware of:

From the TurboTax site:
"What happens if I have a 401(k) loan but later lose or quit my job?
Non-hardship loans against your 401(k) must be repaid within 5 years if you stay with your employer.

But if you leave the company before the 5 years are up, the loan must be repaid within 2 months of your departure.

After 2 months, any outstanding loan balance (minus any nondeductible contributions) is treated as taxable income. In addition, if you're under the age of 59½, you'll also have to pay an additional 10% early withdrawal penalty on the outstanding loan balance. Ouch!”

There's a reason why the US government exempts retirement accounts from liquid assets in bankruptcy. That money is your future. There no real why you should pay double, plus 10% penalty on what you earned in the first place.

Please, before you liquidate any retirement accounts, talk to a tax man or a bankruptcy attorney.

I know all this because I liquidated retirement accounts AND paid the taxes and penalties when I didn't have the money in the first place and then ended up going bankrupt anyway. So I spent money that I owned, then had double taxation, and then lost another 10% of the liquidated amount On TOP of everything. ON MONEY THAT I EARNED!

Ted

 

[WalkaboutTed]

One more thing-you can't discharge student debt in bankruptcy, but you can make payment plans. If your other debts are satisfied in bankruptcy, then the student debt will be easier to pay.

FWIW
Ted

 

[WalkaboutTed]

And, one more thing:

If by any chance you negotiate down your credit card debt, the credit card company reports to that amount to the IRS, and sends you a form 1099. And then you have to pay income taxes on the forgiven credit card debt. So they'll get you coming and going.

If you try to resolve your money problems with the few inadequate tools at your hands, you will stay in debt and misery for the foreseeable future. There's a reason why the rich and the "haves more" get richer and have more. It's all a game to them and you are a resource to be squeezed and exploited until you are drained. Then you will have the pleasure of a life of penury.

And don't think that the millionaires and billionaires who are all coming into office will help you in the least. There is already talk for cutting all kinds of help in the so-called safety net. I'm dreading to see what is going to happen. I feel bad for the young people (including my sons) who are not rich who will have to continue to live poorer than their parents did.
Ted

 

[kelloshot]

Whereabouts in Wisconsin?  My sticks-n-bricks is in the twin cities, so I'm not that far away.  Of course, right now I'm in Tucson, AZ on my way to RTR is my very incomplete trailer build.

What are you going to school for?  Is your schooling online or in-person?

Some others have suggested getting an RV and living out of it if it's cheaper than your current rent.  Although that makes sense financially, I'd strongly suggest adding winter temperatures into the equation.  If your RV is really well insulated, and you have a place to park it that's cheap, then you might come out ahead, but I know what winter is like in that part of the country, and RVs just generally don't seem to love that kind of co

If you sell your current vehicle, will that be enough to get a cheap van?


For other ways of saving money, ever thought of roommates, or becoming a roommate yourself?  That can help.

I live in central WI, near Wausau. Yes cold (and the heat in the summer too) is definitely an issue I have to think about. I'd love to sell/trade in my car and get a van but the temperature part would definitely have to be taken care of. Especially with the cats...As for trading in or selling the car I currently own, I believe it would be enough to cover at least half of a cheap van. My car is 2009 Toyota Yaris in case you're wondering.

I'm going to school for medical coding. Online classes with at the most one "lab" a week for a few hours. The school is within biking distance too.

As for roommates, I did live with someone up until August, but after a one bedroom opened up I took the opportunity. I was losing my sanity with that roommate. I couldn't put up with any more lying, stealing bs. I have been looking into other places with and without roommates once my lease is up in August though.

 

[kelloshot]

I can relate to this in a lot of ways. The last 5 ... maybe 6 years have been a long hard slog to the point that I have my rig in my driveway, plates and insurance and ready to start the build in ernest ... once the snow melts.

I have no CC debt. I never qualified until fairly recently.
No student debt. I lived in a cabin out in the woods with undrinkable well water and an outhouse while in college.
My ex-wife on the other hand managed to put us (read ME) $30,000 in debt to the IRS.

If you have retirement savings (401k, etc) you can probably take out a loan against that money. Max is something like 40% of the total in the savings plan. That loan would then likely be paid back at a lower interest rate than your student loans. If you are working this is the ONLY thing that I know of that would make any sense. If your employer matches your 401k/retirement then keep doing the minimum that gets your match otherwise start putting your retirement contribution toward your debt. Since you have a known end date for this employment I would suggest planning the pay back for the retirement loan to correspond with the end of your employment no matter how difficult that would be.

Now, *IF* you can stick it out to the end when things finally close and you get laid off you will be able to collect unemployment insurance. This can give you a decent cushion between positions if you plan well. Sadly I have been on three sinking ships and have been through this several times. Best case scenario, you get a severance and then unemployment. Worst case is they go bankrupt and you don't get your last paycheck, accumulated vacation or sick leave. You still get unemployment but this sucks pretty bad. I've had it go both ways. The last time I got a job offer when we were down to 3 people. Unless you are supporting anyone else you probably wont qualify otherwise for cash assistance or food stamps. If the math works that end date for your employment might be a good time to plan to go mobile.

Be warned that if you still have debt when the employer lays you off the retirement loan may come due immediately. 

My honest advice, not being a financial advisor and knowing only what I've read about you in this post is as follows.

Start living in a van NOW. Even if it's only in your head.
Cut all of your expenses now. Turn off the cable. Settle on 1 streaming pay service. Find a room to rent in a shared house somewhere. Eat rice and beans.
Liquidate all of your possessions that won't directly help you accomplish your goals. Keep an eye on "Things" as the relate to living in a van/small RV.
Do the math about the SL's and the 401k - do what makes sense.
Every spare dime put to paying off any debt. Keep SOME rotating debt like a credit card so that you have that resource when you're ready to make the big move.


I lived my life drowning in debt for a decade. The IRS and Student loans never go away. You can get out from under it. The sooner the better. It is a trap. It is THE trap. It's how the banks make us slaves. If you're going to play that game play it to win. Anything you can do to pay off the debt do.

I wish you the very best.

 Thank you for the detailed post! I especially like what you said about living in a van, even if it's just in my head. I actually read this right after you posted and immediately made up a list of things I could get rid of/go without. That got me pumped up to try and "practice" for living on the road while in my apartment. My work place has been extremely wishy-washy about the closing and is cryptic with any news. I think it's because I work for the county.  Anyway so I'm not exactly sure when they would close so in terms of taking out a loan from retirement funds would be tricky but possibly doable. Im looking into all the things people have suggested in terms of that as well. I don't want to rush and regret something. 

Also, totally agree with everything about the loans/banks making us slaves and keeping us trapped. It's one of the reasons that made me look into this lifestyle

 

[kelloshot]

I'll likely get flamed for this, but...

No not at all! I appreciate your advice believe me! I have a lot to think about and I have been feeling desperate lately so that's why I thought of the retirement funds I have. I'm glad you told me what you did because even through researching I found it mind boggling. There's so much info yet not enough. Everyone's situation is different so it's hard to find answers to specific questions without explaining your whole situation to someone. I appreciate your feedback and I will keep it in mind. I'm leaning toward leaving the money alone now and figuring out any other means possible with all these responses I got