I should not have bought a minivan

[SternWake]

My van choice was dictated by what could handle having a 9"6" surfboard strapped inside on the ceiling.

That safely eliminated all minivans.

I now have a 6'8", a 9'3" and a 9'7" all tied to the ceiling.
They are my travelling companions and bring me joy when salt water is added.

 

[Thunder Dan]

Is your focus stealth or boondocking?   If you are a boondocker, a roof tent would give you a great place to sleep without buying a different vehicle.

Waking up on top of a vehicle in a RT is a great way to start a day.  I really like mine.

I will be stealth camping in the city where I work for at least a couple more years. Maybe when I hit the road I'll look at roof tents. Thanks!

 

[Thunder Dan]

Thunder Dan, I'm considering a mini-van because of the gas mileage and would like to know what mini-van you bought. An Astro/Safari seems to have the most space but don't get that much better mpg than a full-size van. Specifically I'm looking at Ford Transit Connects. The builds that I've seen for them that have counter tops and cabinets limit the bed width to 30 inches. Do you think you could sleep on a bed that narrow?

I have a 2002 Honda Odyssey with 238,000 miles on it. It runs great. The previous owner bought it new and was very meticulous with getting it serviced. It has some paint peeling and a small rust spot on the roof at the back, the window tint on the driver and front passenger doors is peeling, but other than that it's great. It has a CD player and DVD player that both work, leather seats, two brand new tires that I bought, and two tires with plenty of tread left on them. Haha, it sounds like I'm trying to sell it to you.

I looked at an '02 Safari with AWD before I bought this one, but I couldn't get the guy to come down to a price I could afford. The lowest he would go was $3800, and the highest I could go was $3000. Bluebook was $2600, but this thing was exceptional. Inside, outside and underneath were all immaculate. I don't know if he ever sold it.

 

[Thunder Dan]

You might list it for trade for a full size van.  You might not take a hit on it.

I will mention it in my craigslist ad. Thanks for the idea.

 

[LeeRevell]

I have both a minivan and a full size van.  I have camped before in the Grand Caravan, and as folks have said, you "live out of it", not in it.  Being a big guy I cannot imagine using it for a permanent home.
The full size E150 gives considerably more room, more ceiling height (a mid top - much appreciated by us Tall Guys!), and not much more parking spot space taken.  It certainly burns more gas.  But you must decide what takes priority.  Fuel economy or space and comfort?  If doing more than just a weekend campout I want comfort.
The pre-computer full size van is easier to work on too.  My biggest heaadaches with the minivan are electrical/electronic.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I think you can live in a minivan just fine. If you are working it is a different story, but that also depends on what you do for work, if you have to haul tools it becomes a problem, if you have to dress nice all the time that may be a problem as well but if your job is casual dress not requiring any special tools I think it is very doable. What event was the catalyst for this post, what were you attempting to do that made it a no go.

 

[Thunder Dan]

I think you can live in a minivan just fine. If you are working it is a different story, but that also depends on what you do for work, if you have to haul tools it becomes a problem, if you have to dress nice all the time that may be a problem as well but if your job is casual dress not requiring any special tools I think it is very doable. What event was the catalyst for this post, what were you attempting to do that made it a no go.

I just started measuring and planning on how I would put the things in it that I want to live with, and it just wasn't working out.

Additionally, because I want to be stealth, the windows are not going to work. Even if I put covering over them, that would stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[BradKW]

Additionally, because I want to be stealth, the windows are not going to work. Even if I put covering over them, that would stick out like a sore thumb.

I saw a window van where he just painted the interior glass black...in daylight it looked like a limo tint, at night it looked like a dark van.

I saw a good analogy recently relating to vehicle size vs needs. I used to backpack a little and have friends who've done it seriously. Imagine spending a few months on the Appalachian Trail, and then moving to a mini-van. The abundance of space would feel like a luxury you wouldn't know what to do with

 

[SoulRaven]

I just started measuring and planning on how I would put the things in it that I want to live with, and it just wasn't working out.

Additionally, because I want to be stealth, the windows are not going to work. Even if I put covering over them, that would stick out like a sore thumb.

How so?

I'm in a, '04 Sienna, My windows are tinted and when I'm using light inside I place inserts in them that have duvetyne fabric facing the window. From the outside looking in it just looks like nothingness. A dark tint. The trained eye will notice you can't see straight through the windows but that's it.

I was hesitant to reply to this thread because vehicle choice is a super personal thing and if you've decided it won't work for you then I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. If you're interested in how I do minivan dwelling, though, here's the thread with pictures. My personal journey of living out of vehicles began with a vintage 2-door car, to a full size 1986 Chevy G20, and now to the minivan. I personally found the full size van did not fit in well in the places I was most comfortable parking in. It always stood out like a sore thumb. My minivan, however, never has.

Minivans are definitely a sacrifice on space. But for urban stealth, in certain areas they can be hard to beat and I feel it's one of their greatest advantages.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I just started measuring and planning on how I would put the things in it that I want to live with, and it just wasn't working out.

Additionally, because I want to be stealth, the windows are not going to work. Even if I put covering over them, that would stick out like a sore thumb.

I am just curious what you want to live with? living in a van is one step up from backpacking, and many people like Bitty manage and have found solution to just about anything. I think Bitty is right about stealth in a city with a minivan, nothing can beat them.

 

[BigT]

To the OP...

I just spent the last two weeks sleeping in my Transit Connect for work, and I can truly appreciate what you're feeling.  Prior to this long-term use, I only used the van for camping trips.  It rocks for camping, but I now find that it simply won't do for full-time living in.  I wish it weren't so, but there's just not enough room for everything, and I don't even have the cabinets taking up extra floor space.  

Once I install the bed, toilet, 3-gallon water bottle, cooler and a few bins of stuff, I'm full up!  It only took a couple of days of sponge baths to have me seriously missing a "real" shower, and my diet suffered terribly.  I was eating healthy, but not much variety.  
Now I'm back to looking at full-size vans or maybe a Roadtrek.  Having a stand up shower with a fan in the ceiling sounds positively luxurious. 

 

[One Awesome Inch]

When I started out, I very seriously considered a minivan. Then I went to a wrecking yard and checked out a few in person. My immediate thought was "no way!". I've been in a standard Ford e150 since July and will be moving into my new to me Chev Express hightop just as soon as I can. For a true minimalist I believe a minivan CAN work as all one really needs to store is food and clothes. However being a musician I have a few other 'necessities' which I use on a regular basis as well as my milkcrate of tools. Besides food and clothes you need a one burner stove, a cooler, a water jug, a heater (with its propane tank) and really thats about it for necessities other that some a small amount of toiletries and dishware.

The two main reasons I chose the fullsize van is 1. Comfort - I knew without a doubt I would be more comfortable in a full size van 2. Its really not THAT much more $ in mpg. In my situation being 100% urban and not driving much my fuel costs might be $50 more a month in a fullsize vs minivan. To me $50 is something I'd pay without complaint for more combfort.

Finally, there is a guy on youtube "minivan vince" who lives in a honda odyssey and he seems to be making it work for him... so some people can do it.

 

[Thunder Dan]

When I started out, I very seriously considered a minivan. Then I went to a wrecking yard and checked out a few in person. My immediate thought was "no way!". I've been in a standard Ford e150 since July and will be moving into my new to me Chev Express hightop just as soon as I can. For a true minimalist I believe a minivan CAN work as all one really needs to store is food and clothes. However being a musician I have a few other 'necessities' which I use on a regular basis as well as my milkcrate of tools. Besides food and clothes you need a one burner stove, a cooler, a water jug, a heater (with its propane tank) and really thats about it for necessities other that some a small amount of toiletries and dishware.

The two main reasons I chose the fullsize van is 1. Comfort - I knew without a doubt I would be more comfortable in a full size van 2. Its really not THAT much more $ in mpg. In my situation being 100% urban and not driving much my fuel costs might be $50 more a month in a fullsize vs minivan. To me $50 is something I'd pay without complaint for more combfort.

Finally, there is a guy on youtube "minivan vince" who lives in a honda odyssey and he seems to be making it work for him... so some people can do it.

I watch Vince and I watch your channel. I was set on a full size van until I saw Vince get the Honda. Then I thought I could do it, too, but I was wrong. I like your videos, look forward to seeing more.

 

[Thunder Dan]

To the OP...

I just spent the last two weeks sleeping in my Transit Connect for work, and I can truly appreciate what you're feeling.  Prior to this long-term use, I only used the van for camping trips.  It rocks for camping, but I now find that it simply won't do for full-time living in.  I wish it weren't so, but there's just not enough room for everything, and I don't even have the cabinets taking up extra floor space.  

Once I install the bed, toilet, 3-gallon water bottle, cooler and a few bins of stuff, I'm full up!  It only took a couple of days of sponge baths to have me seriously missing a "real" shower, and my diet suffered terribly.  I was eating healthy, but not much variety.  
Now I'm back to looking at full-size vans or maybe a Roadtrek.  Having a stand up shower with a fan in the ceiling sounds positively luxurious. 

I feel ya.

 

[ascii_man]

I am just curious what you want to live with? living in a van is one step up from backpacking, and many people like Bitty manage and have found solution to just about anything. I think Bitty is right about stealth in a city with a minivan, nothing can beat them.

I'm pretty sure that Thunder Dan is a lot larger than Bitty, who has posted elsewhere that she and her boyfriend are both under 100 pounds (in case you couldn't tell by their respective usernames). In a tight space, things like "can sleep transversely" add up quickly.

This is a very useful thread for the community; Reddit especially is plagued by people who buy a "van" which is an Astro minivan and people here talk about a Transit Connect like it's about the same thing as a Transit, when it clearly isn't. Obviously we all would prefer the stealth, fuel economy, ease of acquisition, and affordability of minivans; I seriously considered a Dodge Grand Caravan. But I realized that it's just not enough space to eliminate most of the issues I would have sleeping in my hatchback.

 

[SaltySeaWitch]

I'm pretty sure that Thunder Dan is a lot larger than Bitty.  In a tight space, things like "can sleep transversely" add up quickly.

That is a very good point. I'm 5'1 and could probably have managed in a mini van because I'm small. I just bought my mini bus and I'm looking at it thinking it's huge in there. I could live in something half that size really and still have plenty of space to be comfy. Not sure I would go mini van even with that but if I had to, I could make it work. If I were taller though, and larger, I can see that choice being miserable. I say sell the mini van and get a full sized van.  Be happy.

 

[SoulRaven]

When I started out, I very seriously considered a minivan. Then I went to a wrecking yard and checked out a few in person. My immediate thought was "no way!". ..... For a true minimalist I believe a minivan CAN work as all one really needs to store is food and clothes. However being a musician I have a few other 'necessities' which I use on a regular basis as well as my milkcrate of tools. Besides food and clothes you need a one burner stove, a cooler, a water jug, a heater (with its propane tank) and really thats about it for necessities other that some a small amount of toiletries and dishware.

A few quick things I should note--in my Sienna I haul my full size guitar everywhere (I really should go smaller, it's too big for my body let alone the minivan, but haven't got around to it yet). I carry about 6 gallons of potable water with me in various water jugs, and a refrigerator, not to mention the house battery and electrical panel and everything. And while my tool collection isn't very large yet, I do keep a toolbox with me. Not mentioned is the oodles of medications and other medical paraphernalia I need to keep on hand, which I keep planning to write a post on because it takes up so much space and I've had to get really organized with it all.

Of the things you listed, what I don't have is a propane setup, heater, or cook system. For heat I generally run the van for a bit, and since it's designed to blast heat into the back too this strategy works better than it did with my full size G20. Getting a cook system to safely work inside the minivan is going to be tricky but I'm leaning towards the microwave route.

I just wanted to mention these things because I definitely carry a lot more than just food and clothes, though admittedly not everything that makes most of the rest of you so comfy.

I'm pretty sure that Thunder Dan is a lot larger than Bitty, who has posted elsewhere that she and her boyfriend are both under 100 pounds (in case you couldn't tell by their respective usernames).  In a tight space, things like "can sleep transversely" add up quickly.

Yes! Not under 100 pounds added together, just to clarify, heh...but yes, it makes a huge difference. I'm trying to re-do the bed and I keep recalculating the inches to fractions of an inch to find the precise balance of room on the bed to living space. One inch either way makes a palpable difference.

I also just want to mention in general I'm kinda uncomfortable being referenced as any sort of shining example of making life in a minivan work. I feel I've made it work because I had to--it was more a survival thing than anything else. I'm progressively making it more and more comfortable. The winter months reverted to total survival mode, and the heat of summer will do the same, but on the inbetween days now I have days where I'm fairly comfortable--IF I manage to be a stickler about keeping to the organization. I tell my therapist I feel I'm genuinely developing OCD because I've learned bad things absolutely do happen if anything is out of place. E.g. a few things fell on the floor and I suddenly have no clear floor at all, put my foot down anyway and something breaks...now my foot is bleeding, no light, and where's the med kit dammit it fell in the trash can again! I could give oodles of similar examples.

So yes, I'm making it work, but I'm pretty stressed out doing it. Not saying it cannot be done comfortably, but if a fulfilled happy life in a minivan is what you're looking for I'm not the example to use, at least currently. With each improvement it's getting a little more comfortable!

One example of why I stay with it...the last ER trip had me completely wiped out for a few days, couldn't speak more than a couple words, couldn't sit up, couldn't eat. Boyfriend had to take care of me for a few days. Not only did the minivan not get moved, the curtain didn't even get put up between the front seats and the back! In bed, my head was just behind the passenger seat looking out the passenger seat window. And we were parked inside a school zone. Counting the ambulance trip and those days of recovery after, my minivan was there for I think 4 days straight. No trouble from anyone whatsoever, not even a second glance. With how often similar things happen I find that level of inconspicuousness is absolutely necessary for me.

When a similar thing happened with the Chevy G20 parked 48 hours straight near apartments, I woke up to a conversation outside my van of a couple reporting my van as abandoned. The apartment serviceman they reported it to then called in the tow truck. I peeked out the windows and then quickly drove away when no one was looking and before the tow truck arrived. I had had a 103 degree fever just the night before and had an emergency medical procedure the day before that, and was driving away from the one person at the time who could care for me. Not a good situation.

Just trying to point out that while I have compelling reasons to choose a minivan for my situation and it's the vehicle that's worked out the best for me by far, there are specific reasons why (this, crime, and parallel parking in Seattle are the big ones) and if those same reasons don't apply to others the reduced space might not be worth it. For me, where I'm at and in my situation, I willingly trade comfortable space for peace of mind.

Hope I didn't hijack your thread Thunder Dan, I just wanted to make sure the information is out there!

I say sell the mini van and get a full sized van.  Be happy.

I agree. There's no points for making yourself miserable!

 

[ascii_man]

Yes! Not under 100 pounds added together, just to clarify, heh...but yes, it makes a huge difference. I'm trying to re-do the bed and I keep recalculating the inches to fractions of an inch to find the precise balance of room on the bed to living space. One inch either way makes a palpable difference.

I also just want to mention in general I'm kinda uncomfortable being referenced as any sort of shining example of making life in a minivan work. I feel I've made it work because I had to--it was more a survival thing than anything else. I'm progressively making it more and more comfortable. The winter months reverted to total survival mode, and the heat of summer will do the same, but on the inbetween days now I have days where I'm fairly comfortable--IF I manage to be a stickler about keeping to the organization. I tell my therapist I feel I'm genuinely developing OCD because I've learned bad things absolutely do happen if anything is out of place. E.g. a few things fell on the floor and I suddenly have no clear floor at all, put my foot down anyway and something breaks...now my foot is bleeding, no light, and where's the med kit dammit it fell in the trash can again! I could give oodles of similar examples.

So yes, I'm making it work, but I'm pretty stressed out doing it. Not saying it cannot be done comfortably, but if a fulfilled happy life in a minivan is what you're looking for I'm not the example to use, at least currently. With each improvement it's getting a little more comfortable!


Just trying to point out that while I have compelling reasons to choose a minivan for my situation and it's the vehicle that's worked out the best for me by far, there are specific reasons why (this, crime, and parallel parking in Seattle are the big ones) and if those same reasons don't apply to others the reduced space might not be worth it. For me, where I'm at and in my situation, I willingly trade comfortable space for peace of mind.

Hope I didn't hijack your thread Thunder Dan, I just wanted to make sure the information is out there!


I agree. There's no points for making yourself miserable!

Great post, Bitty. I really respect what you're doing, but it's important to point out the challenges that might make another another person decide to just keep an apartment. Another thought is that in addition to being small, you have the advantage of staying in a very mild climate: in other regions, you would need space to install a more serious heating (and possibly cooling) system.

 

[SoulRaven]

Great post, Bitty.  I really respect what you're doing, but it's important to point out the challenges that might make another another person decide to just keep an apartment.  Another thought is that in addition to being small, you have the advantage of staying in a very mild climate: in other regions, you would need space to install a more serious heating (and possibly cooling) system.

Definitely. Relatively mild climate, though I don't snowbird and in winter we do get cold snaps that stay below freezing for a week or two here. Summers do get heatwaves in the 90's, though most of the time it's not like that and it's the lack of shade that's killing me.

If someone with my degree of health had an apartment that was safe for them I definitely wouldn't advise vandwelling. Just before I was forced to start living in a vehicle completed the 3 month process for the state to decide I definitely require a caregiver for basic daily necessities. That's while living in a house! Unfortunately, while I was approved for 120 hours a week, they say it must be in a house/apartment or an RV with full plumbing, bathroom, and kitchen. Otherwise, despite irrefutable proof that I need a caregiver and contacts willing to fulfill the role, they refuse to approve it. Solely due to living situation.

Another reason I'm a bad example. I can't fully care for myself in a house, it's no surprise when I can't in a van either!

 

[Goshawk]

Finding the best combination of amenities , space, reliability, stealth, economy is always going to be a trade off. Make a discussion matrix and give weight to each factor. What you cone out with is the best for you and not anyone else. Would say there are at least five and up to ten independent factors in deciding a mobile living platform.