How quickly things change !

[Clan Graham]

Wow ... Middle Class to homeless in two months ! I would have never believed it, had it not happened to me. I am almost crippled with a bad ankle, and have been working from my home for the past 5 years. But the screwed up economy has simply killed my small businesses, and I no longer earn an income from this. My wife has worked for 17 years in the medical industry, and was the primary bread winner this past 5 years. She was working happily until 3 months ago, until she suddenly fell so ill that she could no longer stand over two hours per day. She was diagnosed with fast onset Dercum's disease ... An incurable, lifelong disease, so painful it is rated only second to cancer.<br><br>And all of this is why we bought a full sized school bus yesterday. This will now be our permanent home from now on. And this is why I have joined this forum. I NEED all of the advice and information I can get! So here is what we are dealing with :<br>Very little money ... very little. No income other than unemployment for my wife (if she is approved for it).<br>We plan on insulating the walls of&nbsp; the bus, adding a ventless propane heater, a $600 generator, lighting, and flooring. We have all of the furniture, and home belongings we need. At first we will not have anything but the generator for electricity. We want to later add solar panels on the roof for our power.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; When we complete it, we will be moving in it to the beautiful coastal woods near the beach in Northern California. We will need advice on dealing with the damp cold, and general dampness. It never gets over about 80 degrees there, so no AC will be needed.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The kind of things I need to know is ... Is the 30,000 BTU ventless propane wall heater the best way to heat our bus ?&nbsp; That is, for the same $350 this heater will cost us.<br>Wood flooring or carpet in the damp conditions ?&nbsp; And sooooo many more questions.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; So please ... we are open to any and all advice you can offer. We are very limited on budget, so please remember this, and may all of you be well !

 

[tc112969]

Hi Clan, I'm very sorry to hear of your misfortunes. You came to the right place for advice. The members here are wonderful and full of valuable information. I'm new to this&nbsp;and don't know much yet&nbsp;but I'm sure you will be getting a lot of help and support. Just wanted to say hello and good luck.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tom

 

[Willy]

&nbsp;Hello there!<br>&nbsp;I'd forgo the ventless heater for something that IS vented. If you're in a humid climate, the extra humidity can very well make things rather 'fuzzy'. Get one of the old style (no electricity needed) vented convection style furnaces.. and used ones can be had rather cheaply. Add a 12v computer fan, hooked up to a thermocouple, to force air past the burn chamber, and the efficiency becomes greater. <br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;Carpet, unless it's removable, isn't a good idea. It WILL end up getting wet, and just get nastier 'n nastier. Go through the posts on the forum and you'll find more than ya probably wanna know about near every aspect of mobile living on the cheap. ..Willy.

 

[Patrick46]

WOW....that's gonna be a huge change...but if you approach it with the right mindset, this could turn out to be a wonderful experience for you two. (at least I hope it is)<BR><BR>first, YES, ix-neigh on the carpet. I'm a huge fan of wood flooring, like Pergo or other laminate flooring.<BR>Glue and nail&nbsp;this down over a plywood sub-floor, and you're good to go. Throw a few 'throw rugs' around to warm up the place. Clean up time is then a snap...shake out the rugs, and sweep the place out.....DONE!!<BR><BR>next, I'd consider a wood fireplace. It'll keep you warm, the esthetics are great, and it'll keep the humidity at bay. (I LOVE 'EM!!!)<BR><BR>here's a few websites to give you some inspiration...<BR><BR><A href="http://www.skoolie.net/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.skoolie.net/</A>&nbsp;a&nbsp;great&nbsp;forum for school bus conversions<BR><BR>also check out... <A href="http://www.housetrucks.com/maindex.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.housetrucks.com/maindex.html</A>&nbsp;Roger has put out an incredible book&nbsp;about housetrucks and busses, and for what you're undertaking,&nbsp;I HIGHLY recommend it!!!<BR><BR>Good luck with everything you have on your plate. (like I said....WOW!!)<BR><BR>Please keep us posted on how everything's working out, as I'm sure alot of us would like to share anything we can.

 

[Clan Graham]

I thank all of you for the kind replies ! It is indeed a HUGE change for us, but one we have embraced as a new and exciting challenge. We went through the doom and despair .... then pulled ourselves up and decided to make the very best of it. Now we are excited to see just how well we can learn this challenging and new lifestyle. <br><br>I love wood flooring too !&nbsp; But it sure seems cold in that climate. I guess rugs will have to be the trick for us.<br><br>I wanted a wood burning heater as well, because we love the cracks and pops of burning wood. But when we looked into buying one, we found even the smallest and cheapest of them were near a thousand dollars !&nbsp; But a propane wall heater is only $350 for a really nice one. Can someone please expound on why the propane heater would not be a good idea ? I could always vent it. <br><br>Willy said "<span id="post_message_1279186652">Get one of the old style (no electricity needed) vented convection style furnaces" ... can someone please lead me to a photo or link for these ? I'm afraid I do not know what this kind of heater is exactly.<br><br>Also ... we are going to paint the ceiling, but would love to know what kind of paint would be best for this.<br><br>I originally thought I would simply drill a hole in the sheet metal walls below the windows, and simply spray in those spray cans of expanding foam for insulation ... Until I found out how expensive that would be !&nbsp; I guess I will have to remove those panels, and install something like that foam board insulation. Any suggestions here ?&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks again for your help !</span><br><br>

 

[Clan Graham]

Oh yes ... I found the really neat Skoolie.net site ... but I guess they are no longer accepting new people on their forums, because NO email address seems to be good enough to get past their registration application ... sigh.

 

[Clan Graham]

I guess I should have included this ... I understand I will get the most information from reading these forums extensively, but unfortunately time is not on my side in our time of crash course learning. So while I WILL be reading all that I can, time makes it necessary for me to ask direct questions. I sure do not intend to get on anyone's nerves with my questions. Please be patient, as we are just so very new to this. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">

 

[cygvan]

i can empathize with you. keep your head up. and take no prisoners.

 

[Unchained]

Welcome to the forum, CG, and sorry to hear about your troubles. That said, you seem to have the right attitude to make it in this lifestyle. <br>Don't be afraid to ask questions, most here are very helpful. That said, the search function is also great for finding fast answers, esp when many of the east coast folks are already parked for the night and snoozing <img src="/images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><br><br>As you are likely going to have to pare your stuff down, it would be helpful to start making a list of 'must keeps'. This will allow you to make some cash for the conversion by selling off the things that you won't be bringing on the bus. A yard sale is a good way to get rid of the rest at a profit. Also, start checking around for free or discounted stuff that you can use (craigslist has a 'free' section that sometimes has good stuff). Construction projects/ contractors sometimes have small amounts of insulation, paint or other materials leftover that they cannot use and will give you if you ask.<br><br>On the damp (and rain), you might consider making the first room behind the driver's seat a 'mudroom' with linoleum flooring and wall hooks. Easy to clean and will keep muddy footwear and wet outwear out of the living quarters. As others said, nix the carpet and go with wood or parquet-look flooring, and I would also insulate the floor underneath it. Throw rugs will also help, and can be shaken out as needed and laundered occasionally to kill mold spores. Just keep the fuzzy slippers within easy reach for cold mornings <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><br><br>Good luck!

 

[Clan Graham]

Wow Unchained ... Thank you for the wonderful information. Thus far, I have been rather afraid of pulling up the flooring to insulate. Sounds like a huge job.

 

[Unchained]

You may not have to pull it up. The floors on busses are very solid, just not well insulated. With a little creativity, you could plug the bolt holes where the seats were then lay rigid insulation (framed), subfloor and then flooring on top of what is already there. Still a pain, but I can tell you from experience with trailers that not insulating the floor will suck enormous amounts of heat from your living space, costing extra $$$ and working your heater overtime. Also, stepping from a warm bed onto an uninsulated floor in January has it's own WOW factor... and not in a good way!

 

[Willy]

&nbsp;There are 2 problems with ventless propane furnaces. The first is moisture. For every pound of propane burnt, 1 pound of water vapour is released into the atmosphere. Without a vent, that all stays inside with you. Yup, you can open vents 'n such, but then ya take an efficiency 'hit', and the damp air isn't necessarily removed from your rig. The second problem arises from CO/CO2 and O2 depletion. Up here, in Canada, ventless heaters are illegal to use as a primary heat source in an RV, and that's why. With the old style vented convection heaters, the flame is contained inside a burn chamber which draws combustion air from outside and the exhaust <em>also</em> goes outside. I'll dig something up to show ya, but it's late and I'm tired. ..Willy.&nbsp; &nbsp;

 

[Unchained]

Hey Willy<br>Spot on. I've lived in California's coastal areas (central), and the LAST thing you want is more 'wet' in your rig when the fog is rolling over!

 

[stude53]

<a onclick="toggleTooltip('',document.getElementById('divMemberMenu2219442'),this); return false;" href="/profile/2219442" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Clan Graham</span></a>,<br><br>If you Google "converting a bus on a shoestring",&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br><br>You will find a book on this subject. I've never read it, but it certainly sounds like it would apply to your situation.<br><br>Hope this helps, and welcome to this forum.<br><br>Bob

 

[wagoneer]

welcome clan yes just say"NO" to carpet you will thank everyone in a few months plywood garage paint and area rugs get a good broom while your at it. I have lived in the california central coast for 59 years. My question is Where will you park your bus it cost big bucks to park in view of the ocean unless you are way up north. I would have a vented wood fire . Do you have any pictures of the inside/outside is the top rounded/flat school bus or? Taking this on will keep you sane. Think before making any major decisions.

 

[Patrick46]

I was also wondering...are you kids gonna be traveling alot in your bus, or will it be parked in one main spot most all the time??<BR><BR>This&nbsp;will influence the way you plan you build. Certain things can be added to make life ALOT more comfortable if you're not going to be on the road much.

 

[Willy]

&nbsp;As an aside, depending on availability/price, you can pick up an old camper/trailer/RV just for the parts. I've done this many times and have saved considerable bux. The older 9+ foot campers seem to be particularly undesirable, given the prevalence of small trucks and emphasis on fuel economy, and people are often GIVING them away! You'll end up with plenty of high dollar or useful parts, and can often profit by selling what you don't need on Craigslist. ..Willy.

 

[Clan Graham]

"<hr class="post_date_divider" size="1"><span id="post_message_1279188216">&nbsp;

There are 2 problems with ventless propane furnaces. The first is moisture. For every pound of propane burnt, 1 pound of water vapour is released into the atmosphere. Without a vent, that all stays inside with you. Yup, you can open vents 'n such, but then ya take an efficiency 'hit', and the damp air isn't necessarily removed from your rig. The second problem arises from CO/CO2 and O2 depletion. Up here, in Canada, ventless heaters are illegal to use as a primary heat source in an RV, and that's why. With the old style vented convection heaters, the flame is contained inside a burn chamber which draws combustion air from outside and the exhaust <em>also</em> goes outside. I'll dig something up to show ya, but it's late and I'm tired. ..Willy.

<br><br>That's an awesome explanation Willy !&nbsp; Thanks for this great info. I will definitely forgo the Propane heater then. &nbsp; </span>

 

[Clan Graham]

Wagoneer, Patrick46 and others ... you have asked where I will park the bus, about my children, and what plans I have for placing the bus. I guess my back story was a bit lacking in info LOL. <br><br>We will be living in the Ft.Bragg, Mendocino area. We lived here back in 2001, and fell absolutely in love with the people in this area. It is a GREAT community of a lot of ex-hippies. Which is to say, a lot of good people willing to help others. The entire community is great about helping it's own. Judgement is generally not an issue there. <br><br>So this is hopefully our first piece of hope. We will not have the funds to park in RV parks or on the beach there, and that is just fine with us. We hope to get there, introduce ourselves as new and permanent members of their community, and get the word out that we want to integrate and become helpful, and willing members of said community. We plan on visiting the coffee shops and speak easy places, and become known as good quality people that cares about others.<br><br>As far as where we park, hopefully we can locate some places. If not, we will most likely drive 10 miles to the east, and park down some of the many logging woods in the mountains, then driving in to town daily. Once we get to make friends in the community, we want to put up flyers and get the word out, that we are looking for a piece of land to park our bus ... maybe someone who owns a lot of acreage, will allow us to put our bus on the back of their property, out of sight. The ultimate would be to find someone to sell us an out of the way ( non prime ) lot that we can rent to own. Fat chance I know, but it is all we have at this time, and most likely forevermore. <br><br>The main reason we were middle class, but now have nothing to show for it ( savings ) is because we just finished helping our youngest child graduate college. We tapped ourselves, thinking we had plenty of time left. This is why we are in such dire straights now, even though a few months back we made good money. We will NEVER regret putting our kids through school, but it did leave us broke and near homelessness, once my wife became too sick to work any more. <br><br>Our bus is an 85 full length Blue Bird, with the rounded ceiling, and no seats ( already removed ) . It is VERY clean inside, so that is a plus. I will gladly post some photos in a few hours.<br><br>Ahh, the flooring :&nbsp; The issue I see with framing in a floor ( insulated ) with a sub floor, is ceiling height. I am 6' 1", and adding much more than about an inch to the floor height will not allow me head clearance. I wonder if I can pull up the floor and insulate under the existing floor ? I AM definitely planning on making some kind of temporary, portable skirt to seal off the bottom of the bus ( think siding ) ...<br><br>And lastly ... I am very impressed with this forum so far. You guys seem to be really great people with big hearts, and willing souls. Thanks for being good and genuine in a world that seems to often trend toward the negative and sullen. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><img src="/images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">

 

[Clan Graham]

Oh yeah ... our kids are no longer in the nest ... Just us two old birds in the bus LOL.