How much is too much to pay for a van?

[JRRNeiklot]

So, I've been scouring Craigslist for a camper van.  I have zero carpentry skills, so I need a finished product.  Every van I've seen, the owner is asking WAY over market value.  Now, I realize the book value is most likely for a stock van that hasn't been turned into a living space, but, since I'm new at this, I have absolutely no idea how to value a van.  For instance, I'm looking at a 1990 Ford E350 diesel.  Oddly enough, the diesel engine lowers the value by 20%.  According to NADA, it's worth $3251.  Oddly enough, the diesel engine lowers the value by 20%.  So, tricked out with bed, stove, etc, it should be worth more, but how much?  He's asking $10,000, which seems to be way too much, in my opinion.  That's only one example of many.  How much over book value is a fair price?

Thanks.

 

[Van-Tramp]

It depens on too many factors to really answer your question, but 10k is too much for a 1990 no matter what. Well provisioned : 6-8k tops.

 

[user 423]

....I'm looking at a 1990 Ford E350 diesel. 

I don't know if you're just using the Ford as an example but if you're thinking of buying a diesel van you should research what the maintenance costs may be for one that is 30 years old.

Maybe it's 20% lower in the NADA listings because that year the diesel engines Ford used were flawed.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I don't know if you're just using the Ford as an example but if you're thinking of buying a diesel van you should research what the maintenance costs may be for one that is 30 years old.

Maybe it's 20% lower in the NADA listings because that year the diesel engines Ford used were flawed.

It's the 7.3.  Everything I've read online is overwhelmingly positive on that motor.

 

[John61CT]

A "fair" price is purely subjective.

Market value is arrived at by actual transactions, factors like time and place, demand and supply all have their influence.

If you have plenty of time and are very motivated to get a bargain, it will likely take a lot of time and effort, maybe traveling a long way.

If you have plenty of money you can afford to cut down on the time required by paying a bit more.

And luck does come into it.

 

[JD GUMBEE]

It's the 7.3.  Everything I've read online is overwhelmingly positive on that motor.

Make sure you have done the math on how many miles you will drive and how long you are going to need it to run.
Diesel also means a 3/4 or 1 ton chassis.
This is not always a better thing.
If you are going to be doing a camper van without towing anything behind it, in that vintage...the 300 (or "4.9") inline 6 is the master engine to look for.
Keep in mind that while a diesel is a longer-lasting option, lord help you if you need to repair it. Check on a "long block" for the 7.3 then look at the install cost.
Not to mention costlier tires/shocks/brakes/suspension parts. Everything about diesel costs like hell.
In nearly all cases, it is more cost effective to stick with gasoline.
With the fuel differential, the MPG becomes a non-issue most of the time. (not to mention no starting issues in the cold)

Do you want super basic/stealth like this:
https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/d/converted-chevrolet-astro/6500079749.html

...or something more like this?
https://swv.craigslist.org/rvs/d/1996-ford-e250-turtle-top/6495748281.html
Knowing what you want/need will help others to help you.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Do you want super basic/stealth like this:
https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/d/converted-chevrolet-astro/6500079749.html

...or something more like this?
https://swv.craigslist.org/rvs/d/1996-ford-e250-turtle-top/6495748281.html
Knowing what you want/need will help others to help you.

The first link is dead, and the second is probably a scam.  In my experience, on Craigslist, most ads with one image are phishing scams.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Here is the van in question:

https://knoxville.craigslist.org/rvs/d/1990-ford-e350-stealth-van-rv/6498398606.html

 

[user 423]

That is a pretty slick old Ford. I'm curious as to what it weighs.

Looks like a 3kw or even 4kw genset (heavy; may be overkill for your needs).

It's only a 5-digit odometer so it may be way over 42k miles.

Can't tell for sure but it looks like the solar panel is pretty small.

Mercedes Benz stereo must be jacking up the price....

 

[JRRNeiklot]

That is a pretty slick old Ford. I'm curious as to what it would weigh.

Looks like a 3kw or even 4kw genset (heavy; may be overkill for your needs).

It's only a 5-digit odometer so it may be way over 42k miles.

Can't tell for sure but it looks like the solar panel is pretty small.

Yeah, the solar system is crap.  And it looks like the odometer has been rolled back, though why someone would bother on a 30 year old vehicle with a 5 digit Odometer is beyond me.  Can't tell if it's 40k or 400k.

 

[user 423]

^
It's built for a lot of travelling, so maybe 142k or 242k. Is he the original owner?

 

[JRRNeiklot]

^
It's built for a lot of travelling, so maybe 142k or 242k.  Is he the original owner?

According to the video, he bought it from an elderly gentleman drove it to Colorado once a year to visit his daughter.  A variation on the "little old lady" drove it to church once a week paradigm.

 

[JD GUMBEE]

Does TN have yearly inspections?
If so, there is a record of the mileage from each one of them.

(I was not trying to show you vans to buy BTW, I just wanted an idea of how much modification you were talking about. The link and pics you provided snapped it all right into focus. )

That is a pretty well-done setup. It is hard to put a value on it.

The trans is a C6, so no planetary 'shudder' into OD each time. That really is about the best setup there was of the era for a diesel van.

Whoever made that rear box...they did you a favor. It confirms it has not been owned by an abusive kind of guy.
The FIRST time that thing went even a little off road or jumped a curb, that box would be mangled.
The paint also looks too clean in the front to be 142,000. I would have to see it in person to tell if it is a repaint...but if it is original that very well could be original miles. 142,000 would have pitting on the nose and windshield area.
The dash and the door closing are also hints. Those pins are not worn out. Unusual in that year van.
Actually, I am pretty damned impressed with it from what I can see in the video.
Can you bring it to a diesel shop? As in...a place that works on Navistar?
I would spend a couple hundred and have them go over it top to bottom if you are considering it.

Know one thing about that kind of A/C unit installed in the back. I think it is the kind that uses inside air to blow out the vent hose.
They do not work well for vehicles, because they suck air in through the windows to blow out through the coils.
In a house, this is okay...but in a cab that small, you end up sucking in more heat than it actually cools.
Make sure you run it to see what I mean. If it's the "one hose vent" model, it will be apparent instantly.

Figure on checking/replacing hoses/brake flex lines/belts. Get a date on the tires. Over 5 years old, toss them.
(Those are pricey.) When they sit, the calipers often will end up sticking after a small amount of use.
If these items are dry rotted, the value goes down.

If a grease powered van is your goal, it could be worth close to what they want.
One thing for sure...that is a very rare bird to find in that condition. It would cost thousands to set that up after buying a bare van.

 

[JD GUMBEE]

Are you set on diesel?
Grease power?

What else are you looking at and what are you going to do with it?

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Are you set on diesel?
Grease power?

What else are you looking at and what are you going to do with it?

I'm not set on diesel at all.  I plan to live in it for extended periods (months) and do some travel.  A lot.  There's not much to look at in the north Alabama area.  Even Knoxville is a bit of a drive.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

Hmmmm, certainly a tempting Medusa isn't it based upon the excellent exterior condition for a 30yr old Diesel and that desirable motor. How to address it's value has allot of perception and intangibles that may or may not be true when dealing with an old classic.

Is it worth $10k?
Some factors to consider.

1.That Diesel is/was a gem. Will it be so at 30 yrs+ as you move forward? Every gasket, rubber seal and o ring in every part is in varying stage of 30+ yrs of decay. Brakes, hydraulics, pumps, hoses, etc... Would be fallacy that this thing has +100k's of trouble free miles left. The rings and pistons and crank has many more miles maybe, but everything attached to it probably won't and will need replacing. 

2. Mileage? Highly unlikely that it is 40k and the sales pitch manner leaves me ????. However, the original, if original, stripes appear untouched, good sign as not easily redone to match. Are you willing to accept this unknown and MAYBE get lucky?

3. Do you Have mechanical skills and Diesel knowledge for the repairs and breakdowns? Will you putter about locally or do some serious travel distance and off roads? Take a chance if putting around locally, maybe.

4. And old class b is a comparable but would have a pro finish interior. That plywood interior has no value.
30yr old systems. How much life if any are left? Fix, repair and replace will cost how much? 
Ask anyone with 20+ old RV on that. What is there has about 10% of it's value left, if that. The charge controller was at 11.6 volts. As probably everything else in that van is below minimal operational levels.
Ever see any of the Top Gear UK shows where they buy old classics and see how it goes? Never well.

5. $10k, well, what else can you get in your area for that amount? Truck and camper. Trailer, van, old class b, etc...
In my area, can get a fairly recent van of less than ten years, low mileage, and with a basic buildout with new equipment which would be much more reliable. Don't be charmed by old equipment. No value really.

6. Old Diesel vs newer gas engine. Know what I would choose. Diesel benefits probably not there after 30yrs compared to a newer gas engine which can get similar mpg.

7. The value of that rig is in the motor and the decent physical outside shape for the year. Nothing else.
What is a truck or plain van with that motor worth in your area? IMHO, that is it's value, everything else in it has little. And then, just because others are paying top Dollar for an old Diesel, still doesn't mean it will be trouble free and worth it. That intangible value doesn't always pan out to be reliable.

Look at your comparable and alternatives for your $10k and see how well they stack up.


Btw, did anyone see the blocks of wood under the front seat? Looked like they were used as adapter plates to mount the seats to. If so, be VERY afraid on that one alone.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I'm not interested in a travel trailer or motor home. I could get on board with a truck camper, but I don't own a truck, and finding a camper and a truck to haul it with is probably going to be out of my price range. I want to stay under $8,000, but I could go a bit over that for the right vehicle.

 

[Riverman]

I've been thru this many times, you will have to be willing to travel to find a decent, affordable van. Then, be willing to do some work on it inside to your liking. Atlanta is the place to go for a van. Hundreds for sale at every price range. Here's 126 examples>

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/search/cta?sort=date&query=conversion+van


This is my opinion only, from experience the hard way... If you buy an older vehicle you need money in reserve for repairs. It's no fun to break down out west with no money for the repairs. Motors, transmissions, A/C, tires, brakes, cooling problems... all take lots of $$$ when on the road. I would NEVER head out west without a few thousand $$$ in reserve for repairs. Many do it for way less, but then they cry when they break down and no way to get going again. Just my opinion...

 

[Riverman]

Conversion vans with the high top are nice but they usually are full of windows which are hard to keep cool or warm. I prefer a plain Chevy express van, then it can be super insulated inside and custom built for real living. A big cost is the high top add on, though. Every vehicle has it's good and bad points. That's life...

 

[wagoneer]

I had a diesel ford one ton van 2001 and it was very reliable but difficult to work on unless you have small hands. I found a 1995 Dodge cummins 3/4 ton
(camper included) for 7k under 99k miles 6 dig odometer, got lucky. They are out there. My advice keep breathing.