House battery drain

[cyndi]

I've got no knowledge to help, Katie. Just hoping the problem gets handled and it's an easy fix.

 

[twokniveskatie]

Well, when I got here, they said they wanted to test the electrical system first, before disassembling my bed and the restraints that hold the house battery in place. Makes a good case for battery location. The check engine light came on during the ride up. He said it might be related to battery problem. So I guess this is a good first step. Rule out a dying alternator first.

 

[twokniveskatie]

Cyndi- got your VM from yesterday. Sent you a text, but didn't know if you we're text capable. I'll give ya a buzz after we sort things out here. And thanks for the good thoughts.

I have heard from a few people, like me, who didn't know about needing the grid or a generator for topping off the house battery, so I don't feel so bad. It is requested that I leave my idiocy for future learning purposes (haha one persons exact words ) I may do that, but I do want all the battery stuff in one easy to find place. So we'll sort it out.

I have learned much from this, but my number rule in the future is : when you read an article, don't read til you find the info you want. Finish the WHOLE article. It might be the last paragraph that says " do not try this at home" !!!

 

[twokniveskatie]

Okey dokey, I'm about the luckiest person on the planet. The battery is bad. Ruined by me presumably. So what to do? They said they could disconnect it to stop the continuous sucking from the alternator. But then I have no house lights or cigarette lighters to charge my phone. They can replace the battery for about $150 but I still have the problem of how to plug it in somewhere, my battery doesn't have any hookup a for that. I have to make a decision about future power. Sure, now I only charge my phone and turn on an occasional light, but I hope to have a laptop again someday, and be able to run my printer now and then. I had hoped for a couple agm's down the line, and a little solar panel.

So I called Walmart. My battery is still under warranty! No kidding, warranty is for 24 months. I'm heading there now to get it replaced. Which still leaves me with no way to charge the battery. I'll have to figure that out. Buy I will have a new battery to sell or trade if I can't figure something else out.

 

[wrcsixeight]

Katie. &nbsp;While the battery failed, I think you can blame Walmart making Johnson controls meet their price point more so than your lack of knowledge of how batteries are charged by the alternator.<br /><br /> &nbsp;I think wal mart has caused the poor performing battery epidemic what has spread across the land as everybody tries to compete on price.<br /><br />A single incandescent &nbsp;light bulb will draw at least twice as much, an up to 10 times as much as it takes to charge your I phone. &nbsp;If it is a bright bulb, 10 times as much<br /><br />LED replacement bulbs are available but good ones are not cheap. &nbsp;Usually lighting is one of the biggest loads on the battery, and LED replacements make a huge difference.<br /><br />One other thing that comes to mind is The wiring to the second battery has to be thick for it to even see the minimal amperage that the hot alternator can send it. &nbsp;With long thin wiring leading to a depleted battery, it is like running a marathon and trying to breathe through a cocktail straw. &nbsp;In fact the voltage regulator is likely only seeing the nearly fully charged engine battery and reducing the voltage quickly, thus alternator output even more. &nbsp;Thicker cabling will allow the voltage regulator to see the depleted house battery and allow it to put out more amps until ~14.5 volts is reached.<br /><br />For a battery under your bed in the back of an Astro, you are looking at a minimum of 10 feet from the solenoid to the house battery. &nbsp;This cabling, insulation included should be almost 1/2 inch thick, and copper is not cheap. &nbsp;The vehicles original wiring was barely adequate to charge the original battery. &nbsp;Much better performance can be obtained by running a additional 100 amp fused cable from the alternator(+) stud, to the engine battery Stud on the solenoid.<br /><br />Now solenoids are known to fail and cause issues like you are having as well. &nbsp;They either not engage and parallel the batteries, or the internal contacts get crusty and will not pass many/any amps. &nbsp;The Solenoid will get hot if this is the case. &nbsp;The contact can also fuse together and then the batteries are always in parallel.<br /><br />One other thing I hesitate to mention is that flooded batteries like what you had, need to be ventilated to the exterior. &nbsp;Batteries off gas hydrogen and oxygen when they are being charged and above ~85% state of charge.<br /><br />Since you have no other charging source besides the alternator, and you are moving, and your battery only saw +85% when it was new, this prevented any offgassing. &nbsp;If you were &nbsp;to pull up the cover over the battery when it was being charged above 85% at 14.2+ volts, you would smell it. &nbsp;Some sulfuric acid can squeeze outside the caps, and evaporate and those fumes are corrosive, and should not be breathed.<br /><br />Also, &nbsp; Electronics should NOT be in this same compartment as the battery. &nbsp;they can make tiny sparks, and an offgasing battery is making hydrogen and oxygen, and we return to the hindenburg reference.<br /><br />Now I know many, myself included, have put flooded batteries inside the living space with no major effects, but it is not good practice. An AGM battery, which is significantly more expensive only offgasses when severely overcharged, and is a much better option for putting inside the vehicle.<br /><br />Sears Die Hard platinum batteries are about the best bang for the buck AGM battery available. &nbsp;Universal battery sold at stores like battery plus are okay to good. &nbsp;Excellent AGM batteries are Lifeline, and Odyssey. &nbsp;Avoid Optima, they are a marketing scam beneficial only in super high vibration environments. &nbsp;Their 6 pack design actually reduces capacity.<br /><br />Also CCA ratings( Cold cranking amps) are a measure of how much amperage a battery can apply to a starter motor. &nbsp;They are NOT a measure of capacity.<br /><br />Amp hours and reserve capacity are measures of capacity, with Amp hours being a superior method. &nbsp;Note that wal marts batteries are amp hours at the 1 hour rate. &nbsp;The standard is the 20 hour rate. &nbsp;Your previous marine battery at 120 amp hours was the 1 hour rate, &nbsp;At the 20 it was likely 110 amp hours. &nbsp;More wal mart trickery.<br /><br />Also Marine batteries sometimes have a MCA rating, which is measured at 32f whereas CCA is at 0 degrees F. &nbsp;The colder the battery the worst it performs. &nbsp; &nbsp;MCA ratings are more trickery, but understandable since no boat will likely be started at 0 degrees F.<br /><br />Most marine batteries are starting batteries just slightly more tolerant of deeper discharges.<br /><br />True deep cycle batteries recover from deeper discharges better, and will do so for longer, but are still damaged by chronic undercharging. &nbsp;they will cost about 30% more than a marine battery. &nbsp;Makers of good true deep cycle 12 volt batteries are Crown, Trojan, Deka and pretty much any 6 volt golf cart battery is a good deep cycle battery, but 2 are required for 12 volts.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[twokniveskatie]

Glad you are here. I am at Walmart. The battery is being retested. I can replace with agm batteries apparently. I can afford to pay for the upgrade since the base price is covered from the old battery. What size do I get? It says AGM but shows a motorcycle on the package!?!

 

[twokniveskatie]

God, I hate being so stupid in a rush. It's better to be stupid when you are at your leisure. Can agm's just be hooked back up to the wires I have?

 

[twokniveskatie]

Oh no. I have to see what brand agm they have here. I have to buy them where they will install them.

 

[wrcsixeight]

Some AGM batteries do not have nice wingnuts on studs for easy installation.<br /><br />I was not aware wally world carried AGM batteries. &nbsp;Optima will work but there are better choices. &nbsp;More capacity for the same money, and capacity is king.<br /><br />Get the biggest battery that will fit, and you can afford. &nbsp;group 24/27/29 and 31 range from 85 to 130 amp hours.<br /><br />AGM batteries can be charged faster. &nbsp;They can accept higher amperages and don't fight the last 10% as much as flooded batteries do.

 

[twokniveskatie]

Never mind. WM has to test the batt before honoring warranty. They say battery is good. Rated: 845 CCA, measured 761 CCA. Who do I believe?

 

[wrcsixeight]

Good Speaking with you Earlier Katie. &nbsp;I hope that with the other shop's written statements that the battery failed their load tests, will induce Wal-mart pony up a prorated battery, perhaps free battery.<br /><br />They slowly became wise to the fact that many who use batteries like we do, abuse them, then hope of getting a new one under warranty for free. &nbsp;Like Insurance companies, their first reaction is to deny deny deny and hope you give up. &nbsp;Since they saw what your battery was being used for, they had 'deny' on their lips soon as you opened your side door instead of hood.<br /><br />For a while they removed warranties on anything but engine starting batteries, but then had to start offering a less inclusive warranty again for the marine/RV batteries as they lost so much business.<br /><br />I started editing everything I wrote in the above posts for a Sticky, then just started over a new. &nbsp;So much for limiting my computer time <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" alt="" align="absmiddle" border="0" />.<br /><br /> &nbsp;I'll reread it and edit it a few more times till I am happy with the accuracy and syntax &nbsp;and conciseness of the wording, then submit it. &nbsp;I'll add sections later on how to increase alternator charging performance and cover how to wire up an isolated second battery correctly the first time, and the different options for doing so.

 

[twokniveskatie]

Can you jump start a starter battery when you have a house battery?

 

[twokniveskatie]

Hey, just saw your post above.

I haven't gotten the second opinion yet. Had to shelve the battery thing last week after a family member had a problem. Will let you know what happens when I get back to it, though.

 

[wrcsixeight]

Yes. &nbsp;It is possible. &nbsp;Several different ways depending on how it is wired.<br /><br /> &nbsp;Your 30' of 10 awg could never do it instantly, but give it a few hours and it could transfer enough to the engine battery &nbsp;to allow it to start the engine.

 

[twokniveskatie]

No, what I meant is if I can talk AAA into coming up into Timbuk-cornfield, can they jump it the same as always?

 

[wrcsixeight]

Yes, no different than normal jump start.

 

[twokniveskatie]

Yeah, we'll, they can't be sweet-talked into coming up, so it's a moot point tonight.
I can deal with it in the morning! Thanks!

 

[wrcsixeight]

<a href="http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-multimeter-98025.html">http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-multimeter-98025.html<br /><br />Y</a>ou should pick up one of these. &nbsp;They are very easy to use and are a great diagnostic tool.<br /><br />Starting batteries really hate being completely discharged. &nbsp;If the battery is old, it might be the proverbial straw which broke the camel's back.<br /><br />And once again, the battery should see a 10 amp grid powered charger overnight.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SS...40001&amp;sr=1-4&amp;keywords=battery+charger">http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SS...40001&amp;sr=1-4&amp;keywords=battery+charger<br /><br />I</a>&nbsp;have a version of this charger that goes to 25 amps but is no longer made. &nbsp;Depending on how your friends wired your battery isolator, with a charger hooked to one battery, both might charge., So 15 amps as opposed to 10 would be a good thing then.

 

[twokniveskatie]

On my way to harbor freight. They are in sale for $3.99. Put the charger on my amazon wish list. If I get it, I'll buy it through Bob.

Van is running. Battery is fairly new, and warrantied. I'm going to go get both batteries tested today. See where I stand. Will make my decisions based on available warranties, cash, and how bad I want to go to the RTR.

 

[Simran]

I'll add sections later on how to increase alternator charging performance and cover how to wire up an isolated second battery correctly the first time, and the different options for doing so.

<br /><br />I be looking forward to this when you've time to do it.<br />All-in-all a very interesting bit of information so far! Thanks for that!<br /><br />gus