Homelessness [split from Leadville and Salida Ranger Districts]

[Spaceman Spiff]

Do you have a source?

Mostly about 60 years experience working with homeless men:

• During high school and early college I worked part time in a County Mens Home where I got to talk to men who had worked in the CCC and WPA camps.
• After college I started volunteering at a local mission serving homeless men (still do). Again lonely men will open up to anyone willing to listen.
• I've never worked with homeless women but I talk to ladies that do. Almost all of them that have skills can find work. Reasons that they don't are sometimes different from men.

The statistical data I have seen bears this out; easily found if you want to look.

 

[rruff]

Mostly about 60 years experience working with homeless men

I don't have 60 years experience, but have lived with homeless people (in Santa Cruz and Santa Barbara) for a few months... and I'd agree. Very high substance abuse and psych issues, and these would not be reliable workers at all. Some are much more functional and can work (and do occasionally!), but a job commitment isn't something they want even if they could manage it. Cost-benefit just isn't worth it. I thought they were interesting "communities" and enjoyed them for the most part, as they were quite "real"... not trying to be anything... except when trying to extract money form tourists! I can understand the appeal since it was a stimulating and rather free environment and not hard to manage once you figured it out. The worst aspect was the constant police harassment.

 

[user 22017]

Times were very different: depression not recession, skilled workers out of work, hard physical work. Today, few homeless have the skills or endurance to do any meaningful work a la CCC.

Most were not skilled and many of the jobs did not require strenuous physical labor. From the History Channel:

The CCC enrolled mostly young, unskilled and unemployed men between the ages of 18 and 25. The men came primarily from families on government assistance. Men enlisted for a minimum of six months. <snip>

Some corpsmen received supplemental basic and vocational education while they served. In fact, it’s estimated that some 57,000 illiterate men learned to read and write in CCC camps.

In addition to younger men, the CCC enrolled World War I Army veterans, skilled foresters and craftsmen, and roughly 88,000 Native Americans living on Indian reservations.

Despite an amendment outlawing racial discrimination in the CCC, young African American enrollees lived and worked in separate camps. In the 1930s, the U.S. Supreme Court didn’t think of segregation as racial discrimination.

Though the CCC enjoyed overwhelming public support throughout its tenure, the agency’s programs initially drew criticism from organized labor.
Trade unions opposed the training of unskilled workers when so many union members were out of work. They also opposed Army involvement in the CCC, which they feared could lead to state control and regimentation of labor.

In order to quell union opposition, FDR appointed American labor union leader and vice president of the International Association of Machinists as the first director of the CCC.

https://www.history.com/topics/great-depression/civilian-conservation-corps

Also, thousands of murals were painted as part of the New Deal.


~~~~~~~~~~~~
Regarding homeless today, you may want to read these:

The 12 Biggest Myths about Homelessness in America

Silver School of Social Work professor Deborah K. Padgett’s scholarship upends common assumptions about substance abuse, mental illness, and ‘bad choices.’

https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2019/september/HomelessQandA.html
https://sites.uab.edu/humanrights/2020/03/09/what-is-homelessness-and-why-is-it-an-issue/

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^It seemed to me from the report a large percentage of those living on the street over a longer period of time did have mental, drug and health problems but most of those would accept safe housing if they could get it.

 

[rruff]

The 12 Biggest Myths about Homelessness in America

"Two-thirds of all homeless are single adults, while the remaining third are made up of families and unaccompanied youths. Most “self-resolve,” or exit homelessness within a few days or weeks—in fact, only about 16 percent are chronically homeless."

In other words according this study, 84% of homeless only have that status very briefly. I would call that "someone who is moving to a new location and is briefly without an address". All their other statistics regarding the traits of homeless people, are tainted by this assumption.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^But to me this means if 16% is what we are seeing as people with problems living on the street, we have a much larger problem that we not be aware of!

 

[user 22017]

^^^But to me this means if 16% is what we are seeing as people with problems living on the street, we have a much larger problem that we not be aware of!

Yes. One article says that.

 

[Happy Camper]

I don't think the homeless then and now is an apples to apples comparison.

You can quote every statistic and article. But back then it was a much more matter of fact, do what needs to be done society.

It's much different now.

 

[rruff]

^^^But to me this means if 16% is what we are seeing as people with problems living on the street, we have a much larger problem that we not be aware of!

What is the problem though of it's only for a few days?

 

[bullfrog !]

“Homeless a few days or weeks” for many is devastating, especially if your children are in school, it becomes a generational problem. Continuity is vital for young children. How many young families can survive a bankruptcy or even an eviction on their credit record. Again in my opinion “homelessness” is just an indicator of much more serious problems and the fact it is growing is a warning the root problems need to be dealt with. People shouldn’t “have to” resort to living on federal land, lots of us do but it should be because we want to.

 

[rruff]

Covid must have been really devastating for kids then, since they didn't have continuity for years...? What about kids who have to move to different towns regularly because of their parent's jobs, and lose their friends?

The article simply states that this is the case with no references. It doesn't even define what they are talking about. I concluded that it was bogus, a propaganda piece. If it is based on any data at all, the unseen "homeless" families or adults who were only homeless for a few days, were probably just making a move from one place to another. I've done that several times and know of many others. At any rate it has no information and isn't worth anyone's attention or time. You jumped to a different conclusion.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^Covid was very detrimental for the children of this country, moving to a new home is much different than losing your home and homelessness is on the rise in my opinion. There are several other recent studies and interviews with social service and education specialists if you look but that is every individuals choice. One good thing during Covid was at least we were able to see some positive results in preventing children from growing up in extreme poverty, even if short term, it appears important. Seems more crowed on public lands now than ever to me. I hope I’m wrong but like me years ago I feel many are there for financial reasons. Seems like we are wasting yet another resource by not helping create opportunities for those that need and want it. Not all of them will be as lucky as I was.

 

[rruff]

According to HUD, 2020-2022: "Homelessness among certain sub-populations decreased. The number of veterans experiencing homelessness decreased by 11%, contributing to a 55% decrease since 2010. Between 2020 and 2022, the number of families with children experiencing homelessness declined by 6% between 2020 and 2022, marking a total decline of 36% since 2010. The number of people under the age of 25 who experienced homelessness on their own as “unaccompanied youth” also declined by 12%."
https://www.hud.gov/press/press_releases_media_advisories/HUD_No_22_253
2007 to 2020 trend:

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^In the body of the article it states homelessness increased overall from 2020 to 2022 and mentions they believe it didn’t spike due to Biden’s Covid policies which by the way are about to run their course and the Congress has not addressed what to do now about children living in poverty. I expect like most surveys it will be 2024 before we see the results of inaction.

 

[user 22017]

"Two-thirds of all homeless are single adults, while the remaining third are made up of families and unaccompanied youths. Most “self-resolve,” or exit homelessness within a few days or weeks—in fact, only about 16 percent are chronically homeless."

Well, how many people make up 16% of 500,000?

"According to HUD, on any given night, more than half a million people sleep in shelters and unsheltered places not meant for human habitation, such as cars and encampments."

https://www.usich.gov/fsp/state-of-homelessness

 

[user 22017]

You can quote every statistic and article. But back then it was a much more matter of fact, do what needs to be done society.

It's much different now.

Not sure what you mean.

*According to Kusmer (2002) and Leginski (2007), the most prominent spikes in homelessness occurred during the colonial period, pre-industrial era, post-Civil War years, Great Depression, and today.

https://www.usich.gov/fsp/state-of-homelessness

 

[user 22017]

I've done that several times and know of many others. At any rate it has no information and isn't worth anyone's attention or time. You jumped to a different conclusion.

Did you do it when your parent(s) lost everything? And you had nothing? Staying in shelters and eating in soup kitchens? That's tough on kids and shouldn't be happening here.

 

[rruff]

Did you do it when your parent(s) lost everything? And you had nothing? Staying in shelters and eating in soup kitchens? That's tough on kids and shouldn't be happening here.

Kids suffer a hell of a lot more indignities than a few days of not having a "home"! A life time of being raised by dysfunctional, chaotic, drug abusing parents for instance... or just parents who split up. 99% percent of a kid's stability is their parents being sane and reliable. I mean seriously... what makes the soup kitchen worse than the school cafeteria, and the shelter worse than staying in a motel? Families get first dibs and high priority in those places for the brief time there are there.

People who stay in shelters and eat in soup kitchens are considered homeless. According to the article with no attributions, whatever they are defining as "homeless families", these people are only homeless for a few days. And according to the article I linked earlier, the number in this group has declined by 36% since 2010. So no reason to be getting in an uproar now.

Apparently overall homelessness is less than it was then as well, despite the covid effect of turning functional addicts into dysfunctional ones. We can't blame the explosion of homeless people on public lands on homelessness in general. Rather we can probably give Bob a good deal of credit for making this a popular alternative.

 

[maki2]

Seattle has volunteers who literally beat the bushes to do an annual count of the homeless who are living on the streets in shelters, vehicles and tent
encampments or in the wooded areas. If you wanted to you could look up those statistics. It is a lot more accurate than the counts that just list the people using shelters and official social services.

 

[bullfrog !]

I agree today we are seeing a large number of people in the USA that have managed to “get by” or survive difficult living conditions become “homeless”. There have been many private organizations and individuals that were doing even better to help those that were not. Unfortunately now most of those people have now joined the ranks of those needing help as they struggle to survive with incomes that no longer are enough to provide for their needs. Many older or disabled people are unable to work and must rely on Social Security as corporations did away with pensions as political power was used to weaken unions. Many have ended up living on federal lands. Modern media has enabled huge amounts of information to be available to the public many of whom have difficulty making good choices due to not only wrong information but biased information. Bob Wells and many others simply showed others what they were doing to not only survive but thrive from their personal point of view, really the same thing members are doing here.