Heating when you can't afford a Mr. Buddy

[Every Road Leads Home]

These are actually large heavy camping tarps with grommets made out of that silver heat reflective stuff. As for wool, I live in it. Got a night time merino (non itch) wardrobe and wool blankets as well as sleeping bags.

I even wear white feather weight merino in the summer at 7k altitude, high temps. Moisture wicking, non itch, machine wash warm, dries fast. Great stuff. Socks, undies, gloves, hats, head to toe merino wool :shy: 

For van dwellers, get this, it is anti microbial, that means NO ODOR. Can wear without washing for quite a while.

I'm a year round wool wearer myself.  I think Merino Wool is one of the best things on this earth as far as comfort is concerned.  

I lived with damp feet for years,  tried different footwear constantly trying to remedy the problem..........then it finally dawned on me, my feet were never damp hiking.....because I hiked with wool socks.  Now all my socks are wool of varying thicknesses for all weather.  

Love my wool blankets too.

 

[GrayWhale]

I haven't done it myself but many say: Get a CLEAN, UNUSED & non-lined (no plastic coating, etc) paint can. Take the cardboard tube out of a roll of tissue.  Put it in the can. Fill w/rubbing alcohol  (70-90%) until the tissue doesn't soak up any more  (if it seems over-filled,  that's O.K.). You are actually burning the alcohol,  not the tissue! Not much odor. To kill it, just slide can cover over flames, DON'T try to blow out! You can also place this in something larger & metal for safety. I'm going to try it. It's all over youtube, o'course!

This is probably more expensive than using propane. And with this, you're going to get a huge ass, lurching flame that's not adjustable.

I have a Trianga alcohol stove and it's very efficient. With 70% rubbing alcohol, it gave me a serious headache from the fumes after a few hours. 90% and there's significant soot; and it burns fuel faster.

 

[geogentry]

I'm with highdesertranger - sleeping bag is the most cost effective.  Some years ago when the wife and I were vanning in the Smoky Mountains in the winter I went to a military surplus place and got a couple mummy sleeping bags.  It would get down between 0 and 10 degrees but we slept like babies.  Everything in the van got frozen so I left water in a pan (which froze) and just popped the frozen water on the stove in the morning.  Warned up the van and was able to make coffee.  We tried a heater - they eat those gas bottles.  When it got really cold it would eat one a day..  That was about 60 - 90 dollars a month.  the two bags cost less than that and lasted all winter.

But then perhaps I am just cheap.

 

[lenny flank]

    I'm amazed how many people don't know this.

I think many people assume that their body heat will work as a heat source. Alas, the human body puts out about 250 BTUs per hour--about the same as a tealight candle. Not enough to warm the interior volume of a van to any significant degree.

 

[John61CT]

I think many people assume that their body heat will work as a heat source. Alas, the human body puts out about 250 BTUs per hour--about the same as a tealight candle. Not enough to warm the interior volume of a van to any significant degree.

Lenny you keep saying this, but A. it can be 300-400, around an old-school 100W light bulb. Look at the units farmers use for chicks and honeybees.

And B. in a *very well insulated* and *small space*, that amount of energy makes a huge difference to actual comfort.

No one is talking about heating the **air volume** in the van to comfortabl levels, that takes a lot more energy, and is IMO wasteful.

But a low-frequency infrared direct-radiant source does not need a lot of energy to increase perceived comfort, which is all that counts.

Maybe you've just never been in a truly well-insulated van?

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?pid=352495#pid352495

For myself personally, I constantly get comments from people close to me how they can feel the heat radiating off my body, even move away because it makes them uncomfortably hot.

On a more extreme maybe fanciful note, check out scientific observation of the Tibetan practice of Tummo meditation, sitting in 40°F fully drying water-soaked sheets on their naked skin.

Back to here and now, inside a sub-zero sleeping bag, as long as you're eating well, that is all that's needed, no one's freezing to death in there. What other heat source is there in that situation?

 

[lenny flank]

> Lenny you keep saying this, but A. it can be 300-400, around an old-school 100W light bulb. Look at the units farmers use for chicks and honeybees.


I challenge anyone to heat the inside of their van to any significant degree with a 100w lightbulb.


> Back to here and now, inside a sub-zero sleeping bag, as long as you're eating well, that is all that's needed,  no one's freezing to death in there. What other heat source is there in that situation?


That being my entire point. There is a BIG difference between using your body heat to try to warm the interior of a van, and using that same body heat to warm the inside of a sleeping bag. It's probably 1% of the volume.

Most people don't need to heat the inside of their van at all, and insulation is a wasted expense for them. All they need is a good winter mummy sleeping bag.

I think the idea of "insulating and heating the van interior" is a holdover from the "living inside a house" outlook, where we heat the entire interior living space. It's simply not necessary in a van. 

 

[John61CT]

Well personally I agree for many scenarios. But there are different ones, and of course others have different preferences.

Spending the whole winter living with little kids in high-mountain ski area parking lots is a good example.

Running a Webasto-type heater off the vehicle's propulsion fuel, or a Propex HS2211, even with an 80-gallon tank, it is important to make the one-time investment in a solid insulation job in order to maximize fuel efficiency.

 

[lenny flank]

Or, as I said, insulation works by trapping heat, and is useless without a heat source.

 

[John61CT]

Some people even use efficient cooling systems, good insulation also very important in that context. How can heat be "trapped" if it's not allowed to enter?

Precisely controlled high-CFM air exchange is even more critical to comfort and health, avoiding condensation and also heat build-up.

Bottom line is the better insulated the less energy needed to reach a given temperature.

If you just "follow the 70's" fine and good, just don't assume one size (your situation) fits all.

 

[lenny flank]

Alas, the laws of thermodynamics mean that insulation is far less effective at keeping heat OUT than it is at keeping heat IN.

But yes, insulation is useless for "cooling" too unless one has an AC of some sort.

 

[skyl4rk]

I picked up one of these

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/redstone-single-tank-top-heater-15-000-btus?cm_vc=-10005

Do you think I will die if I use it in a van? I like it because it is all metal and because it is securely mounted to a tank with no hoses. However I can't connect my 2 burner stove at the same time.

 

[Ballenxj]

I picked up one of these

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/redstone-single-tank-top-heater-15-000-btus?cm_vc=-10005
 
Do you think I will die if I use it in a van?  I like it because it is all metal and because it is securely mounted to a tank with no hoses.  However I can't connect my 2 burner stove at the same time.

I would be wary of that one as I would bet it has no carbon monoxide detector like the Mr Buddy Heaters do. 
http://www.mrheater.com/faqs/general/Why-can-the-Buddy-heaters-be-used-indoors-safely/

That, and I suspect they show the one from Tractor Supply being used outdoors for a reason.

 

[Stargazer]

The Mr Heater Buddy does not have a CO detector. It will shut off when O2 levels are low, as in high altitudes or non-vented areas.

 

[Stargazer]

Skyl4rk,

Looking at the info on the link, it does say it has an oxygen depletion detector. It also says its for "outdoor use". Makes me think maybe not in a small enclosed space??

 

[John61CT]

Chance of deadly accident much higher with that type than any other propane unit I can think of.

Just read all the warnings on the instructions! Sure from lawyers, but for a reason

 

[hugemoth]

I've had a couple of those over the years. It does look like they've changed the design slightly by adding a low oxygen sensor. Mine worked fine but there were two drawbacks. It's noisey, much more so than the ceramic type. The steel screen that glows red hot eventually burns up and gets holes in it and the heater no longer works. The ceramic type are more expensive but they last a long time and are quieter.

 

[Kathleen]

I'm a year round wool wearer myself.  I think Merino Wool is one of the best things on this earth as far as comfort is concerned.  

I lived with damp feet for years,  tried different footwear constantly trying to remedy the problem..........then it finally dawned on me, my feet were never damp hiking.....because I hiked with wool socks.  Now all my socks are wool of varying thicknesses for all weather.  

Love my wool blankets too.

Glad to know someone else discovered the incredible features of merino wool. Agree about the socks, I've got all different weights for different weather and depending on which shoes/boots I'm wearing.

This is a really good thing for van dwellers to learn about. Costco sells it cheap for men and women, shirts and leggings. Walmart carries the sox in sporting goods.

Not many people realize this non itch wool comes in super light fabric. I wear long sleeved white merino shirts in the summer to protect from high elevation burning UV's.

If you sweat, no one would ever know, no odor.

 

[TinaTomato]

Anyone heard of the idea of changing one's consciousness to stay warm? There's an article in Popular Science that mentions a study that found Tibetan nuns can change their core body temperature by up to almost 101 degrees F with a certain type of mediation called "g-tummo".

That, and some wool socks and you're all set! 

 

[John61CT]

Yes Tibetan monks go sit out naked in the snow, turn on the tummo and melt the snow all around them, soak sheets in water drape over them they dry them right up.

Need a lot of yak milk tea to fuel those furnaces!

 

[GypsySpirit]

I picked up one of these

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/redstone-single-tank-top-heater-15-000-btus?cm_vc=-10005
 
Do you think I will die if I use it in a van?  I like it because it is all metal and because it is securely mounted to a tank with no hoses.  However I can't connect my 2 burner stove at the same time.

I have one of those,  I use it to pre-heat before I go to bed, and again in the morning to take the chill out of the air.  I do not run it at night.  I average 10-15 minutes total daily and it works wonderfully.