Heater design

[Donedirtcheap]

I need to come up with a cheap, easy heater design. Dont want to breath the fumes, dont want it to tip over and catch anything on fire, dont want a 20 lb bottle inside........huuumm

 

[Suanne]

DoneDirtCheap,

Have you considered the Olympia Wave Catalytic Heaters that run off the 1-lb bottles of propane? I run a Wave 3 and it works well for when we are up and around inside our little RV. Note that, for safety, we have the requisite detectors (smoke and CO2 up high, propane down low). The heater has an automatic shut off if tipped over; or it can be mounted to a wall.

When driving, we simply use the conventional vehicle heater up front.

When in bed, I put very warm water in 2-liter bottles, wrapped in towels, to keep at feet and sides. I also lay one next to our dog.

Another trick that gets warmth into the RV on especially cold nights, is to heat 4-5 gallons of water in a covered pot. Heat the water to just below boil; the point is to not let any steam escape to increase moisture inside your RV. Not only will heat from the stove immediately help to warm the space, but water is a great thermal collector, releasing its heat slowly. After heating the pot of water, I move it to the floor because warm air rises and it will heat the whole space more evenly when down low.

We've yet to need to run the Wave 3 while sleeping.

I like to have more than one option for a "heater" depending on what I'm doing inside my vehicle at the time.

Please take what works for you and disregard the rest ... YMMV.

Suanne
http://SuanneOnline.blogspot.com

 

[Possum]

DoneDirtCheap, I Have been currently using a oil filled electric heater to heat my box van and have been really pleased with it. It has only used approx. 1200 watts total per day, cycling it on 15 minutes/hour as needed.i have been keeping a bout 65 to 70 degrees avg temp inside. I am currently living out here in Northern Colorado during this "deep freeze". I have a "buddy heater" but haven't had the need to use it yet and hope not to as I don't care for the potential "risks" involved.
Happy Holidays!!
Randy

 

[compassrose]

Simple RV Hydronic Heating System (text only)

If this is of interest to anyone, I suggest you copy the image and the text to your computer. I have lost this several times over the last few years. I have all of it saved on my hard drive and hope my hard drive doesn't crap out on me.


Do not read any farther unless you want to know how we are setting up our heat systems (yes, plural)...

This is the simplest fan forced hydronic system I have found. It is the one we based our hydronic system on using an old 6 gal LP water heater from a defunct RV that we added a Camco electric heater to. The fans and "radiator" are part of the original school bus heat system. the two fans are 12vDC and bolted to the heat exchanger. I bought a 7L (110GPH) DC 12V Brushless HHO CPU Cooling Water/oil pump . We plan on filling the water heater with pet safe antifreeze. We will buy a standard White-Rodgers 01C20-101 Mechanical Heat Only Thermostat to turn the fans/pump off/on as needed. This will be our main (ducted) heat system. We will be able to run it on LP or AC. The 12vDC part will run off our battery bank which is on a progressive dynamics smart charger. Unfortunately the cold weather caught up to us before we got the under floor ducts installed. So it will have to wait. We are running two small electric heaters plus a wall mounted DynaGlo Tag-a-long (indoor rated) when it gets too cold for the electric heaters. The Tag-a-long is mounted on a little wall in the bathroom/dressing room area. It is used to warm up the small area for showers. It is capable of heating the back half of the bus quite easily. We have found that the electric heaters stop working very well when temps fall below 40F. I ordered an LP fireplace last night to install in our vintage mantle. This will eventually be our back up heat source as well as for when we only need a bit of heat in the front section of the bus and do not want to heat the whole place (we sleep on a heated mattress pad and keep nighttime temps around 60F). We can be completely powerless and still use the Tag-a-long and the fireplace as heat sources. We will be able to run the hydronic system only on LP and 12VDC (no generator). I like to have options.

ProCom 29 in. Vent-Free Dual Fuel Firebox Insert

---

On edit: How do you edit the image to a smaller size??? This is embarrassing....

 

[Donedirtcheap]

DoneDirtCheap,

Have you considered the Olympia Wave Catalytic Heaters that run off the 1-lb bottles of propane? I run a Wave 3 and it works well for when we are up and around inside our little RV. Note that, for safety, we have the requisite detectors (smoke and CO2 up high, propane down low). The heater has an automatic shut off if tipped over; or it can be mounted to a wall.

When driving, we simply use the conventional vehicle heater up front.

When in bed, I put very warm water in 2-liter bottles, wrapped in towels, to keep at feet and sides. I also lay one next to our dog.

Another trick that gets warmth into the RV on especially cold nights, is to heat 4-5 gallons of water in a covered pot. Heat the water to just below boil; the point is to not let any steam escape to increase moisture inside your RV. Not only will heat from the stove immediately help to warm the space, but water is a great thermal collector, releasing its heat slowly. After heating the pot of water, I move it to the floor because warm air rises and it will heat the whole space more evenly when down low.

We've yet to need to run the Wave 3 while sleeping.

I like to have more than one option for a "heater" depending on what I'm doing inside my vehicle at the time.

Please take what works for you and disregard the rest ... YMMV.

Suanne
http://SuanneOnline.blogspot.com

Thanks Suanne. I like all the ideas and I just researched the Wave 3. If I go with a catalytic type heater it will be a Wave as it appears to be the Cadillac. I also checked out your blog. I now have more great reading and a list of excellent links.

 

[Donedirtcheap]

Simple RV Hydronic Heating System (text only)

If this is of interest to anyone, I suggest you copy the image and the text to your computer. I have lost this several times over the last few years. I have all of it saved on my hard drive and hope my hard drive doesn't crap out on me.


Do not read any farther unless you want to know how we are setting up our heat systems (yes, plural)...

This is the simplest fan forced hydronic system I have found. It is the one we based our hydronic system on using an old 6 gal LP water heater from a defunct RV that we added a Camco electric heater to. The fans and "radiator" are part of the original school bus heat system. the two fans are 12vDC and bolted to the heat exchanger. I bought a 7L (110GPH) DC 12V Brushless HHO CPU Cooling Water/oil pump . We plan on filling the water heater with pet safe antifreeze. We will buy a standard White-Rodgers 01C20-101 Mechanical Heat Only Thermostat to turn the fans/pump off/on as needed. This will be our main (ducted) heat system. We will be able to run it on LP or AC. The 12vDC part will run off our battery bank which is on a progressive dynamics smart charger. Unfortunately the cold weather caught up to us before we got the under floor ducts installed. So it will have to wait. We are running two small electric heaters plus a wall mounted DynaGlo Tag-a-long (indoor rated) when it gets too cold for the electric heaters. The Tag-a-long is mounted on a little wall in the bathroom/dressing room area. It is used to warm up the small area for showers. It is capable of heating the back half of the bus quite easily. We have found that the electric heaters stop working very well when temps fall below 40F. I ordered an LP fireplace last night to install in our vintage mantle. This will eventually be our back up heat source as well as for when we only need a bit of heat in the front section of the bus and do not want to heat the whole place (we sleep on a heated mattress pad and keep nighttime temps around 60F). We can be completely powerless and still use the Tag-a-long and the fireplace as heat sources. We will be able to run the hydronic system only on LP and 12VDC (no generator). I like to have options.

ProCom 29 in. Vent-Free Dual Fuel Firebox Insert

---

On edit: How do you edit the image to a smaller size??? This is embarrassing....

---

Wow. What a great post. Thank you very much. I have been pondering the whole heat thing for some time now and run into issues with my ideas. As your link to hydronic heat systems said, RV heaters are terrible and it wakes me up all the time. The few times I can plug in I use a cheap scary electric heater and do consider what Possum said about going to a better oil filled unit. My water heater is under my bed so I thought it would be too noisy if I tapped into it some how but that's not the right approach anyway. Your system of using a dedicated water heater is the way to go. My current heater is under the couch so I need to see if there is enough room to replace it with another water heater. I have had hydronic heat in a house and loved it. I enjoy building things and this would be a very good project for next summer. Thanks again.

 

[Varmint]

You might wanna' use whatever photo/image editor you have and scale it down. "Paint" in Windoze usually has this feature. Same for Linux variants. Then you can put the smaller image on here. I don't know how to edit size here on the forum, but I'll bet Katie could tell you if such a thing exists. I usually resize everything before posting. Just save the smaller image as "imagename2" and post here.

 

[SoulRaven]

Greetings!

I had a friend that tried that design, and the 10 gallon water heater she had was still an insufficient amount of hot water.

We switched hers out with a tankless propane hot water heater, and now her system works really well.

Hope this helps!

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[sparky1]

many Brand of heaters recalled. some are older models too. Please check this out for your safety

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/space-heater-and-water-heater-recalls

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Here we are in March, and tho I realize some parts of the country are cold, we in the southern desert are thinking about cooling ourselves.
Having never spent any time in a van/RV in cold climates, its hard for us to understand the difficulties that people up north face in winter.

Not meant to "dis" anyone, but an old saying...."I can feel ya, just can't quite reach ya" comes to mind.

 

[akrvbob]

Bindi, this has been the single warmest winter I've ever seen in the desert. Believe me, it is very a-typical. Most winters in Quartzsite have a week or two of weather down into the teens where we are all struggling to stay warm. We also haven't had any serious wind storms, again that is very abnormal. My guessing is your time is coming!
Bob

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Hey there Bob,
I'm from the desert southwest and, as Tucson is so close I'm used to our winters. I've seen some worse than this one, but the number of nights/days that get down below freezing are very few compared to places I was referring to.
We don't have continuous cold and snow after snow piling up around us.

Last winter temps dropped to 17 a couple times. It was nothing less than what I might have expected. Those not prepared suffered and waterlines froze causing geysers thruout the area. A few years ago I woke to snow on Easter morning.

Yes, we have a winter and it can get rather uncomfortable, but it doesn't last for days/weeks/months at a time.
Wind...seen more than my share every year down here.

I grew up on a working cattle ranch out there on horseback, so I've lived out here night and day in it with nothing more than I could carry. I've also walked the Sonora Desert with a burro as a prospector for a couple years with nothing more than a canvas for shelter and squaw fire for heat and cooking.

I'm not disputing that this year was mild, but I'd rather deal with here than where some other folks are. 66 years gives me a pretty fair idea of what to expect in this part of the country.

 

[grummy]

Something that fits that OP's desires perfectly is the old reliable Stewart-Warner Firewall mounted Gas heaters from the 30's and 40's. Millions were sold, so they certainly are not hard to find. You can buy new re-manufactured units for around $200.

The good: Small, safe, external combustion design, cheap to operate, uses any flavor of conventional auto gasoline and puts out GOBS of heat for its size according to everyone who has had the top of their leather shoes smoked off when sitting in the passenger seat.

The unknown: ACTUAL BTU output. I'd guess at least 6000 which is plenty for an insulated van, but that's just a guess.

The challenging parts that SHOULD be explored:
1. They used a vacuum source from a RUNNING engine in order to work at all.
2. They were semi-automatic... they had an ignitor to get it lit, but I do not recall that they had a good method of controlling output.

So, the first step would be to find an existing method of creating a vacuum source that could also take the heat from a running burner as the vacuum source on the car was the intake manifold, and as such, IT ALSO WAS the Exhaust (just a 5/16" copper tube) (fuel line was only 1/8" tube). I've picked more than one of these up at swap meets over the years with the intent to explore this exact use, but alas, life is just too dang busy ! I was going to start with a traditional carbon vane style pump as they can run awful hot without damage.... I have a 120v one here I could sacrifice, and if it would work, one would need to locate an adequate 12v equivalent. Because manifold vacuum is not steady, I believe the units ran on little vacuum, which was probably "controlled" by a simple conventional "jet" (really small hole in brass fitting)

Second, you have to incorporate a method of automation. It should not be very difficult to get the unit to automatically cycle, either via simple mechanical relay, or for those more advanced, an inexpensive yet modern 12v PLC.

If those two points could be solved, these would be one of the very the best options for the PO's desires short of a compact biofuel device or a small nuclear reactor. It could run off vehicle tank fuel or an aux tank, and while gasoline seems expensive (its still the biggest bang for your buck), NO fuel is cheap anymore (certainly not propane, diesel or alcohol, so the benefit lies in NOT having to carry 10 different types of fuel... just one. Gasoline.

So, who has the time to figure this out. I'm kind of tied up with life these days.

Here is a link so those who do not know what they are can see them: http://southwindheater.com/Pricing.html

 

[grummy]

>> I've also....... with nothing more than a canvas for shelter and squaw fire for heat and cooking.

Squaw ? Like a lady friend ? Lol ! It is true, two are warmer than one !

>>I'm not disputing that this year was mild, but I'd rather deal with here than where some other folks are.

The low temps in Wisconsin this year have people pretty darn tired of it. Lots more of way below zero than we have had in some time, though It's not the first time by any means. Along with the frigid temps, the news media keeps humping the low information watchers leg with "the great lakes are at record freezing ice levels" as if Armageddon was just around the corner. You would almost think they have an agenda, or, perhaps they are just too lazy to report on the actual facts. Its not "Unusual" when we have seen that it has happened many times in recordable history, and one would have to be daft to forget that the great lakes were FORMED by a Glacier in far, far colder times, long before we had.... well, you know.. don't want to offend the believers.

Now today, with their term of "Record Snowfalls" they are harping on and on about how the water levels are going to go up ! Sheeez, when will they stop acting like nature is a bad thing. Water levels go up and down all over the earth all the time and will continue to do so. We have no evidence that water is escaping the planet..... it just moves around. Its called weather. We had this much snow when I was a kid for many years back to back, and I rode ATC's along the beach as a kid and the water was at least 2 feet higher back then. So, unless some knucklehead built his castle in a flood plane, things should be alright... no need to "panic".

The only thing we the people should be worried about is this bunch of "scientists" who spend their days toying with "heating the ionosphere" (HAARP). Who or what gives them the right ? How does anyone know they are not damaging things they do not understand? How does anyone know that this is not the reason for some of the sharp swings people see ? Right THERE is the first place the so called tree hugger crowd should be focusing right now... but no,,,, crickets.... Not a peep about that. Too busy at the alter of AL I suppose.

"Weather", did not start the day a guy was born. Find some real old timers.... those nearing 100 years old and they will quickly provide a witness to you that whatever your particular weather is, we have been there before....... and we'll probably come full cycle again at some point.

Anyhow, I wish I could be somewhere where it doesn't drop below say 40 degrees as an average... I could easily survive that. But, it would be really tough to survive in a Van or RV when day after day, its not crawling above the zero mark without one major reliable heating system and plenty of cash to feed that rascal with fuel.

The great news is spring is about to .... SPRING up here ! Can't wait to get the truck out.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Grummy, I really don't think I could handle the temps and harsh weather you have up there even if I lived in a house. Gotta go out in it sometimes and I just don't like it at all. I have no use for snow and no desire to shovel the stuff. It amazes me that there are people who are willing to live with it year after year.

LOL, two sure are better than one for more than one reason in certain cases. Sorta hard to find someone of the female gender to wander the desert on foot with a crazy guy and a couple pack burros. Most of them want a bit more than one meal a day of mostly sparse forage and a bird or snake roasted on a stick.
I suppose its something that a snowbound person would find to be as unsavory as my view of their conditions.

Oh, squaw fire...small sticks fed to a fire just big enough to cook a meal. Not much in the way of real firewood to be found much of the time, so dried sticks are constantly added to maintain a flame. Many desert plants consist of mostly oils due to lack of water and burn very quickly. Some add an interesting flavor, but creosote stinks and tastes bad

---

Yeah, the earth changes and water finds its own level.

 

[LeeRevell]

Our north Florida was fairly mild this year, though the cold came in earlier and stayed later than 'normal'. Often in prior winters we'd see a few ays of low twenties to high teens. Never any snow though. This past winter gave us a day/night of actual sleet/ice on the ground, though the temp was 29F.
On a camping trip a few years back, I slept in my Grand Caravan. Had AC power at the CG, so I used a smaller electric heater that kept me comfy - 24F outside and a balmy 66F in the van. The GC has good ventilation - I could feel cool air coming in at the lower rear, through some vent slots.
The little fan heater (got it at Lowes) is thermostat controlled with a tip-over shutoff. Never got hot enough on it's steel case and grill to burn - very safe.
But it won't be nearly enough for my E150 camper project. I have a larger electric heater I use in my bedroom that will be perfect for the big van. I intend to set it into the cabinetry. Use a Buddy heater when AC isn't available.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Lee...it can get quite cold in winter in the desert. This year was relatively mild, with only a couple nights below 30. Last year we saw a few nights (actually 4am-ish) that dropped to 17.
When hooked to elect in the RV, we close the "hall" door and cover windows, including in the cockpit with reflectix and the little quartz heater is good with a sweater.
In bed, I have a woman with hot flashes to keep me warm

Anyhoo...depending on where you spend winters, you may find space better used by storing a small heater under the bed or something other than an install. If you only need a couple nights of extra heat drag out the Buddy (Catalytic propane).

 

[Donedirtcheap]

>> I've also....... with nothing more than a canvas for shelter and squaw fire for heat and cooking.

Squaw ? Like a lady friend ? Lol ! It is true, two are warmer than one !

>>I'm not disputing that this year was mild, but I'd rather deal with here than where some other folks are.

The low temps in Wisconsin this year have people pretty darn tired of it. Lots more of way below zero than we have had in some time, though It's not the first time by any means. Along with the frigid temps, the news media keeps humping the low information watchers leg with "the great lakes are at record freezing ice levels" as if Armageddon was just around the corner. You would almost think they have an agenda, or, perhaps they are just too lazy to report on the actual facts. Its not "Unusual" when we have seen that it has happened many times in recordable history, and one would have to be daft to forget that the great lakes were FORMED by a Glacier in far, far colder times, long before we had.... well, you know.. don't want to offend the believers.

Now today, with their term of "Record Snowfalls" they are harping on and on about how the water levels are going to go up ! Sheeez, when will they stop acting like nature is a bad thing. Water levels go up and down all over the earth all the time and will continue to do so. We have no evidence that water is escaping the planet..... it just moves around. Its called weather. We had this much snow when I was a kid for many years back to back, and I rode ATC's along the beach as a kid and the water was at least 2 feet higher back then. So, unless some knucklehead built his castle in a flood plane, things should be alright... no need to "panic".

The only thing we the people should be worried about is this bunch of "scientists" who spend their days toying with "heating the ionosphere" (HAARP). Who or what gives them the right ? How does anyone know they are not damaging things they do not understand? How does anyone know that this is not the reason for some of the sharp swings people see ? Right THERE is the first place the so called tree hugger crowd should be focusing right now... but no,,,, crickets.... Not a peep about that. Too busy at the alter of AL I suppose.

"Weather", did not start the day a guy was born. Find some real old timers.... those nearing 100 years old and they will quickly provide a witness to you that whatever your particular weather is, we have been there before....... and we'll probably come full cycle again at some point.

Anyhow, I wish I could be somewhere where it doesn't drop below say 40 degrees as an average... I could easily survive that. But, it would be really tough to survive in a Van or RV when day after day, its not crawling above the zero mark without one major reliable heating system and plenty of cash to feed that rascal with fuel.

The great news is spring is about to .... SPRING up here ! Can't wait to get the truck out.

http://www.cheaprvliving.com/blog/

 

[stude53]

Jay, you said:
"In bed, I have a woman with hot flashes to keep me warm. Big Grin

Me, too, but she sure has cold feet!

Bob

 

[WheelEstate USA]

My feet are colder than her's