Golf cart battery vs solar battery

[Miss Judy]

If anyone has any experience using the golf cart battery versus the solar battery could you please tell me a little bit of pros and cons?

I'm preparing to move full-time into my car. A 2003 Buick LeSabre. I am having to go the very cheapest route possible. I spoke with Rusty at SanTan solar today, and I think the 50 watt panel that he has for $20 is what I'm going to get for a panel. 

They don't sell batteries, so I figured I would just get something small like a 12 volt 35 amp hour battery for $66. As I was searching around I came across a golf cart battery for about the same cost. 

Does anyone have any experience with using a golf cart battery? Are they lighter weight? Do they last longer? Are they better in heat than regular solar battery? I know nothing, absolutely nothing about solar, and was just wondering if there was any benefit to choosing a golf cart battery over a regular solar battery.

I think my biggest issue is going to be space. The golf cart batteries look smaller, I was just wondering if they are smaller? And weigh less? Any advice would be very much appreciated. And thanks so much in advance!

 

[Miss Judy]

I should have included that all I'm using solar for will be to charge my cell phone and run my laptop...

I'm also very concerned with toxic gasses, being that it's such a confined space...

 

[Wabbit]

Golf cart batteries are usually 6v, you would need two. If the battery states it's a 12v golf cart battery, then you would need just one. I started with a marine deep cycle battery. Not as robust as the GC Batts, but it would work.

At 50w charging, I don't think you'll need to worry about off gassing if a window or two is cracked(ventilation) while charging.

How many hours a day do you plan on using your laptop?

 

[maki2]

Before you decide on a battery and a solar panel you need to look at some charts and see how long (how many hours of sun) it takes to charge the battery from a specific panel. Then you might also want to have the battery set up so that it can be charged while you are driving. You should have a battery isolator installed for that function. Not every day on the road will be sunny enough to give you a good solar charge.

 

[AuricTech]

The cell phone part is easy: get a 10-20 Watt solar panel with USB outputs and a couple of $15 USB battery packs from Walmart and you should be able to keep your phone charged with little effort and even less space needed.

The laptop part of your requirement depends a lot on how much you use your laptop and how power-hungry it is. 35 Amp-hours of 12V power (of which only 17-18 Ah will be usable, unless you're willing to keep replacing your battery) will give you maybe five to six hours of laptop use, if you're not doing lots of serious data crunching. That 50-Watt panel might only be able to replace three or four hours worth of battery use daily.

Either way, golf cart batteries are generally about three times heavier than the battery you mentioned and need to be mounted in serial pairs to provide 12V power.

 

[Trebor English]

What I did was use my minivan starter battery to charge my phone and power the electric shaver three minutes per day.  Since I limited the over night discharging to just a couple of amp hours, 5% of the battery capacity not 50%, it shortened the battery life just a little bit.  It lasted 35 months but was supposed to be a 36 month battery.  

You need to charge the battery regularly.  If you drive a half hour twice a day like a regular commuter and always charge the electronics while driving plus as needed at night it can work.  A 50 watt solar panel will keep a phone going without driving indefinitely.  You can keep an eye on the battery voltage and keep track of the current use to avoid discharging too much.  

I found that the Ford Windstar electrical system will run down the battery all by itself in a few days so I got a battery disconnect switch.  Now with solar the battery gets charged more than the vehicle uses.  

If your energy use is low you can get by with one battery.  Since 2015 I have not had a case where I ran down the battery and couldn't start the engine.  If you are concerned, get AAA and a lithium jump starter or a separate house battery.  For a tiny load, fearing fumes inside, get an AGM wheelchair battery.  They are about $75 for 35 amp hours.

I have figured out how to do almost all computing using just a phone.  Laptops vary in their power consumption.  If you have a very high power gaming set up you could be in the range of needing a generator.  A 100 watt panel might be all you need.  Maybe just a 50 watt panel.  Try using your phone to see what laptop use you really need.

 

[MrAlvinDude]

Since you state that you have very limited knowledge and no practical experience, I would say that you need to start out with sealed (lead acid) batteries.  They emit no dangerous gases what so ever.

Once you get more experience with your battery solution you might be able to switch to non-sealed batteries (to some they are know as "float"-style batteries).  Non-sealed batteries need a little more knowledge and TLC, but can last longer if they get the right kind of TLC.
But non-sealed batteries will emit some level of (unhealthy) gases while they are being charged. Experienced users will tell you that they have no problems dealing with this gas issue. But I would leave non-sealed batteries to the daring, adventures or experienced crowd.


Sealed (lead acid) batteries are typically labeled AGM or GEL, but ask at the store where you choose to buy.

For any kind of lead acid battery (a sealed AGM or GEL or simply "sealed"), it is also highly recommended that you as a minimum get a voltage indicator, to make sure that you do not over-discharge (over-use) the battery. Over-discharging a 12V lead acid battery (sealed and non-sealed alike) will shorten the lifespan. Likewise not getting it fully charged weekly will also shorten the lifespan of 12V lead acid battery.

When I say shorten the lifespan, it would typically mean that it might last for 2-3 years under "normal" use, but could be shortened to 1 year (or in bad situations to less than 1 year) if it gets over-discharge too often.

So for a beginner lead acid battery, I would say that anything over 1 year of life span is good. And during that year, you will get much more practical experience about the "personality" quirks of the 12V  lead acid  type of batteries.

Measuring the voltage of a lead acid battery is not the optimal way to monitor it, but it will give you a very good (and cheap) beginners method of how to monitor your treatment and use of your battery. 
And it can help you to avoid the biggest "got'ya" issues that all beginners of small house batteries face. 


It might be worth considering other battery options.
What you might want to also consider is those USB power banks. Because they use a different chemistry than the lead acid batteries, they do not suffer from the same "personality" quirks that a lead acid battery suffers from.

So those USB power banks, they can not be over-charged, can not be over-discharged, nor do they mind not getting fully charged weekly.
So like it has already been mentioned, for dealing with keeping your phone charged, a good USB power bank might be just right for you.

Unfortunately I do not know of any USB power bank style solutions for a laptop. Otherwise this would be ideal for your purposes.

The closest I can think of, is the Jackery Battery packs. But they have an entirely different price tag.
I would however still highly recommend this type of battery pack to anyone with the limited power needs that you mention, and with the limited experience of how to keep a 12V lead acid battery alive as long as possible, that you also mention.


With all of that said - back to your original questions:

What type of lead acid battery is the best kind for use as a "house" battery (or as some also call it, an auxiliary battery) ?

Golf cart batteries (are typically 6V batteries with a lot of amp hours (Ah) ), batteries for mobility scooters (are typically 12V batteries, but typically with less amp hours than golf cart batteries), deep cycle batteries,  and marine-style batteries are all supposed to be better at being used as a house battery, than a regular starter battery. And (in general) I would also say that the order (Golf-cart, mobility-scooter, true deep cycle, marine)  can be used as a very general order for longest lasting house batteries.

That is, when we are talking about lead acid type of batteries.

Likewise, the amount of lead (meaning weight) can usually also be used as an indicator to how truthful the labels on the outside of the battery are.
So if one battery claims the same number of Amp hours  (Ah) as another, but there is a big difference in weight, then I would be very skeptic how they managed to get to get those numbers, and I would be quite surprised if your every-day use, would give you similar optimistic results.

So, in general, the heavier (lead acid) battery will simply also be able to store more energy.


Golf cart batteries can be sealed, but many are non-sealed types. So make sure you get the sealed, and 12V, type of golf cart batteries. Okay? 

Mobility scooter batteries are virtually always sealed batteries. 

AGM and GEL batteries are always sealed batteries. 



Sorry about the rather long story, but I hope it still makes sense to a beginner 'house battery user'.

 

[Miss Judy]

Golf cart batteries are usually 6v, you would need two. If the battery states it's a 12v golf cart battery, then you would need just one. I started with a marine deep cycle battery. Not as robust as the GC Batts, but it would work.

At 50w charging, I don't think you'll need to worry about off gassing if a window or two is cracked(ventilation) while charging.

How many hours a day do you plan on using your laptop?

I plan on using my laptop maybe 1 to 2 hours a day - possibly more... who knows... 
My car battery is under the back seat... there seems to be plenty of room under my seat for another battery... is under the seat too closed up (no ventilation or air flow for the battery)? I will be sleeping on my back seat, would my body heat and it being all confined under the seat make it too hot? and would there be any complications with having two different types of batteries next to each other? 
(please forgive me if these are idiotic questions... I am very ignorant when it comes to this stuff...)

 

[Miss Judy]

Before you decide on a battery and a solar panel you need to look at some charts and see how long (how many hours of sun) it takes to charge the battery from a specific panel. Then you might also want to have the battery set up  so that it can be charged while you are driving. You should have a battery isolator installed for that function. Not every day on the road will be sunny enough to give you a good solar charge.

Please forgive me - but I don't want to hassle with charts and panels and isolators... I figure if what I can afford to buy and have isn't producing enough power, then I will do without out until I charge up enough.  My cigarette lighter in my car does not work, so I can't charge my phone that way... and figured I should have solar mainly for my phone....   

My brain turns into a big squishy jelly fish when  trying to comprehend anything solar...  I was hoping (and praying) that I could just get a battery, a panel, an inverter, cables to hook them all together and it would work....  I just have to have something horribly, horribly simple... is that too simple?

 

[Miss Judy]

The cell phone part is easy: get a 10-20 Watt solar panel with USB outputs and a couple of $15 USB battery packs from Walmart and you should be able to keep your phone charged with little effort and even less space needed.

The laptop part of your requirement depends a lot on how much you use your laptop and how power-hungry it is. 35 Amp-hours of 12V power (of which only 17-18 Ah will be usable, unless you're willing to keep replacing your battery) will give you maybe five to six hours of laptop use, if you're not doing lots of serious data crunching. That 50-Watt panel might only be able to replace three or four hours worth of battery use daily.

Either way, golf cart batteries are generally about three times heavier than the battery you mentioned and need to be mounted in serial pairs to provide 12V power.

Oh... OK!  I only thought golf cart batteries must be better in some way, because that's what Mr. Bob Wells uses...  I can't imagine using my laptop for 5 or 6 hours at a time!  LOL  but you have really given me some wonderful information!  Thank you!  I definitely do not want heavier!  Thank you again!

 

[Miss Judy]

What I did was use my minivan starter battery to charge my phone and power the electric shaver three minutes per day.  Since I limited the over night discharging to just a couple of amp hours, 5% of the battery capacity not 50%, it shortened the battery life just a little bit.  It lasted 35 months but was supposed to be a 36 month battery.  

You need to charge the battery regularly.  If you drive a half hour twice a day like a regular commuter and always charge the electronics while driving plus as needed at night it can work.  A 50 watt solar panel will keep a phone going without driving indefinitely.  You can keep an eye on the battery voltage and keep track of the current use to avoid discharging too much.  

I found that the Ford Windstar electrical system will run down the battery all by itself in a few days so I got a battery disconnect switch.  Now with solar the battery gets charged more than the vehicle uses.  

If your energy use is low you can get by with one battery.  Since 2015 I have not had a case where I ran down the battery and couldn't start the engine.  If you are concerned, get AAA and a lithium jump starter or a separate house battery.  For a tiny load, fearing fumes inside, get an AGM wheelchair battery.  They are about $75 for 35 amp hours.

I have figured out how to do almost all computing using just a phone.  Laptops vary in their power consumption.  If you have a very high power gaming set up you could be in the range of needing a generator.  A 100 watt panel might be all you need.  Maybe just a 50 watt panel.  Try using your phone to see what laptop use you really need.

Excellent, excellent information!  Thank you.  I had to read - and re-read this several time to try and understand everything (jellyfish brain when it comes to solar).   I love the idea of the wheelchair battery!  Thank you again 

 

[Trebor English]

You can get from amazon a 12 volt "car charger" for most laptops.  That would make it easier.  One 12 volt supply for the cell phone car charger and the laptop car charger.  You would need no inverter.  All you would need is a portable solar panel with controller glued on to the back, the wheelchair battery, and the 12 volt car chargers.  

If you use and charge the laptop while the sun shines it would have no impact on the battery.

I don't know about your laptop.  At Amazon I typed in "dell inspiron car" and Amazon provided "charger".   There are many listed.  Your model number would be what you want to go by.  
https://www.amazon.com/CHARGER-Dell...n+car+charger&qid=1560280932&s=gateway&sr=8-3
Make sure the picture shows a cigarette lighter plug and the text says the input is 12 volts not 120.

To actually connect to the battery you can use this socket with wire.
https://www.amazon.com/CUZEC-Extens...volt+cigarette+lighter+adapter,aps,170&sr=8-4

This one gives two sockets and t USB phone jacks.  Get someone to cut the plug off and connect it directly to the battery.
https://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-2-Soc...olt+cigarette+lighter+adapter,aps,170&sr=8-10

The Amazon DOKIO folding 100 watt solar panel kit might be good.  I got a rigid glass front panel for $100 and a charge controller for $15.  
https://www.amazon.com/DOKIO-Monocr...x=folding+solar,aps,489&sr=8-3#detail-bullets

So you need
$75.00   battery
$25.00   laptop car charger
$15.00   socket and cord
$150.00 solar panel with controller.  
$265 total.

Instead of a car charger for your laptop you could use an inverter to make 120 volts to feed your laptop with the power supply it came with.  They don't make car chargers for some computers.  

Different people learn differently.  Some people do best with reading text.  Some people need pictures.  Some people learn best listening to spoken words asking questions, hearing answers.  If you think you might be in the last group send me a PM.  I will respond with my phone number.  Then you can call, ask, hear answers.  That might help with the jellyfish.

 

[highdesertranger]

first off fix your cigarette lighter.

if you are going to be the power company you better have at least a working knowledge on how everything works. if you don't what are you going to do when you have a problem?

highdesertranger

 

[maki2]

Some of the newer computers have USB C PD (Power Delivery) ports. The Dell computer I bought a year and a half ago has one. The great thing with that port is that you don't need one of the big bulky power adapter bricks to charge it. You can instead install a 12v USB C power delivery port in your vehicle. The ones for computers are higher in wattage than the ones for phones and tablets. So do check with the company that makes the device you want to charge to see what the appropriate wattage is.

But don't forget if you are out and about for coffee or visiting a library that you can take advantage of their plug ins. Many times coffee shops are friendly and have a few outlets scattered around for customer convenience.

 

[B and C]

The cigarette lighter being dead may be as simple as a blown fuse in the fuse panel. Your owners manual should tell you where the fuse panel is. Take the cover off and the cover usually has a diagram stating which fuse controls what. This is a great beginner step in learning about your vehicle's electrical.

 

[Miss Judy]

Since you state that you have very limited knowledge and no practical experience, I would say that you need to start out with sealed (lead acid) batteries.  They emit no dangerous gases what so ever.

Once you get more experience with your battery solution you might be able to switch to non-sealed batteries (to some they are know as "float"-style batteries).  Non-sealed batteries need a little more knowledge and TLC, but can last longer if they get the right kind of TLC.
But non-sealed batteries will emit some level of (unhealthy) gases while they are being charged. Experienced users will tell you that they have no problems dealing with this gas issue. But I would leave non-sealed batteries to the daring, adventures or experienced crowd.


Sealed (lead acid) batteries are typically labeled AGM or GEL, but ask at the store where you choose to buy.

For any kind of lead acid battery (a sealed AGM or GEL or simply "sealed"), it is also highly recommended that you as a minimum get a voltage indicator, to make sure that you do not over-discharge (over-use) the battery. Over-discharging a 12V lead acid battery (sealed and non-sealed alike) will shorten the lifespan. Likewise not getting it fully charged weekly will also shorten the lifespan of 12V lead acid battery.

When I say shorten the lifespan, it would typically mean that it might last for 2-3 years under "normal" use, but could be shortened to 1 year (or in bad situations to less than 1 year) if it gets over-discharge too often.

So for a beginner lead acid battery, I would say that anything over 1 year of life span is good. And during that year, you will get much more practical experience about the "personality" quirks of the 12V  lead acid  type of batteries.

Measuring the voltage of a lead acid battery is not the optimal way to monitor it, but it will give you a very good (and cheap) beginners method of how to monitor your treatment and use of your battery. 
And it can help you to avoid the biggest "got'ya" issues that all beginners of small house batteries face. 


It might be worth considering other battery options.
What you might want to also consider is those USB power banks. Because they use a different chemistry than the lead acid batteries, they do not suffer from the same "personality" quirks that a lead acid battery suffers from.

So those USB power banks, they can not be over-charged, can not be over-discharged, nor do they mind not getting fully charged weekly.
So like it has already been mentioned, for dealing with keeping your phone charged, a good USB power bank might be just right for you.

Unfortunately I do not know of any USB power bank style solutions for a laptop. Otherwise this would be ideal for your purposes.

The closest I can think of, is the Jackery Battery packs. But they have an entirely different price tag.
I would however still highly recommend this type of battery pack to anyone with the limited power needs that you mention, and with the limited experience of how to keep a 12V lead acid battery alive as long as possible, that you also mention.


With all of that said - back to your original questions:

What type of lead acid battery is the best kind for use as a "house" battery (or as some also call it, an auxiliary battery) ?

Golf cart batteries (are typically 6V batteries with a lot of amp hours (Ah) ), batteries for mobility scooters (are typically 12V batteries, but typically with less amp hours than golf cart batteries), deep cycle batteries,  and marine-style batteries are all supposed to be better at being used as a house battery, than a regular starter battery. And (in general) I would also say that the order (Golf-cart, mobility-scooter, true deep cycle, marine)  can be used as a very general order for longest lasting house batteries.

That is, when we are talking about lead acid type of batteries.

Likewise, the amount of lead (meaning weight) can usually also be used as an indicator to how truthful the labels on the outside of the battery are.
So if one battery claims the same number of Amp hours  (Ah) as another, but there is a big difference in weight, then I would be very skeptic how they managed to get to get those numbers, and I would be quite surprised if your every-day use, would give you similar optimistic results.

So, in general, the heavier (lead acid) battery will simply also be able to store more energy.


Golf cart batteries can be sealed, but many are non-sealed types. So make sure you get the sealed, and 12V, type of golf cart batteries. Okay? 

Mobility scooter batteries are virtually always sealed batteries. 

AGM and GEL batteries are always sealed batteries. 



Sorry about the rather long story, but I hope it still makes sense to a beginner 'house battery user'.

Excellent information! I've started taking notes on all of this wonderful information everyone is giving me. So if I have this right, no battery from Harbor Freight for $69 is perfect! It is sealed and it is a 12-volt. Someone up above head said that the golf cart batteries are very heavy and the majority are not 12 volt so I would need to get to so golf cart batteries are out. I'm tempted if that USB power bank is not very expensive I'm tempted to both, the Harbor Freight battery and the USB power bank.

Now the voltage indicator thing, is that something that stays attached to the battery all the time and has a digital panel like I see in a lot of videos? Or is that an instrument that has the two clips that you touch to the battery post?

Really great information! Thank you so much.

 

[Miss Judy]

You can get from amazon a 12 volt "car charger" for most laptops.  That would make it easier.  One 12 volt supply for the cell phone car charger and the laptop car charger.  You would need no inverter.  All you would need is a portable solar panel with controller glued on to the back, the wheelchair battery, and the 12 volt car chargers.  

If you use and charge the laptop while the sun shines it would have no impact on the battery.

I don't know about your laptop.  At Amazon I typed in "dell inspiron car" and Amazon provided "charger".   There are many listed.  Your model number would be what you want to go by.  
https://www.amazon.com/CHARGER-Dell...n+car+charger&qid=1560280932&s=gateway&sr=8-3
Make sure the picture shows a cigarette lighter plug and the text says the input is 12 volts not 120.

To actually connect to the battery you can use this socket with wire.
https://www.amazon.com/CUZEC-Extens...volt+cigarette+lighter+adapter,aps,170&sr=8-4

This one gives two sockets and t USB phone jacks.  Get someone to cut the plug off and connect it directly to the battery.
https://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-2-Soc...olt+cigarette+lighter+adapter,aps,170&sr=8-10

The Amazon DOKIO folding 100 watt solar panel kit might be good.  I got a rigid glass front panel for $100 and a charge controller for $15.  
https://www.amazon.com/DOKIO-Monocr...x=folding+solar,aps,489&sr=8-3#detail-bullets

So you need
$75.00   battery
$25.00   laptop car charger
$15.00   socket and cord
$150.00 solar panel with controller.  
$265 total.

Instead of a car charger for your laptop you could use an inverter to make 120 volts to feed your laptop with the power supply it came with.  They don't make car chargers for some computers.  

Different people learn differently.  Some people do best with reading text.  Some people need pictures.  Some people learn best listening to spoken words asking questions, hearing answers.  If you think you might be in the last group send me a PM.  I will respond with my phone number.  Then you can call, ask, hear answers.  That might help with the jellyfish.

Thank you so much for all of this information. I'm taking notes but so much of this is just beyond me! If I understand this right you think I should get something different to plug into my cigarette lighter for my laptop? But my cigarette lighter in my car does not work. And I'm very worried about putting any extra pull on my car battery because it is always dying!

And if I understand the other part, about the car charger? I could always use a car charger! Especially because my battery in my car dies so often. Is there such a thing as a solar car charger for a car battery?!

 

[Miss Judy]

first off fix your cigarette lighter.

if you are going to be the power company you better have at least a working knowledge on how everything works.  if you don't what are you going to do when you have a problem?

highdesertranger

I agree 100%! I have been watching all kinds of YouTube videos about why my new battery keeps dying and will start immediately watching videos on how to fix my cigarette lighter. But really great suggestion! And I need to stop being so ignorant! Thank you for your comment.

 

[Miss Judy]

The cigarette lighter being dead may be as simple as a blown fuse in the fuse panel.  Your owners manual should tell you where the fuse panel is.  Take the cover off and the cover usually has a diagram stating which fuse controls what.  This is a great beginner step in learning about your vehicle's electrical.

Oh thank you!  Excellent suggestion!

 

[Miss Judy]

Some of the newer computers have USB C PD (Power Delivery) ports. The Dell computer I bought a year and a half ago has one. The great thing with that port is that you don't need one of the big bulky power adapter bricks to charge it. You can instead install a 12v USB C power delivery port in your vehicle. The ones for computers are higher in wattage than the ones for phones and tablets.  So do check with the company that makes the device you want to charge to see what the appropriate wattage is.

But don't forget if you are out and about for coffee or visiting a library that you can take advantage of their plug ins. Many times coffee shops are friendly and have a few outlets scattered around for customer convenience.

Good suggestion, thank you!