furnace heater installation.....

[huskydriver]

I have a few questions about installing a propane Suburban NT-16 furnace heater in a Ford Transit T350.  Where is the best place to port the exhaust and intake on this van.  Also, should I get the non ducted furnace?  Thanks in advance.

Rich

 

[Almost There]

Most all of us do not use a suburban furnace in our vans. They are fairly big units taking up much needed space and require plumbed in propane tanks and exterior venting as well as 12V electric hookups for the ignition and fan. The fan on them is also a power hog so it requires you to either be hooked up to shore power or have an extensive solar and battery system.

Even the people with commercially made RVs that boondock soon learn to live without their built in furnaces and turn to using portable heaters like the Mr. Buddy. Mr. Buddys' shouldn't be run while you're sleeping but there are other outside vented propane heaters that with proper installation and CO detectors can be run through the night.

 

[debit.servus]

How much more energy does the ignition and fan actually use over the Propex, Webasto or Espar units? And what percentage of heat is blown outside with the exhaust gases? Is this a small percentage?

I ask because everyone shoots down conventional RV furnaces because of inefficiency, and it could be overblown.

 

[tx2sturgis]

In a van conversion, you will need to penetrate the side of the van for the vents, and a non-ducted model will usually be sufficient. 

Typical RV furnaces are about 70% efficient, which is low compared to many other options on the market. They tend to consume propane at a pretty high rate. With a 16,000 BTU furnace you will actually have about 11,200 BTU of actual heating. The rest is wasted heat exiting thru the vent.

16,000 BTU is probably overkill for a well-insulated van, but maybe you will be staying in very cold locations much of the season.

RV furnaces are also noisy, they consume a fair amount of DC power to run the blower, may operate erractically or not at all when battery voltage drops, take up a fair amount of space, and can be hard (for the end user) to diagnose when things go wrong.

BUT...they are very safe if installed correctly, and of course super easy to operate, just move a lever on a thermostat to warm things up.

.

 

[bullfrog]

I seem to remember some older truck camper versions that did not have a fan which might work if you could find one.

 

[B and C]

I have one in my Roadtrek and use it all the time. If I have shore power I use an electric heater.

The 16K Suburban draws about 3.5 amps if I remember correctly. It doesn't run very long or very often. I have never had a problem but I do have 350 Ah of battery and 200 watts of permanently mounted solar and another 200 watts portable if I get in a bind (with generator backup to that). To me it sips propane. Propane also runs my fridge, hot water heater and I cook with it too. My propane tank holds 10 gallons and I only fill it once a month. It takes about 6-7 gallons to fill it at that point. I really love the convenience and dry heat. There are times I hold my feet to it to warm them up. They really aren't that large. My furnace and hot water heater are both under a seat with space for my water pump too. I even store a few small items in there with them.

 

[ssminnow]

The first thing for me is going to be Solar Panels on the roof and everything else on the roof is going to have to fit in whats left.
That may mean that intakes and vents will be on the sides of the vehicle.
From what I've seen on here there maybe some room between the solar panel and the roof for a fan but I will be fine putting the vents up in the corners on the side of the vehicle.
I really don't want to cut holes in the roof if i don't have to.
Sorry folks but i kind of went off track here. i apologize!!

 

[huskydriver]

Most all of us do not use a suburban furnace in our vans. They are fairly big units taking up much needed space and require plumbed in propane tanks and exterior venting as well as 12V electric hookups for the ignition and fan. The fan on them is also a power hog so it requires you to either be hooked up to shore power or have an extensive solar and battery system.

Even the people with commercially made RVs that boondock soon learn to live without their built in furnaces and turn to using portable heaters like the Mr. Buddy. Mr. Buddys' shouldn't be run while you're sleeping but there are other outside vented propane heaters that with proper installation and CO detectors can be run through the night.

I've been using a portable buddy heater for the past two years.  I do xc ski races and dog sled racing so I spend most of the winter in the upper midwest.  The portable buddy has served me well.  I've spent many a night in single digit temps with no issues as far as heat is concerned.   My problelm lies in the amount of moisture collected on the inside of the windshield and I'm not even sure about the ceiling.  I did have an issue in the spring where I noticed water collecting in one area.  I figured it might be from my ventilation fan leaking, but that wasn't it.  I think it was collecting somewhere in the ribs or from somewhere in the ceiling.  The other problem I have is that I travel with several dogs and worried they could knock it over.  I haven't had any problems though since it's got a safety if it gets knocked over or jarred.  My biggest issue like I said is just the amount of moisture built up in the van.  I do have a ventilation van although it's not hooked up as I haven't installed my house battery yet.  Will running the ventilation fan draw enough of the moist air to really notice a difference?  When coming in from a long ski or training the dogs it just seems like a lot of moist air.

 

[highdesertranger]

sounds like a nice "dry heat" source is what you need. have you also looked into the parking heaters? highdesertranger

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've been using a portable buddy heater for the past two years.   I do xc ski races and dog sled racing so I spend most of the winter in the upper midwest.  The portable buddy has served me well.  I've spent many a night in single digit temps with no issues as far as heat is concerned.   My problelm lies in the amount of moisture collected on the inside of the windshield and I'm not even sure about the ceiling . . . Will running the ventilation fan draw enough of the moist air to really notice a difference?  When coming in from a long ski or training the dogs it just seems like a lot of moist air.

Simple answer is no.  I also ski and snowshoe in below freezing temperatures and have never been able to get an internally vented heater to work.  When I get to somewhere around +20ºF I have to exhaust so much warm, moist air that the heat source can't keep up.

More complicated answer is it depends on how much propane you need to burn to keep warm, which depends on the temperature differential and heat loss through the walls of your van.

Burning a pound of propane creates 1.6 pounds of water vapor (a little less than a quart).  Combine that with you're breathing and sweating about a pint of water per 12 hours when at rest.  That is a lot of water vapor to get rid of and a lot of heat goes out the vent with it.  At some temperature (dependent on a number of factors) to keep the relative humidity below the dew point of the walls the amount of heat that goes out with the vented water vapor is equal to the heat generated by the heater.

 

[tx2sturgis]

sounds like a nice "dry heat" source is what you need.  have you also looked into the parking heaters?   

Chinese clones of the bunk heaters have come down in price...I'm seeing them online for $200-$400 in some cases.

Quality and reliability are probably not as good as the name brands, but might be worth a look.

 

[huskydriver]

Chinese clones of the bunk heaters have come down in price...I'm seeing them online for $200-$400 in some cases.

Quality and reliability are probably not as good as the name brands, but might be worth a look.

 you got a link to some of those heaters?

 

[highdesertranger]

I am really surprised at the willingness to except these knock off heaters, when a malfunction can cost you your life. highdesertranger

 

[deadwood]

I use the Dickinson propane fireplace. It works great but I don't know how well it would work as a cold winter heater. I'm on the west coast this winter and don't expect to see temps drop below 30*. So far my use the Dickson works great. It is externally vented through the roof so there is no moisture buildup. The fan is a 12v computer fan built in so it doesn't use up anything measurable in the way of electricity. I do have an external propane tank installed under the van so running out of fuel is not a problem.

If I were to be in much colder climates like some others stay in I might have looked for a different heater. For portability and ease of use I would have considered the Wave heater. But just like the Mr Buddy you always have to deal with moisture issue. An electric heater that can be plugged in would be the best choice. But I don't see many on the forum that are hooking up at pay camp sights too often so it's barely worth mentioning.

There are so many different heating options but it really comes down to what your winter climate is and how complicated or simple you want it to be. I like to be where the weather is nice all year (I'm in LA this winter) so most of the time having a heater isn't really an issue. If it gets cold I put a jacket on. Cold at night I put an extra blanket on. But when I'm in the van on a cold rainy day like today (even in LA) it is a treat to have a heater going and being more on the toasty warm side of things.

 

[Riverman]

That Dickinson has absolutely no fumes inside the vehicle.... correct?

 

[66788]

I am really surprised at the willingness to except these knock off heaters,  when a malfunction can cost you your life.  highdesertranger

Agreed!  That's why I bought the Propex HS2800 for my build.  I'd like to live long enough to use it when I'm finished!

 

[flying kurbmaster]

That Dickinson has absolutely no fumes inside the vehicle.... correct?

Correct they make a 9000 btu and a 12000 btu both vented with a double walled chimney pipe, air comes in and out the same pipe. I have the 12000 it is a bit pricey to run, 4bls 28 hrs. the fan is noisy but otherwise it works great, heats up fast, I have never used it in real cold conditions, coldest I have been in is low 20s and not a problem t-shirt on low. No covers on windows. When on low you don’t have to use the fan if you don’t want to, but you loose a bit of efficiency, The fan is variable speed so you can turn it down pretty slow so it is not as noisy.

 

[highdesertranger]

kurbmaster what is 4bls? highdesertranger

 

[tx2sturgis]

4 barrel carburetor?

 

[abnorm]

bls = lbs...……………….pounds