Full-time Van life w/ occasional Intl. Travel vs. Full-time Intl. Travel

[AntiGroundhogDay]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]If you look at my posts over time you may see that some days I'm planning for full-timing w/ a GF (vehicle of choice was a RAM Promaster), and sometimes I am planning for going at it alone in a RAV4 Hybrid.  Well these days I'm single and I foresee staying single for a good long time,[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] [/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]but[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] [/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]with that said I've got a new wrinkle.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I'm nearing retirement in the next year or so and I'll be in my 40s and I'll have completely passive income.  I'm still in decent shape to be mobile and now that the GF has moved on and there is no dog to consider, it has opened up the possibility to start retired life traveling full-time outside the US in a backpack or perhaps some carry on luggage.  I'm not sure if I'll be hitting up Hostels and moving quickly or practicing "Slow Travel" where I get an AirBnb for a month or more in a city, but I see pros and cons. to starting off full-timing internationally vs. full-time van[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] [/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]life with a yearly/occasionally trip overseas (like more "regular people").[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I was wondering if anyone else had considered these two lifestyles (I realize we're van life focused here, but INTL travel in the right countries can be budget friendly also)?[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Some topics that come to mind in no particular order:[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]- Car depreciation/costs.  If one were to start with[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] [/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif](single) full-timing in a vehicle and then wanted to venture overseas w/ a backpack, that vehicle needs yearly maintenance even if it is sitting 99% of the time, it needs registration fees paid, it needs insurance premiums paid, it needs perhaps storage fees or hassle to store it and rely on friends/family, and of course the vehicle depreciated a tiny bit each year even if it's putting on the miles.  All these things add up to a decent chunk of change each month.  If one started w/ a backpack and a plane ticket vs. a vehicle for travel in the US, I would not have these "running costs."[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]- When we're young we're generally in better health and able to walk around a city, hike to a waterfall, et cetera.  When we're young we generally has less fear of being in foreign environments.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]- Culture Fatigue.  As I understand it, for folks who spend ~too~ much time outside their culture they can fatigue.  Perhaps they do not speak the native language, maybe they get lonely or feel isolated (especially if doing it solo like me), or maybe they miss family or or creature comforts.  If this were the case, may full-timing in a the US with the occasional INTL trip would suit most folks better?[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]- If one were to travel full-time internationally, when you return "home," maybe to a friend of family member's house where you have some belongings, you have no transportation.  That's fine if "home" is a big city where there is proper public transportation, but if you're in a suburban or rural area, at most it'll cost you a rental car for the amount of time you are there and at least it is an inconvenience to friends/family to lend you a car, and I know we all like to be as self-sufficient as possible.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]- I have heard if you cancel car insurance and have a large gap to travel ,internationally for a few years,  even if you're a great driver with a long record over the years, your premiums could go up.  I've heard you can move to a non-driver policy, but surely that still costs something. [/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]- Budget?  I have a very good idea of my budget for full timing in North America, but Intl. travel costs can be ~so~  varied depending on how often you move around, how you travel (flights, trains, bus), what type of accommodation (AirBnb, Hostels, etc.), first world vs. third world countries and a who slew of other things. It all depends with intl. travel and for a planner like me, that's a pain though I would venture to say it can be as cheap or cheaper than van life depending on how you play your cards.[/font]

Anyone else gone through this thought process?  Has INTL travel even peaked your interest?  Anyone done it for an extended period of time?  Additional things to consider?  Thanks.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

Well, certainly lots to consider there. Don't think that a budgeting or accounting perspective is going to give you the answers that you seek.
What do YOU want to do and then how much will it cost is a better way to look at it. Doesn't have to be either or, can be both.
The obvious question you appear to be asking is what can you afford? We don't know. Do your calculations and spreadsheets to find out what is possible for you.
There are international travel forums to give you costs and ideas on that. I like horizons unlimited and adventure Rider, international motorcycle touring based. Am sure a quick Google search will bring up more specific to your desires.
International travel will open your eyes to much more history, culture, nature and variety. A National Geographic expedition if you will. Can be done on a budget and you're still young enough at 40.
Fyi, the long way down motorcycle documentary travels through Africa by motorcycle and they cross paths with a guy jogging cross the continent hauling a cart of water through the desert. Many possibilities fyi.
North America has great beauty of course and expansive. Other factors to consider that Europe and the exchange is favorable at the moment. Wasn't as much a few years ago when I did it. This is the golden age of travel right now with more affordability, openness than ever. Will it always be so?
Nationally will always be there barring a revolution, lol. Take a trip, exhaust that wanderlust, then get a van and hit the road. Or vise versa. Or combo. Whatever works for you and your ever changing situation and life.
A few points to consider.
Savor and enjoy your life.

 

[AntiGroundhogDay]

Thank you for the thoughtful response. Perhaps I will try to establish a reasonable INTL travel budget first. If it works out to be a ton cheaper than the other option I'll try it. Heck, if I get lonely and hate it, can always fly home and hang with Mom while I hunt for a vehicle to fulltime in.

 

[Presteaux!]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] it needs registration fees paid, it needs insurance premiums paid, it needs perhaps storage fees or hassle to store it and rely on friends/family, and of course the vehicle depreciated a tiny bit each year even if it's putting on the miles.  All these things add up to a decent chunk of change each month.[/font]

First, why not just sell it?  Second, I have a car in the garage that has not moved in years.  No registration.  I have "storage" insurance on it that costs much less than regular insurance.  So if you were to keep the vehicle in storage, you could drop the registration and then re-register it when needed.  You might not even need insurance depending on the insurance that the storage facility carries.
But if the vehicle doesn't have sentimental value or if it's not some kind of collectible vehicle, just sell it and buy something else when you need it.

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]- Culture Fatigue.  As I understand it, for folks who spend ~too~ much time outside their culture they can fatigue.  Perhaps they do not speak the native language, maybe they get lonely or feel isolated (especially if doing it solo like me), or maybe they miss family or or creature comforts.  If this were the case, may full-timing in a the US with the occasional INTL trip would suit most folks better?[/font]

I was stationed overseas for a couple of years.  I did not consciously experience culture fatigue, but looking back I can see that I probably did.  I would not have known it at the time.  That being said, I enjoyed my time overseas more than most of the guys I was there with.  I think it's because I embraced the culture and learned to speak quite a bit of the language.  Seems like I got a lot of respect from the locals by learning to speak their language.

Oh, and learn it correctly.  What I mean by that is that other languages have a different sentence structure.  What I mean is that when you say in English, "Hey, look at that horse!" in the other language it could be structured more like, "Hey, horse look at it."

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]- If one were to travel full-time internationally, when you return "home," maybe to a friend of family member's house where you have some belongings, you have no transportation.  That's fine if "home" is a big city where there is proper public transportation, but if you're in a suburban or rural area, at most it'll cost you a rental car for the amount of time you are there and at least it is an inconvenience to friends/family to lend you a car, and I know we all like to be as self-sufficient as possible.[/font]

Or buy a really cheap car and then sell it when you head back out.

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]- Budget?  I have a very good idea of my budget for full timing in North America, but Intl. travel costs can be ~so~  varied depending on how often you move around, how you travel (flights, trains, bus), what type of accommodation (AirBnb, Hostels, etc.), first world vs. third world countries and a who slew of other things. It all depends with intl. travel and for a planner like me, that's a pain though I would venture to say it can be as cheap or cheaper than van life depending on how you play your cards.[/font]

I have looked at retiring in The Philippines or Thailand.  From what I gather, one can live like a king on $750 per month there--if they don't go out drinking too much.  I imagine there are other East Asian countries that would also be just as affordable.  Not Japan, though.  Japan is expensive.

 

[skyl4rk]

$1,000 per person per month should keep a frugal couple in an airbnb apartment with restaurant food several times a week in southern Italy. That does not include airfare to get there.

 

[QinReno]

@AGD, from the sounds of it, you will apparently have enough income after retirement to get by, as long as being frugal. Here are possibilities from my experiences.

(a) in the 1990s, I lived and traveled in europe for about 18-months total. The train system over there is so phenomenal that, in general, you will not even need a car. If you live out of town, there are bus services everywheres, geared to the needs of the locals. At the time, rooms were "much" cheaper in southern europe (Spain, Italy, Greece) than northern, but since they all joined the Euro, it's not so good anymore.

(b) however, in smaller towns and especially on the islands in Greece, many private homes have rooms to let, and you can probably get a very good deal by offering them 1-month's rent upfront. Eg, "here is $400 in cash". They'll think you're a god. OTOH, if you move every couple of days, it will cost much more.

(c) another possibility is half and half. 6-months in europe/etc as described above, alternating with 6-months traveling in your van in the US. That would be a phenomenal life. The Mediterranean in winter and the mountain west in summer.

(d) when I retired, my initial scheme was to move around the US west, renting apartments for 6-months or a year at a time. Then make trips around the nearby areas. I did that for 2-years and it was very enjoyable.

(e) when I came to Reno, the real estate crash was still underway (latest longer in NV than in most states), and I was able to buy a (very small) condo at 1/3 the price it had sold for several years earlier. Real estate values have recovered now (and I couldn't afford to buy my condo in today's market), but I had thought about going back to the 6-months at a time renting on the side just for travel. Then I decided to buy my van.

(f) so this is good, I have a cheap home base and a cheap way to travel. I figure the van saves me $2,000 a month on motels. I should also think it's still somewhat inexpensive to live in a small town where the population has been decreasing (which is basically the entire US as people move to the cities and small towns are dying), and use this as a home base for travel in your van.

(g) I don't think I would want to live in Thailand or any other country run by a military dictatorship. 

So, just some thoughts.

 

[Reducto]

I got rid of most of what I owned and traveled internationally for 2 years and it was wonderful! There were some downsides, however.

1) Having to buy things back and start over sucked up a lot of time and money. Car insurance rates went up.

2) I found myself packing more than I needed for the original trip away because I felt like my whole life had to be contained in that bag. I actually needed very little.

3) I found it easy to become tethered to one place overseas. I figured out how things worked there and inertia kept pulling me back. Even though I only had one bag with me I still did not wander like I could have. Limiting the scope of my trip might help with that.

4) Landlords, potential employers, and others simply could not grasp the concept of someone leaving for years then coming back.

I think balancing time here versus elsewhere can be good. Spend time here with friends and family. Figure out what region you want to hit next. Do your planning and research, then go there for a few months. Come home, relax, and repeat. Having a homebase but one that doesn't cost you much to maintain gives you an out to extend these trips or cut them short depending on how they go.

I would caution against going too overboard with spending time and money on your US based home. The more precious it is to you, the more you'll worry about it when you're gone. Make it just good enough to satisfy your temporary needs when you're here. Store keepsakes and important papers with family or in a deposit box somewhere.

 

[AntiGroundhogDay]

@Presteaux!

I think wanting something like a RAV4 Hybrid (to ~me~ a great combination of ground clearance, MPG, reliability, and true climate control), if I were to buy every time I returned, and sold every time wanted to take off internationally again, I'd lose a lot of $.  But I agree if I had a beater minivan this could certainly work, but for my wants, a RAV4 really rings true after all this time researching.

Also, I've of the school of thought vehicles should be driven and they rot away when stored (rubber get brittle, tires get flat spots, the environment attacks the paint, rodents move in etc.) so most likely I'd keep ins. on it and throw the keys to my Brother and tell him to drive it to the grocery store every two weeks. Not sure.

And if I had no transportation once I returned to my "home" once done traveling internationally for a while, buying a cheapo car and selling it before taking off internationally again could work, but could also be a PIA depending on how long I stayed in the US.  If I was only there for 2 months, to buy and turn right around and sell again, though I wouldn't lose a ton of $ on a beater car, it would be a PIA.

 

[AntiGroundhogDay]

@AGD, from the sounds of it, you will apparently have enough income after retirement to get by, as long as being frugal. Here are possibilities from my experiences. 

>>>> Though I will not be rich and will need to be frugal, I feel fortunate and I'm thankful for how it has played out.  I also would like to spend time volunteering and giving back.

(a) in the 1990s, I lived and traveled in europe for about 18-months total. The train system over there is so phenomenal that, in general, you will not even need a car. If you live out of town, there are bus services everywheres, geared to the needs of the locals. At the time, rooms were "much" cheaper in southern europe (Spain, Italy, Greece) than northern, but since they all joined the Euro, it's not so good anymore. 

(b) however, in smaller towns and especially on the islands in Greece, many private homes have rooms to let, and you can probably get a very good deal by offering them 1-month's rent upfront. Eg, "here is $400 in cash". They'll think you're a god. OTOH, if you move every couple of days, it will cost much more.

(c) another possibility is half and half. 6-months in europe/etc as described above, alternating with 6-months traveling in your van in the US. That would be a phenomenal life. The Mediterranean in winter and the mountain west in summer.

>>>> This is a decent idea.  I think I need to travel internationally in a backpack with a one-way ticket first before buying a van/RAV4 Hybrid.  Then I'll know if I am "hooked" or not for long term, solo travel.

(d) when I retired, my initial scheme was to move around the US west, renting apartments for 6-months or a year at a time. Then make trips around the nearby areas. I did that for 2-years and it was very enjoyable. 

(e) when I came to Reno, the real estate crash was still underway (latest longer in NV than in most states), and I was able to buy a (very small) condo at 1/3 the price it had sold for several years earlier. Real estate values have recovered now (and I couldn't afford to buy my condo in today's market), but I had thought about going back to the 6-months at a time renting on the side just for travel. Then I decided to buy my van. 

>>>> I have a paid off studio apartment, but it is not in a state that is ideal for income taxes.  I'll have to consider the common charges and state taxes and see if this home base makes sense.  The other option is to sell the apartment and take the small bit of equity and invest it, thus having a perpetual amount of $ that could go towards renting apartments around the country is decently LCOL areas to chill out for an amount of time before getting the travel bug again.

(f) so this is good, I have a cheap home base and a cheap way to travel. I figure the van saves me $2,000 a month on motels. I should also think it's still somewhat inexpensive to live in a small town where the population has been decreasing (which is basically the entire US as people move to the cities and small towns are dying), and use this as a home base for travel in your van.

(g) I don't think I would want to live in Thailand or any other country run by a military dictatorship. 

>>>> I don't think I'd retire to one of these 3rd world countries, but I haven't experienced it.  Who knows, maybe I meet the love of my life there and start anew?

>>>>Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[AntiGroundhogDay]

I got rid of most of what I owned and traveled internationally for 2 years and it was wonderful! There were some downsides, however.

1) Having to buy things back and start over sucked up a lot of time and money. Car insurance rates went up.

>>>> Thankfully I'm a minimalist.  I would sell my car prior to leaving and if I sold my little studio, I'd hopefully sell it furnished and store a few tubs of stuff at my Brother's/Mother's place.  I heard car ins. can go up with a gap, but I also heard to prevent that you can maintain a cheap non-driver policy to prevent that very thing?

2) I found myself packing more than I needed for the original trip away because I felt like my whole life had to be contained in that bag. I actually needed very little.

3) I found it easy to become tethered to one place overseas. I figured out how things worked there and inertia kept pulling me back. Even though I only had one bag with me I still did not wander like I could have. Limiting the scope of my trip might help with that.

>>>> Yeah there seems to be the youngin's with the GoGoGo! style with hostels where you stay a week and you're on the train/plane/bus to the next stop as they have a limited amount of time with their Gap Year or whatnot and then on the other side you have truly retired folks 2 decades older than me, who are practicing slow travel where they rent an AirBnB for a few months in a city and really get to know the place.  As a 40yr old I'm not sure where I'd fit in and it is a bit troubling to me as an extrovert who will crave chatting with folks who speak the same language (I plan to pick up spanish though) and are willing to go on adventures.  Hrmmmm...

4) Landlords, potential employers, and others simply could not grasp the concept of someone leaving for years then coming back.

>>>> Hopefully if I am planning things correctly I will not need to return to work and I'll only return to work where I enjoy the work itself (or volunteer) and I'm not a slave to the paycheck like I am now.

I think balancing time here versus elsewhere can be good. Spend time here with friends and family. Figure out what region you want to hit next. Do your planning and research, then go there for a few months. Come home, relax, and repeat. Having a homebase but one that doesn't cost you much to maintain gives you an out to extend these trips or cut them short depending on how they go.

>>>> I'll have to run some numbers to see if "home base" will equal a relative's house (maybe throw they a few bucks to store my stuff or when I am in town, keep my paid off, small studio and just pay the common charges, keep a vehicle at a relative's place as I keep car insurance and let it depreciate, or rent a furnished place when I return home on a month-to-month basis.

I would caution against going too overboard with spending time and money on your US based home. The more precious it is to you, the more you'll worry about it when you're gone. Make it just good enough to satisfy your temporary needs when you're here. Store keepsakes and important papers with family or in a deposit box somewhere.

>>>> Good point.  If I kept my studio, I would still want a friend to check in on it and who wants the hassle of dealing with repairs when you are away?  I think when I quit my job, I need to prepare my studio to sell (leave the furniture, but move the keepsakes to a relative's house), sell my car, then set out for an INTL trip with no return date and see how much I like it.  If I'm home in a month I have my studio to live in while I contemplate my next move which would likely be purchasing a van/RAV4 Hybrid and go the fulltiming route with a traditional INTL vacation sprinkled in with friends/family occasionally or keep the studio as a home base and venture out in the van/RAV4 for a few months at a time, etc. etc.

 

[Reducto]

By home base I meant keep a vehicle in storage ready to be lived in when you return, but it could be anything.

 

[AntiGroundhogDay]

Alright, I think I've got a game plan here....

1) Go INTL after retirement for long enough to know if I love it or hate it, or lastly know how long I can go while enjoying it before I get home sick. Do not sell my paid off studio apartment, and perhaps don't even sell my commuter car. The studio and the commuter car, while they have recurring costs while I travel INTL, they are my "insurance policy" and give me flexibility to return to what I know and plan for the next stage of life if the INTL travel thing does not go well.

2) If long term INTL travel is for me, determine how long I enjoy going INTL before I get home sick, and how long I enjoy being "home" before taking off again. It is a sliding scale where keeping the studio apartment provides less benefit the less time I spend in the US and more time I spend abroad. If I only want to stay in the US for a month or two, long enough to plan my next trip, well then I'd sell the studio and car and have to deal with limitations/costs/inconveniences for that month or two I'm in the US. But if I'm spending say, 6mo in the US at a time, keeping that studio apartment will be quite nice as I'm not inconveniencing any friends of family for long periods of time asking for a place to stay and at that sort of duration, buying and selling a beater car each time I arrive and leave the US would be worth the trouble. I have no garage, nor want to pay for covered parking to store a vehicle long term and it's my belief they rot over time if stored too long.

3) If long term INTL travel is not for me, keep the studio, but sell the commuter car and buy the RAV4 Hybrid (I'm a sucker for that climate control). I'd venture out and see if fulltiming is for me while having the studio apartment as my "insurance" in case I didn't like it.

4) If fulltiming in the RAV4 is for me, sell the studio and drop off a few tupperware bins in my Brother's basement. Then I would fulltime roaming about the country. I'd still have the option to park it at my Brother's place while I take the occasional flight/traditional vacation and he'd drive it around once every week or two and I would keep insurance on it. If/When I return from vacation, I'd immediately have transportation/home base and be able to return to roaming about the country.

5) If fulltiming in the RAV4 is not for me, I keep the RAV4 because why not, still need a car, and have my studio to live in, returning to a sticks & bricks existence and probably poking my eyes out from boredom.

 

[QinReno]

Dear Groundhog, I think your plan is good. Always test things temporarily before making final decisions, especially if most everything is a new experience. I would favor holding onto the studio, at least initially, as it's probably not costing a lot to maintain, and you still have a homebase if other possibilities don't work out. Unless you have so much equity in it that the money just looks toooo good. You could go to europe for say 6-months, and try living as an expat just to test the waters, rather than traveling around a lot like a tourist. I would also take whatever vehicle I already have and try traveling around the US for 3 or 4 months, doing it the "Bob Way". In summer all you need is a tent.

 

[AntiGroundhogDay]

Dear Groundhog, I think your plan is good. Always test things temporarily before making final decisions, especially if most everything is a new experience. I would favor holding onto the studio, at least initially, as it's probably not costing a lot to maintain, and you still have a homebase if other possibilities don't work out. Unless you have so much equity in it that the money just looks toooo good. You could go to europe for say 6-months, and try living as an expat just to test the waters, rather than traveling around a lot like a tourist. I would also take whatever vehicle I already have and try traveling around the US for 3 or 4 months, doing it the "Bob Way". In summer all you need is a tent.

As much as it ruffles my frugal feathers, yeah I think I need to hold on to studio and/or a car to live in while I try out INTL life.  It'll cost a bit more in the long run, but a reasonable insurance policy.  Unfortunately I don't fit in my MINI Cooper doing it the "Bob Way" so I envision that car going bye-bye regardless.

 

[QinReno]

A mini-cooper will still work for temporary purposes until you get something else, just travel with a tent. The Bob Way is be free and live cheap. And cut the strings - it doesn't have to be all at once. I found that a workable scheme is 6 days camping, and 1 day in a motel to shave and clean up good, although now with the van I am spending only about 3 days in motels over a full month.

For full disclosure in case it was missed, I do have a small condo for a home base in between travels, but I like traveling for weeks at a time. Bob's info works for everyone.