Floorplan and electrical wiring

[Lafnbug]

I am obsessed with order. And sequence. I am in the midst of finalizing my intended floorplan for my cargo van build up. I want to have a very clean, uncluttered installation once completed, and to me that means not having wiring all over the place. Is it OK to run my solar supply wires behind my finished walls and ceiling? I assume it would be wise to at least set the system up for a shake-down trial run in any case.

Most of the other wiring will be pulled through the cabinets and under the bed, so will still be somewhat accessible. I know some of you use a 'power wall' of sorts, and I plan on doing the same. If I'm using a dumb solenoid to allow my alternator to charge the house, how far of a cable run can I use? Is it possible to have batteries and the alternator on opposite ends of the van without a ridiculous current drop?

 

[SternWake]

Voltage drop is counteracted with thicker copper cabling, so the question should not be can I do it, but can I afford to run fat cabling to the back of the van where I want to put my batteries?

One other consideration is the weight. Overall another 12 pounds of copper is hardly going to break a leafspring, but it is far too easy to just keep adding more and more weight to a Van, and before you know it you get 8mpg driving around town.

Keeping wiring runs short, makes it less expensive to keep them thicker for minimal voltage drop, and maximum performance. Of course weight can be saved in other areas too. I see many bed platforms which are way overbuilt.

If more expensive fatter cabling helps extend the life of you batteries, well there is money in your pocket at a later date.

But everything is a compromise.

When shopping for fatter cabling, beware of copper clad aluminum wiring or just plain aluminum wiring. It it is significantly cheaper, then it is likely not pure stranded copper.

---

Running cables behind paneling beforehand is wise, just give yourself an extra foot or 2 at each end and do not make it incredibly difficult to remove a panel. you can also put a strong thin rope next to the wiring , or on the other side to "pull" some more wire at a later date.

Also make sure to know where the wires are before driving a fastener through it, from above or below.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I am kind of in the same boat as you are as I will be starting my build next week.
A couple of things on wiring:
• Here are a couple of wire size calculators I use to determine what wiring size to use (remember, your wire length is +ve & -ve lengths combined);
http://circuitwizard.bluesea.com/#
http://boatstuff.awardspace.com/awgcalc.html
• Label all wires at both ends! It makes it easy to trace a problem, especially if the wires are hidden behind walls. I use a label maker and clear, sealing shrink wrap,; but sticky number kits you can get at Radio Shack work for a lot of people.
• Protect any wires going near sharp edges (like through metal braces, any place that could chafe or cut the wire).
• Crimp, don't solder. Use quality wire and terminators, use good quality wire strippers and crimp tools.
• You could run your wires through conduit. Makes pulling wires later easy.
You probably already know most of this, but it never hurts to remind. I'll probably think of more stuff as soon as I hit post reply.
-- Spiff

 

[loess]

Not sure if he comes around here anymore, but I like what cygvan did with PVC molding where the ceiling and walls of his van meet, enabling the ability to attach wiring conduit (or anything, really) up there. Looks like he used grey Liquid Tite conduit as well as corrugated wiring loom. I realize it is not what you are asking about since it is not behind the finished panels but thought you might want to take a look anyhow.

 

[Lafnbug]

SternWake, agreed on the weight, and the overbuilt beds! Even though I have a 1 ton van, weight savings is paramount. My idea was to figure out what I'm going to do, then cut weight wherever I can within reason. It's a GM van, and they're not known for good fuel economy. I get about 10-11avg. 14 with all highway. Sucks. Believe me, when spec'ing fridges and batteries, I am always looking at the unit weights (another score for VF).

What to do about 12v fuses/circuit breakers on all my circuits? What type of wiring do I use for my 12v circuits? Household 12/2? Stranded? Plus, I want just about every outlet, FAN, appliance/device on it's own switch. I want absolute tyrannical power over where my energy is going and when, mainly for safety and phantom load concerns. Is this necessary, or am I just being me again?

Spaceman, thank you for the links - they will prove to be helpful! Great advice about wire labeling; I'm definitely going to do that where necessary. I actually haven't thought about conduit, but it makes a lot of sense. I will seriously consider it.

Loess, this is why the forums are great! I have learned more on this forum in my short time here than I can believe. I am always open minded about different approaches, and thank you for pointing out Cygvan's project! It has given me some ideas!

 

[SternWake]

Quit being YOU! haha.

As for battery weight, 2 equal dimension batteries, the heavier one will be superior.

Use a 12 gang fuse block, have it handy so you can pull the fuses to eliminate them as parasites. Individual switches might be overkill on most all things except for lighting or fans or things switched on and off often. Just introducing more points for failure and parasitic drains, and voltage drop.
Here is a 6 gang ATO block I used for years before expanding to 10 circuits. I could use 12 or 15 gang at this point.

http://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-BP-1...qid=1403068444&sr=8-5&keywords=ATC+fuse+block.

You can also put a fuse on the fuse block feed, or a large circuit breaker like this to turn off all house loads at the push of a button:
http://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-Hi-A...33&sr=8-3&keywords=bussman+dc+circuit+breaker

Use stranded wire, for all DC circuits. 14 awg or thicker just incase you decide to retask the wiring later. Some wiring, like for LED lights, need not be 14 awg, but think about possible retasking in the future. and 14 awg is not a whole bunch heavier or much more expensive than 18 awg.
I have 3 10 gauge circuits leading from my fuse block, that send power to other fuses or small fuseblocks located on the other side of the Van.

I only have one remote 110Vac household outlet, and I used a 12 awg power tool replacement cord(stranded wire) to power it. I plug this cord either into my inverter, or to my 120vac household Power strip which has its own circuit breaker. Keeps it simple and effective.

Use Anderson powerpoles, the 45 amp versions on any connections requiring more than ~4 amps. Ciggy plugs are convenient but too problem prone at higher amperages. the 45 ampers can just barely fit 10awg wire and require some crimping skills. The 30 ampers barely fit 12awg and are easier to crimp. The 45 and 30 ampers are the same size and can mate together.

I do not employ any self resetting circuit breakers, but do have higher amp circuit breakers on my alternator feed and my Solar.

 

[akrvbob]

Slightly off-topic, but we are talking about weight. The extended vans got a really bad reputation because of multiple roll-over accidents and most of it was because of poor loading. All the passengers were on the drivers side and all the luggage was crammed into the back behind the axle. I've always though it acted as a fulcrum and lifted the front axle making a bad situation worse. The Dodge Roadtreks also had a reputation for wandering front ends and I think this is why.

You want to be careful with fore-aft loading as well as side-to-side loading. It's easy to get too much weight at the back end and actually lift the front end a bit.

Nearly all the weight you add to a van goes to the rear axle and very little goes to the front axle. Weight behind the rear axle is to be minimized as it acts like a fulcrum.

Keep your weight:

TO A MINIMUM
FORWARD
LOW
BALANCED SIDE-TO-SIDE

Bob

 

[Lafnbug]

Excellent advise Bob. Overall safety is my top priority, and the benefits are a better handling van! There's only about 1' of usable space behind my wheel wells, so it would be difficult for me to overload behind the axle. On the extended Fords and Dodges however, I can see this being a problem... Nascar cars sometimes use 100's of lbs of ballast to compensate for handling, and that is on a banked track! Not to mention the wheelies of the 60's altered wheelbase drag cars...

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

It is only ~$10 to get your vehicle weighed at a CAT scale. Get individual weights on all 4 wheels, van empty, full of fluids and whomever is going to be riding in the van. That will tell you what you have to start with. The find out your vehicle gross vehicle weight rating, gross axle weight rating, and maximum tire load rating. That will tell you what you have to work with. Moving things around to attain balance is not difficult, but it might not give your desired layout. Always trade-offs. -- Spiff

 

[compassrose]

http://www.noshockzone.org/category/rv-safety/

 

[Lafnbug]

Will do, thanks for the heads-up, Guy. There seem to be a lot of crossover potentialities from marine to DwellerLand. I'm going to start poking around their sites a bit more.

Darn it, and I just threw a welder away a few weeks ago!

 

[Bdog1]

Glad there's someone else keeping things simple. I use a heavy duty power strip mounted in the rear of the van with a 20' cord, that drops through the floor, for my outside 110 line. The fan and AC plugs into it. I figure it's got a breaker and switch built in. Then I also have a lighter duty strip routed up toward the front for an LED light phone and laptop charging Ect.

 

[akrvbob]

Sounds like you have a long-wheelbase Chevy! I have a long-wheelbase Chevy extended 3500 Express van. I could drop a pallet of bricks inside the back door and my van wouldn't even notice!

Having had too many overloaded rigs I want one that will just laugh at any amount of weight I can put on it as a vandweller!
Bob

 

[highdesertranger]

lafnbug wrote "Darn it, and I just threw a welder away a few weeks ago!". don't ever throw away stuff like this, scrap it. a welder has 30-100+ dollars worth of copper in it. anything with an electric motor or transformer in it is worth money. highdesertranger

 

[Lafnbug]

Actually, I did 'scrap' it. It was an item I had tried to save after it was in a burning building, but it was too far gone... I used the $ to partially fund my panels. Nothing goes to waste in my world (if I can help it)!

 

[highdesertranger]

good job lafnbug. I recycle everything that I can. make 2-3 thousand a year this way. highdsertranger