FEAR What is good for and when it is not.

[Scott7022]

I posted something in the "Men Only" thread. Perhaps, I might have come at it from a different angle than many and so I thought a better thread might be one like this; FEAR. 

"Fear is a waste of good imagination." I am not sure to whom I should attribute this quote but many have it as a signature line on adventure forums. We all have fears and as Bob has mentioned in videos "it can be a good thing." When it starts to affect our lives in a negative way, or change who we are as a people or a person it becomes a bad thing. It is a chemical thing and part of autonomous hard wiring. But it is also significantly influenced by our personality, and attitude. Too bad other parts of autonomous systems couldn't be hacked in the same manner. 

Fear has many levels, not just in intensity but also in rationality. For example I am afraid of spiders. They give me the creeps, darting invisible, alien looking little buggers with shiny black eyes covering their head. I was bitten by a bird spider in Africa. It was big, normal hand size, and had long fangs (used for getting past the birds feathers) I was talking with my hands and it ambushed my hand thinking it was a bird flying past. It gripped my hand, covering the entire back of my little hand and wrapping hairy arms around into my palm. I brought it up to my face to see what had grabbed me. With less than a foot in distance I watched and black fangs dipped into my flesh. S/He kind of looked like this 
View attachment 14685

But this is really an irrational fear for me as they aren't truly lethal and where my home is not something I should be concerned about. Now snakes don't bug me at all. I've handled many and I know how to identify the dangerous ones. "Hey look a king snake." Grab proudly show friends. "While reciting red touching black poison lack, red touching yellow kills a fellow..." Coral snake!!! Drop and off goes abused snake. 

With the invent of the internet our avenues to fear opened with our avenues to knowledge. Great sites like this, and people that frequent them help put all this information into perspective. One last example. This is a cut and paste from my government's website (official) about Russia. 

[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Rostov Oblast (see Advisory)[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The Russian government has declared a state of emergency and maintains a significant military presence in Rostov Oblast. The situation along the Ukrainian border is unpredictable and could change quickly. Exercise extreme vigilance if you must travel to this region, as armed clashes and violence pose serious threats to your safety. If you are currently in this area, you should strongly consider leaving. The ability of the Embassy of Canada to Russia in Moscow to provide consular assistance in this district is extremely limited.[/font]

[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Republics of Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetia, and Stavropol Krai (see Advisory)[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Terrorist attacks are frequent in the Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetia republics and Stavropol region. The security situation is unstable and dangerous. Suicide bombings occur on a regular basis and targeted assassinations have also taken place. Unexploded mines and munitions are widespread. Kidnapping for ransom is also common.[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]You must obtain special permission from the Ministry of the Interior to enter certain areas and regions.[/font]

[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Republics of Kabardino-Balkaria (including the Mount Elbrus region), Karachai-Cherkessia and NorthOssetia (see Advisory)[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Tensions are high in Russia’s border regions with Georgia and may affect the security situation in Kabardino-Balkaria, Karachai-Cherkessia and North Ossetia republics. Military operations are carried out with little or no notice, and are accompanied by travel restrictions. The border crossings to Georgia and Azerbaijan are subject to frequent, sometimes lengthy closures.[/font]

In the past year I have been to Grozny the Chechnya capitol three times. I live close to the sea border with the Ukraine and my family lives in the region of South Ossetia. I have made this PERILOUS crossing five times to the Georgian side. Last year a mudslide hit and the officers had to be evacuated and the RUSSIAN helicopter lifted both nationalities out of the danger zone. All quiet and nice despite officially having issue with one another politically. People are people being the prevalent thinking culturally. This is from our EXPERTS, no fake news propaganda fringe site. So what is an intelligent person to do? 

Well we listen to friends. Friends perhaps we haven't met. These friends are similar to us have similar aspirations and ideas and most importantly a willingness to help in the form of words and real world experience. Like on this forum. 

I will leave you with my favorite quote about fear. From the movie Dune.
"Fear is the minds killer, I will face my fear and allow it pass through me and over me..."
Be situationally aware but don't allow fear to stop you in the pursuit of dreams; for without dreams we are already dead.

 

[Ballenxj]

I posted something in the "Men Only" thread. Perhaps, I might have come at it from a different angle than many and so I thought a better thread might be one like this; FEAR. 
<-------->
Be situationally aware but don't allow fear to stop you in the pursuit of dreams; for without dreams we are already dead.

Fear can be a deal breaker. Fear is what bad people use to try and get their way, including news media.
I have a friend in Vegas who will walk right up to a supposed bad guy that has been hanging around using threatening gestures and ask him what his problem is? The poseur will usually end up slinking away, tail with tail between legs. My friend will be nice enough in his approach, but can also back himself up if need be. This falls in line with the point I think you're making here. Face your fears and they will often melt away.
Good post.

 

[slynne]

As someone who grew up in Detroit in the 70's and 80's, I am very familiar with how perceptions can vary from reality. I once got into an argument with a guy in Germany who simply could not believe that I ived in Detroit and hadn't witnessed a murder.

 

[SoulRaven]

Well written, as usual Scott. The old cliche' "those that say they aren't afraid or scared in a firefight are either liars or fools"sort of applies.

I've got a big (to me) surgery coming within the next year, a make it or break it type. Am I afraid? No. Concerned about those I will inevitably leave behind. Yes.

I've been afraid a few times in my life, not the locked up, paralyzed type of fear but the "Oh shit" type.

Scott, I hope you stay on the forum, I enjoy your posts.

 

[squatting dog]

Fear.... I have known real fear. 
Trudging through the jungle and head into a bamboo stand. Now, you have to not only watch for the enemy, you have our old friend the Bamboo Pit Viper. A cute little fellow not more than about 12 inches long and not bigger around then your finger. However, when this little guy who hangs in bamboo and looks a lot like it bites you, the wound feels extremely painful, as if it had been branded with a hot iron, and the pain does not subside until about 24 hours after being bitten. Within a few minutes of being bitten, the surrounding flesh dies and turns black, highlighting the puncture wounds. The wound site quickly swells and the skin and muscle become black due to necrosis.  To say you need first aid quickly is an understatement. 

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Real fear is usually justifiable.
Then you have paranoia.
But paranoia is when the fear is irrational.
Often, when someone says you're being paranoid, are you ?
Ted

 

[lenny flank]

Fear.... I have known real fear. 
Trudging through the jungle and head into a bamboo stand. Now, you have to not only watch for the enemy, you have our old friend the Bamboo Pit Viper. A cute little fellow not more than about 12 inches long and not bigger around then your finger. However, when this little guy who hangs in bamboo and looks a lot like it bites you, the wound feels extremely painful, as if it had been branded with a hot iron, and the pain does not subside until about 24 hours after being bitten. Within a few minutes of being bitten, the surrounding flesh dies and turns black, highlighting the puncture wounds. The wound site quickly swells and the skin and muscle become black due to necrosis.  To say you need first aid quickly is an understatement. 

I used to keep those little tree vipers as pets (though i mostly had South American species rather than Asian). 

Of course, I had proper equipment to handle them safely, and used it. Most snakes can only strike about half their body length, but these little tykes can hang on with their tails and reach wayyyy out to get ya.

They are too small to kill ya, but they sure can lay a hell of a hurtin on ya.

 

[lenny flank]

Humans, alas, are not very good at accurately judging the actual risks of things that are very very rare but have potentially big consequences. That is why so many newbie backpackers pee their pants over "bears!!!", why so many newbie van-dwellers are afraid of "serial killers!!", and why so many people buy lottery tickets.

 

[Scott7022]

In africa we called him the green tree snake. Yes, he is a dangerous little bugger. Oddly I don't get a fear response past be careful. Kinda like drinking with unknown bikers in Russia! LOL! Gunny true and wise words. The problem is more when that fear goes away. I've encountered men like this and it served as a very good warning to me to stop...When you no longer fear destruction you are more dead than alive. Good luck with the surgery. I am certain you have provided the skill set for them to deal with the bad, as that is what we do, and I send positive energy that all will be as good as it can be. Prepare them for the worst, train them till they are the best, and then it is in gods hands. Very correct Grumpy old man, Fear is a transitional state and simply a question not asked verbally of you. Step up or rollover. Lenny totally correct and one of the reasons I posted this thread up. Fear is good and I will jump on my soap box and do a Gordon Gekko FEAR IS GOOD. It is a question or test and all of us can overcome it. When I ran a course in the Government we use to bring out a class of second graders for a picnic and a local police unit, Narcotics, SWAT, Counter intel, take your pick we ran the gambit City, Provincial, and Federal. I put three shooters in open firing positions. No camouflage. Then we brought the kids out on Friday and the adults out on Saturday. We said nothing to the children and we told the adults we were conducting a training exercise in situational awareness and lunch would be provided. Rarely did a cop see a shooter prior to getting to the lake side lunch. Equally was it rare to have a group of second graders NOT see the shooter before arriving to the lake side lunch. 5 years of doing this, and while not scientific in the strictest of measurements. still very telling! So what did we loose between 7 and 20?

 

[Gary68]

kinda on topic

ever get that"it's time to pick up the pace"feel when in the woods? it's happened to me only a couple times in my life,kinda freaky

 

[rvpopeye]

Yup yup , usually right after hearing branches breaking !! (Sumptin BIG!)

 

[Putts]

Oddly I don't get a fear response past be careful. *snip* Fear is a transitional state and simply a question not asked verbally of you. Step up or rollover. ..*snip*...Rarely did a cop see a shooter prior to getting to the lake side lunch. Equally was it rare to have a group of second graders NOT see the shooter before arriving to the lake side lunch. ..*snip*.. So what did we loose between 7 and 20?

Bloody great post.

I think what was gained between 7 and 20 is the sense of understanding of what's going on in the world around you...which leads (especially in young adulthood---read stupid and arrogant often) to the assumption the you know what's going on around you. You don't see the things that are actually there because you don't believe they're there to start with. The little kids are still learning without the encumbering assumption so they're open minded.

More to the point, what was the fear reaction of the 7 year olds vs. the older people? I bet the kids were like, "What is that? Is that what I think it is? Why are they there? Is this really a threat or are they protecting us? What's really going on here?"

While the parents be like, "Eeeeeek! A gun. Where's Sally? O.M.G. Help!

"

I think the little kids need a little more fear to be wary quicker and know to seek safety before trying to figure out the details. And I think the adults need to learn to keep their head on a swivel and go into situations with a basic safety practice in hand for them and their family rather than go into an ignorant panic. Truth is it's a jungle out there wherever you are. Be prepared.

 

[TrainChaser]

Ted: "Often, when someone says you're being paranoid, are you?"

It this coming from someone who doesn't look away from their phone for more than three seconds every twenty minutes?

 

[Scott7022]

The kids just said hey there is an army man up there. The teachers were pre warned at the start of the hike and instructed to just ignore them. No issue green guys lying down with a rifle. They had melted a ton of them with daddy's stolen lighter. LOL! In five years we only had one member, a female counter sniper, spot a shooter. She walked up to one of the instructors and asked why we had overwatch. He asked how many have you seen. "Only one" Then you pass but you're still dead.

Even though the teachers knew they were out there only around 75 percent saw them. When the kids, and teachers got to the lake we had lunch and ice-cream and played games for an hour and sent them home.
The members were a different story we had to walk them back and later show video tape they had been there all along. This is one of the issues trying to teach someone who thinks they have learned everything. The greatest challenge!!!!!!

The exercise was teaching situational awareness and that this starts with you and your glasses. The eyes only records data the brain allows it to see. For us nomads we need to adapt to the culture. For me this has been foreign countries. But when I get on the road it will be parking lots and dispersed camping areas and I am sure I will be a babe in the woods.

 

[SoulRaven]

I'm fairly certain "Babe in the Woods" would not be an apt description of you camping, dispersed or otherwise. There are times my PTSD comes in handy, being paranoid is one example. My shrink calls it "Hyper-vigilance".

I'm about 60% deaf in my left ear so i have become a believer in Motion sensors pointed in likely areas and they will light up the world. Also ring a bell I hear. My daughter has the truck camper now, she has disconnected the bell but still has the lights.

Here in this long term motel I have called home for almost two years I have several means of defense. Night vision camera pointed at my truck and ATV, I make it a point that my neighbors (we have a high turnover of tenants here) know I am armed. Texas is open carry so I get away with being silly and wearing my holster with my sweat shorts. Lightweight Glock or my shorts would hit the deck. I also have my shotgun but I figure if they make it past the Glock I am screwed so it's in the closet.

I don't worry much about camping, either in the boonies, or spending the night at Walmart. I'm sort of a fatalist, what happens happens and all the weapons in the world won't help. In all my travels in the US and Canada (I had to be rehabilitated to go into Canada but that's another story) I have never been bothered. A few panhandlers and drunks.

Keep up the good stories.

 

[Scott7022]

Yes, I too have heard the term Hyper-Vigilance LOL! What it isn't normal to notice the plate numbers around you and compare those numbers in different locations?
I am a small fat little guy with an easy smile and a devil may care demeanor and would also describe my self as a Cavalier Fatalist. I have been told here in Russia that I have a look that puts ice into the soul. No one has ever told me this before. Perhaps Canadians are too polite. Or perhaps Russians are more observant of dangerous people? I don't think I project that, I hope I don't. I like to be seen as a nice guy just as much as anybody else. I never act aggressively and I said that to the person that told me this recently. He said that this was exactly why, and went on to describe a situation we had had together where a local large drunk was being a little too aggressive in asking me to buy him a beer. He towered over me by a foot and when he grabbed my shirt front I locked his wrist and using small joint manipulation and his lack of balance dropped him to his knees. His stunned look told me his drunk mind had figured it all out, so I grabbed him under the arms helping him up while jokingly saying "No No Putin says that is not allowed in Russia, let me buy you a drink." People laughed and he was publicly embarrassed, which is a huge deal here, can result in death very easily. So I watched him. He sat quietly, drank his beer and thankfully didn't come back. The next time I saw him he apologized, rare in Russia, and so did I for embarrassing him. He bought me a drink and we are friendly to one another. I mentioned this to my friend and he said this also proved his case as you are without fear. I thanked him for the compliment and told him he was full of shit.

A story you'd like.. Ok this is a true story as I remember it. I posted it to another forum a while back one far less active and helpful than this forum. It is on topic about fear. I could post far more scary stories from Africa but as they say "You always remember your first!"

Aside from always wanting to live in a hollow tree, I loved to hike. I grew up in British Columbia, so I was surrounded by the grand majesty of the province and had many opportunities to hike.

We had gone on a family vacation to visit friends in the interior, and my father wanted to stop at some of the “Beehive” burners he had built decades ago. These burners got rid of waste sawdust and the shape that gave them their name resulted in almost all of the waste material being burned and eliminated the threat of sawdust explosions in the industry. It was very progressive science and architecture for the time. For me, it was a trip away from the girl next door, that I had only recently noticed. I was thirteen, and so was she, and her name was Carrie.

Carrie had that cool mix of girl and tomboy that I had read about but never experienced. She could play a cool game, or get into a spot of mischief like a male friend. But, she was a girl. A beautiful girl and one I found myself wanting just to look at.
So, when the announcement came that we were going on a family road trip, I had not wanted to go. I was too young to stay at home alone, and so I found myself in the back of the family GTX, wishing Carrie and I could be going for walks with our dogs and talking. It was the first time I experienced love for someone other than family.

The irony that it was also the summer that I first experienced real fear is not lost on me.

We had stopped for a few days in a little town perched on the bank of one of the many rivers that bisect the province. I told my Mom I was bored and going to go for a hike, have a picnic, and read Robert McCammon’s book, Baal. She agreed as it would no doubt get the moody teenager out of her hair for a bit, and made me a picnic lunch.
I set off after Dad had left the little motel room to go fishing. My Dad liked to go fishing early, so it was still dark when I scrambled up the rocks and into the forest. While I was a fat kid I could always walk and I never got tired hiking. I climbed high above the river valley up logging roads and along ridge lines till the river looked like a silver-blue thread.

I went across a clear cut and found a sweet spot below and old stump to have lunch. The day had got hot, and the sun shone directly down on the stump’s top. The steep slope of the clear cut seemed to extend all the way to the valley floor. I pulled out a blanket and set it in the hollow the stumps roots made at its base. I opened the new book and starting reading as I enjoyed my lunch.

Mom had put two large Fruit and Nut chocolate bars in my bag, and I broke off a piece and put my book down feeling a little tired.

I fell asleep.

I awoke to a strange sensation of something warm sucking on my hand. When I turned to look, I saw a little brown bear licking the leftover chocolate off my hand. Without thinking, I slowly brought the remainder of the bar up to the cute little bears mouth. Surprisingly he licked it without eating it whole. I heard a noise to my left and looked to see a second bear sitting watching his sibling and me.

The new bear made a little cry, and I slowly held out the second chocolate bar for him. He sniffed suspiciously at the offering and then started licking it as well. It was right about this second I remembered that bears cubs while cute also signaled danger as Mommy bears are very protective of their young.
I was lying back in the hollow of the stump and didn’t want to move too quickly and create a situation that may cause these two cute teddy bears to make a sound Mom might understand as a threat. Slowly I moved my head left and right scanning the cut block and the edges of the forest. I didn’t see the Mom.
The two bears were eating through the treat pretty quickly I noticed and while I wondered what would happen when they were finished I noticed something else.

Both of them had little humps behind their necks. These were grizzly bear cubs. These little bears would grow to be one of the most fearsome and powerful animals in North America. Growing to be over six feet tall and weighing over seven hundred pounds even their Latin name, Ursus horribilis, speaks to their power. Terrifying Bear.

Where was Mom?

The question rolled around in my head. I knew I was grave danger, and the chocolate was running out. I brought myself up to more of a sitting position and for the first, and only time in my life felt the wave of fear sick nausea flow over me. Resisting the urge to vomit I once again scanned the tree line for movement or stationary shadows. Seeing none I checked the progress of the two bears and figured my only chance, if they cried when the chocolate ran out, was to bolt directly down the hill.

I tried to pick a line past the waste cut that would get me as far down the slope in the shortest amount of time with the least chance of falling. At the same time, my heart was jackhammering in my chest, and I could hear my blood flow like water in old pipes. The end of the clear cut looked so far away.
The little guy on the left ran out of chocolate first. To my surprise, he came towards and then climbed over me to help his den-mate finish the other bar. He was heavy, at least, fifty pounds, and his claws dug past my cotton shirt and into my flesh.

I bit my lower lip and suppressed the urge to cry out, and felt the hot breath on my head. Mommy was on the top of the stump. Only inches above the top of my head, looking down at her babies. Her snort and exhale had moved the hair on my head. If I bolted now, she would grab the back of my head in her powerful maw and crush it, as easily as I could crush a lemon.

I was dead.

I was terrified.

My bladder let go, and I was wet.

This was fear. This was what it felt like to be afraid, and I didn’t like it one bit. While the two bears worked on the melting chocolate covered right hand a strange thing happened. A shadow fell across my chest and legs, and both of the bears looked up above my head. At this moment, I resolved to die. I was thirteen years old and today was the day I died. I was going to die I realized having never kissed Carrie. Before I got to have sex. Before I got to drive a car, and before I finished the cool book beside me. All of these thoughts mixed with the shadow’s fall. In only the smallest part of a second.

The big bear above let out another sickly sweet rank breath and a sound. I fought the urge to bolt, with everything I had. I whispered; “**** off now” and it sounded like a scream to my ears.

The cubs both jumped and moved up the hill out of my sight, soundlessly. I could still see the shadow. Felt my hair move once again, as she sniffed the air, and I waited for the pain that I knew was coming.

It didn’t come.

I realized I was holding my breath at about the same time I realized I was about to pass out. The automatic nature of breathing, forgotten for a time.
I took a breath, and in the silence of the forest, it sounded like an operatic note.
My uninvited lunch guests were gone. I waited for a long time before moving, and when I did move it was with pain. My joints ached then like they do now having been abused for fifty years. The chemical response to fear, swelling the joints and muscles of a young man, old. I was sick to my stomach when I did move to look behind me. Nothing was there; no sign anything ever had been.

My hair was slick with sweat and something else. A thick, slippery substance I realized was snot or drool. I was sick again.
Despite my desire to run down the hill as fast as I could, it took me, at least, a half hour to shake off the effects of this fear. It was all I could do to keep up with the various bodily systems as they seemed to come back online.

Breathing seemed to be slightly less automatic, or at the very least something I was aware of for the first time. Despite pissing my pants I had to go again, and even this seemed to require more cognition than before. The shakes started while I was trying to drink and combined with the throat’s inability to swallow threatened to drown me. Fear had very nearly shut down my mind.

 

[rvpopeye]

Well , If I hadn't done it already you would really get the title Beast Master after reading that !
After that , the drunk russian was a piece of nothing...........

 

[Putts]

Hell of a story, Scott. Thanks.

 

[SoulRaven]

Excellent story. Good reading to go along with my first cup of coffee after a night of insomnia. Thanks

 

[Dennis]

Great story!

By necessity I had to have some toughness when I was a kid growing up. But I think I would have lost my stomach if I was sitting there. Been more than wet pants too....

Given the bear's exceptional sense of smell do you have any educated idea how you survived that?