Evidence for Climate Change: The Water Knife

[Canine]

Reading a book called The Water Knife.The book is fiction but much of it could turn out to be true if the climate deniers keep denying.According to the book,Texas and the southwest are going to be toast in a few years.

 

[Seraphim]

Personally, I think it's a matter of too little, too late.

I'm not on the global wa- ... I mean, climate change bandwagon. Not a 'denier', either. Obviously, the climate is changing. Has it been helped along by human progress? I think it's likely our technological advances caused undesirable consequences. How much is natural progression and how much human intervention? I don't know. I suspect the scientists don't have that particular information, either. They can offer hypotheses, perhaps even darn accurate news, but...

Undeniably, our best course is to attempt to slow down our part in the process. But slowing down doesn't reverse the harm already done. And while a lot of talking gets done, little action actually comes forth. I don't really see this changing, because while most people say they want change, they don't want to be the inconvenienced or financially responsible for the change. But any change will ultimately have to be paid for by the taxpayer/consumer, and change ALWAYS has a cost.

I applaud entrepreneurs such as Elon Musk, who are fighting to make things better; but when it comes to actual allies and foes, the foes are willing to spend more money to maintain a financially rewarding status quo, than green advocates are personally willing to spend attempting to make the change. And, as previously implied, it will cost a lot more financially to make the change than maintain status quo. There are other costs for maintaining status quo, but even of those who see the costs, the majority will make no active moves to help incorporate change. They will merely remain armchair complainers.

So I'm not optimistic about the future.

 

[Seraphim]

Let me rephrase that last sentence: im not optimistic about the future of humanity. Nor am I particularly concerned it's future - or lack thereof. Humanity may well die off - or kill itself off - and probably take a great many other species with it. But with humanity out of the way, perhaps evolution will continue on a parallel course and bring forth a better race of beings. Earth will change but Earth will continue, and any scientist will tell you that a lack of change ends in stagnation. So change is good.

 

[Canine]

Oh,I think humans are definitely a finite species in the future.It's just a matter of time.On another note,I saw on the news where China is committing 7.5 trillion dollars (US) to slow global warming.

 

[Seraphim]

Any indication how they're going to apply those funds?

 

[LeeRevell]

Hope they don't buy any of Uncle Algore's carbon credits. That scam has netted him enough money. And don't give it to the UN either, which amounts to the same thing. If they work to improve and modernize their woefully outdated infrastructure, they would be going in the right direction. We are overdue for that too. Though I do not believe in the "Human Causation" theory. Plenty of other things causing Global Climate Change - aka "Weather". We need to work on ADAPTING to what is and will be, not in trying to return to what was and never will be again. Time marches ON.

 

[Canine]

Actually, climate and weather are two different things.I'll let you be the one to argue with the 97% of scientists who study these things who say it's happening.The story didn't say how they were spending the money,but it's part of the UN Global Initiative.I would suppose they will be doing away with their coal fired generating plants and probably upgrading their autos to be cleaner.They have the worst air in the world so I guess it's more a matter of have to than want to.They are already the worlds largest user of solar and I expect they will be increasing that.Plus the new Three Gorges Dam is the worlds largest hydropower producer.

 

[akrvbob]

Two simple scientific statements that are as accepted as fact as any scientific statement can be--they aren't open to dispute:

A) Carbon in the atmosphere causes warm air to be held in the atmosphere and keeps it from escaping back into space.
B) Humans are pumping incredible amounts of carbon into the air every day, year after year.

A + B = C

C) The earth is warming.

Then deniers scream (with no scientific facts to back them up) "No, it's the volcanoes, not people!"

If you are even a little interested in truth go to the website of the Hawaiian Volcanic Observatory here:
http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/archive/2007/07_02_15.html

First I'll summarize what they say and then quote it

1) Volcanoes do let out carbon and they have been very steadily producing an average of 200 MILLION tons of carbon per year for a very long time.

2) In 2003 humans produced 26.8 BILLION Tons of carbon into the air. Today it's 30 Billion tons per year.

Volcanoes produce less than 1% as much carbon as do humans.

"Gas studies at volcanoes worldwide have helped volcanologists tally up a global volcanic CO2 budget in the same way that nations around the globe have cooperated to determine how much CO2 is released by human activity through the burning of fossil fuels. Our studies show that globally, volcanoes on land and under the sea release a total of about 200 million tonnes of CO2 annually.

This seems like a huge amount of CO2, but a visit to the U.S. Department of Energy's Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) website (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/) helps anyone armed with a handheld calculator and a high school chemistry text put the volcanic CO2 tally into perspective. Because while 200 million tonnes of CO2 is large, the global fossil fuel CO2 emissions for 2003 tipped the scales at 26.8 billion tonnes. Thus, not only does volcanic CO2 not dwarf that of human activity, it actually comprises less than 1 percent of that value."

 

[Seraphim]

Arguing and trying to convince each other is a bit pointless.

A) Carbon in the atmosphere causes warm air to be held in the atmosphere and keeps it from escaping back into space.
B) Humans are pumping incredible amounts of carbon into the air every day, year after year.
C) The earth is currently warming.

One may make a conclusion that C is direct result of A and B, and one may conclude that A and B are the only reasons for C, while totally disregarding

D). The average temperature has been steadily rising since the Ice Age; with minor peaks and valleys in that average along the way.

Blaming ONLY A and B is naive, and I am aware of no scientist making that claim. He would be ridiculed by his peers.

 

[Seraphim]

But since you're so adamamant and concerned, what are you personally doing to cause change? I really think a lot of activists are wasting their time, chaining themselves to ships, etc, but I have a bit of respect for them because they are actually doing SOMETHING; not just ineffectively trying to convince one or two skeptics using the same old arguments over and over again. That accomplishes nothing, although it takes little effort. Someone wants to convince me they're truly concerned needs to demonstrate their concern by action; not just sitting around a hot carbon campfire spouting deoxygenated (carbon dioxide) hot air. Not meaning to offend, but that's all most 'cncerned'people actually do. Some few donate money, because that's easy: it requires no real effort. It is also, in my mind, hypocritical. I might feel a bit of respect for humanity if people would clam and DO something. But they won't. It takes their precious time and effort. Somebody ELSE needs to do something...

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

Yeah, that is a logical fallacy, correlation doesnt prove causation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

i came here looking for a cool diving knife, i am disappoint

 

[LoupGarou]

Maybe it's time for man to step aside and let woman inherit the earth.

 

[Seraphim]

Should have read "clam up and do something"

 

[Seraphim]

Maybe it's time for man to step aside and let woman inherit the earth.

I thought they already had, and we're smart enough not to get involved trying to run it...

 

[Canine]

Oh hell,Everybody knows it's all these solar panels sucking the heat out of the sun.Plus most humans are around 98.6 on the temp scale.Easy to see that when the temp is less than 98.6 we are heating the earth up.Conversly,when the temp is less than 98.6 we are cooling the earth off.Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Seraphim]

Lol solar panels merely get hot by absorbing light and converting it to heat, and increase the average temperature of the earth. But they can run AC, I've learned here, which also shoves heat into the atmosphere and ...

 

[Seraphim]

Is this the best they can offer: buying carbon indulgences?


http://www.rff.org/rff/Documents/RFF-DP-13-32.pdf

 

[akrvbob]

The explanation I just gave you fully and totally explains the very rapid rise of temperatures and no other explanation can. Scientists have considered each and every one (just like the volcano explanation) and ruled it out.

When a theory fully explains the facts, and no other theory can, it is generally accepted as the truth. But it still has to stand the test of time and this one has, everything that has happened and everything we have learned since it was first presented fully agrees with the theory. That's why we have 97% consensus among climate scientists on the theory  presented.

You presented another popular alternative theory, the theory that our current warming is just part of natural climate change over time. That theory has been fully disproven, it is as wrong as the volcano theory. I don't have time right now to break it down for you but if you will go to this NASA page they make it very simple why it has been rejected as a possible explanation for the current facts.  

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/GlobalWarming/page3.php

In a nutshell its this

The current rate of extremely fast warming is unprecedented. Nothing like it in the past record  has ever happened before and there is no explanation for it.

"As the Earth moved out of ice ages over the past million years, the global temperature rose a total of 4 to 7 degrees Celsius over about 5,000 years. In the past century alone, the temperature has climbed 0.7 degrees Celsius, roughly ten times faster than the average rate of ice-age-recovery warming.

Models predict that Earth will warm between 2 and 6 degrees Celsius in the next century. When global warming has happened at various times in the past two million years, it has taken the planet about 5,000 years to warm 5 degrees. The predicted rate of warming for the next century is at least 20 times faster. This rate of change is extremely unusual."

A diagram from the page. Something happened about 1900 that sent the temperatures skyrocketing, what could it have been? The most simple, logical explanation is that it's humans pumping carbon into the air. 

This is one page, there are hundreds of them out there. The theory I gave works 100%, none of the others do, that is why only deniers ridicule it.

I'll tell you what I'm doing in another post soon.
Bob

 

[Seraphim]

The key word you used is 'theory', with which I not only concur, but is what I already said using the word 'hypothesis'.

The rest of your post is nothing new to me. I am neither arguing for nor against either theory, but have already stated current conditions are most likely a combination of both, which also would account for any rapid unprecedented rises. It doesn't have to be just one or the either. I also think I argued against people using the same arguments over and over attempting convince skeptics who aren't going to change their minds, which is pretty much what you've just done - no offense intended. I didn't really expect an answer to my question about, other than trying to convince skeptics they're wrong, what are you actually DOING to enact change? It was actually rhetorical - but if you have a valid answer I'd like to hear it.

 

[LeeRevell]

the 97% of scientists who study these things who say it's happening.

That never ceases to give me a chuckle.........    Reality says it's running about fifty-fifty.

But I cannot trust ANYTHING promulgated by the UN.   Their track record is rather dismal, and corruption is rampant.
If China is improving, good on them.  We need to get India and Russia on board too, as they too are huge wasters of dwindling resources and a big part of the problem.
We also know there are enormous "Plastic Seas" (compared to the age-old Sargasso Sea) out in both the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, that need to be cleaned up.  A lot of that waste, much of it organic, is decomposing to produce what the HCGCC boffins call 'greenhouse gases'.  But I don't see any mention of anyone tackling that huge problem.

No matter which side of the HCGCC debate one is on, there ARE serious problems that need to be addressed in a logical and constructive manner.  Funneling huge amounts of our borrowed national treasury into a huge bloated political organization is NOT the way to do it.