Engine Knock??

James AKA Lynx · Jun 3, 2013

I am not using any oil. Dip stick looked like new oil. There is no blow when I take off the PVC or the other one on the valve covers. I had to take a quart out due to overfill and it had some dirty stuff in it after 25 miles. The oil was black and mostly did not settle in 4 days. I want to get that stuff out of the engine before it wears more that needed. Changing a few times every 50 miles I would not mind doing. Note that this was my second oil change in 240 miles.  I changed it and it looked black. I am now on my 3rd in 340 miles. When I change the oil filter, should the oil look new? If it looks dirty, should I change again the say way? Thoughts? James AKA Lynx

Zil · Jun 3, 2013

The only practical way to clean the engine and oil is to change the oil often until the sludge is gone. The filter doesn't need to be changed each oil change. I looked back and your engine doesn't have that many miles. I had one with 230000 still running fine. Make sure the ventilation system is clear and working. Use an additive that claims to clean lifters, change the oil a few times (after 1000 miles or by time if low mileage), and the problem will correct itself. If not it is time for a new lifter.

user 423 · Jun 3, 2013

Man,you're spending a small fortune on oil and filters. If you now have MMO in it, run it 500 miles and just change the oil. If the clatter is gone, then run it 3000 or so and do oil+filter. If you end up changing it more often, $13 filters are a waste IMO. I'm kinda wondering if you might have a leaky injector and the gas in the oil is acting as a detergent to rustle up more sludge? Does the oil smell like gas at all?

James AKA Lynx · Jun 3, 2013

Thanks, Lifter noise is going. I only put a few miles on per day if that. When I go camping I will put less than 200. The Tick is lessening with less than 50 miles. Next week I am going out for a drive and see what happens. Looks like I will waite for a thousand and see what happens. James AKA Lynx

James AKA Lynx · Jun 3, 2013

Oil does not smell like gas. However, these vans are know to have their fuel pumps go out around 110000 miles. I usually have to crank mine a little longer in the morning to get it going and there is a miss for a little while. James AKa Lynx

wrcsixeight · Jun 3, 2013

Don't get all OCD over the color of the new briefly used oil. Diesel engines turn black instantly after an oil change.  If color was the basis for changing the oil, Diesel owners would be peeved. Slow cleaning is what you want, and 3000 oil changes with Pennzoil and some MMO is as good a regiment as any.   The 13 dollar filters are more for those engines that have large sump capacities (like 8 quarts+) and very long OCI's, like 12 to 15000 miles.  Said the guy with the 13$ filter who does yearly oil changes <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"> Purolator 30001 is a 4$ filter which I was using for the last 7 years.  Only using the M1-301 now because it was on special with the M1 0w-40.  The Motorcraft FL-1A is also made by Purolator and is 50 cents or so cheaper than the Purolator Classic and has the  desirable threaded end bypass.  If I were doing short interval filter changes, I'd be using the Motorcraft.  The Can on the M1-301 is so thick I don't imagine it will be fun or easy to open with a chisel for inspection. Over on the Bitog forums, a product called Kreen is the current favorite faster(than MMO) cleaning engine oil additive.  Not for sale to addresses in California, so it must be good, ha. <a href="http://www.kanolabs.com/engCle.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.kanolabs.com/engCle.html</a> I would try this product before a "engine flush" type product where they say to add it to the oil, idle the engine for 10 minutes, no revving no driving, and drain it.  I think this type of product is a recipe for disaster with a known neglected engine, and probably only safe on the engine that needs no cleaning.  Or if you are going to drop the oil pan afterwards, and scoop out the debris and clean the oil screen on the pick up tube.

James AKA Lynx · Jun 4, 2013

I would like to get the oil clean before another 1000 mile trip. Timing, timing. James AKA Lynx

wrcsixeight · Jun 5, 2013

A 1000 mile trip is perfect for cleaning with a good detergent oil. Steady medium rpms to and many hours to rinse the valve covers with a steady flow of hot oil to loosen and dissolve the crud within. Much better than short trip heat cycling, just keep an eye on the level as with the MMo in there it will lower faster, even if it uses very little oil now. I think too aggressive of cleaning might reveal some less than perfect gaskets.  If the tick is gone, or nearly so, just get your moneys worth out of your filter and oil and worry about other things. If you are really anal about engine cleanliness, and want to throw more money at it, group 5 ester oils are aggressive cleaners.  Redline is primarily group 5 synthetic.  The members on Bitog would froth if you can take some before and after pics under the vlave covers of any cleaning cycles with various products you choose to fight your battle with. Just stick with the PYB and MMO, IMO.

thin air · Jun 7, 2013

Lynx... I've been an auto technician my whole life and removing a valve cover and trying to clean a lifter with carb cleaner is a futile task. If you have lifter noise try putting in a quart of transmission fluid (Type F) in with the oil before the next oil change and idle the engine for 15-30mins then drain and change the oil and filter.

Zil · Jun 7, 2013

My Second for thin air. But I used additives as well. Any name brand filter is excellent (Fram, Purolator, Atlas from Exon ect ect ect). If all you want is clean oil, use some non-detergent. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">

James AKA Lynx · Jun 7, 2013

Thanks. I wish I knew about the Transmission oil. I will try to remember that. The valve/lifter tick is almost gone. That was my main concern. My other concern was that the oil looked much darker after 25 miles. I had changed it in less than 100 miles. This was alarming to me and I believe a factor in the engine tick. I am hopeing with this next change that the engine will be much cleaner. Would the Transmission fluid F help with this? James AKA Lynx

thin air · Jun 8, 2013

type F has a little more detergent in it... transmission fluid overall seems to be a little more effective cleaner and it is usually alot cheaper and more readily available on the shelf at even the grocery store, more so than some more expensive "snake-oil-cleaners" you may have to order <img rel="lightbox" src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" class="bbc_img"> Ticking lifters are usually a sign of the lifer losing its hydraulic ability to pump up and stay pumped up, that's why the ticking noise is worse on a cold start up in the mornings after its been sitting overnight or awhile. The lifters must hold pressure and when the vehicle sits the oil is draining out of them and back down into the pan. When they lose their ability to stay pumped up (no pun intended lol) the engine is not getting proper valve lift or opening duration, therefore contributing to a rich condition and performance loss and a little extra sludge internally. The only true remedy is replacing the lifters and push rods and quite possibly the rockers if they are scored. If the push rod tips are scarred and the rockers where the push rod mates then I would order a set of valve springs also... but that's just me. I've recently done two Chevy engines with this very problem... the push rods ends were so scarred they nearly formed a pencil tip and the oil hole was completely closed. (2003 Avalanche 5.3 and a 2005 2500HD Truck 6.0 litre) both vehicles came from Adesa auction. They both got several trans fluid treatments before and after, worked like a charm.

James AKA Lynx · Jun 8, 2013

Thanks. Mine does not tick on start up. Only after it has run for a little while. Warmed up. Results so far are promising. Only ticks when accelerating.  Sometimes yes and sometimes no. I do not drive that many miles and usually only short distances. Going to take it for a 200 mile trip this week and see what it does. Redeived the Factory Service Manual. Nice. I can change the lifters myself if/when needed. Thanks, James AKA Lynx

James AKA Lynx · Jun 14, 2013

I did a 200 mile trip and no or almost no vale tick. YEA! A New problem. when starting after 80 miles, It took longer than normal and there was a bad miss for a little while. I also have a rough idle that I never solved. James AKA Lynx