Electricity Set-Up How To?

yamsack · Jun 12, 2011

Hi all, I need some help regarding how to set up a battery system in my future van.  Here's what I know.  I plan on using about 2 AGM deep cycle batteries connected to a 2500-3000 Watt inverter to power my laptop and other electrical devices.  The laptop will be on pretty much all the time, with only occasional uses of the printer, hair trimmer, microwave, etc.  Any radios, lights will all be from hand crank devices.   I plan on using a 1000 Watt Yamaha/Honda generator to re-juice my 2 batteries.  Do I still need a battery charger to serve as a controller?  If so, do I connect the generator to the charger, then to the batteries? Another option is to buy a couple of solar panels and mount them onto my van's roof.  However, I've read from here and other places that solar panels won't give me enough juice to sufficiently recharge my batteries. Any help will be much appreciated.  Thanks, all.

4x4tour · Jun 12, 2011

Your generator will have 12volt battery charging recepticle on it, which will charge the batteries, AND the starting battery if you get the Blue Sea 7622 relay.  Its one of my best purchases for my own build.  I used to have a 2000 watt KIPOR generator (honda knockoff), and it also had the 12volt charging feature.  Im a solar guy now,  though.  My Kipor was soooo hard to start after a couple days of sitting...   My Kyocera KD135 solar panel averages 7amps at 19+ volts during the day, which handles all of my needs, indefinately.  I mated it with a Morningstar sunsaver MPPT charger and optional remote meter.  It enhances low-light conditions.  Even on cloudy days, it gives 19volts....   I have an Engel Fridge/Freezer which MAX's out at 2.7 amps in Freezer mode, and less in fridge mode.  That is nothing...   I use the AIMS 1500 watt Pure Sine inverter / 10amp, 3-stage battery charger w/remote.  It works great and was a quarter of the price of the Xantrex Prosine.  Customer service is awesome as well...     Good luck.   AJ

yamsack · Jun 12, 2011

Thanks a bunch 4x4tour.  I'm still learning about all this technical stuff, so please be patient.  Specifically, whether it be a solar panel or generator, do either need to plugged first to the charger (the charger being the go-between), then the charger to the batteries?  From what I think I've learned, the charger serves as a current controller/regulator to prevent the batteries from being overcharged. Regarding your solar panel, only 1 panel is enough to juice up your batteries?

blars · Jun 13, 2011

From what I've heard, the battery charge output of most generators is not very good.  You should have a 3-stage charger/converter.  Some inverters have one buit in, but they tend to be more expensive than a cheap inverter and a good converter/charger.  Using a large inverter with a small load is not a good idea, since they are most effeciant at about half load.  It's better to get a small inverter for the constant load (or even better get a 12v addaptor for your laptop) and use the big inverter for big loads.

yamsack · Jun 13, 2011

To Blars, I forgot to mention that I will also be running (constantly) a small portable fridge in addition to the laptop.  Including occasional uses of the microwave, electric shaver, blender, printer....what is your guestimate on what size inverter I should get?

4x4tour · Jun 14, 2011

I somewhat disagree with Blars on the larger inverter/power usage issue.  It depends on the inverter.  My inverter's power demand at no-load (idle) is only .5 amp.  Thats nada, zilch... Plus, a cheap (modified sine wave) inverter WILL, one day, destroy one of your sensitive electronics, i..e. anything rechargable, cordless shavers, laptop AC cord runs hot,  lines in TV's etc...   My momma told me a LONG time ago, "son, it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and and not have it..."  It's nice being able to use my cheap harbor freight electric impact gun for changing lug nuts in a spiffy... My advice, "buy once, and not worry"... I got this one online for like 400 bucks, but here's the product page.  It comes with a USB charge port for ipods, phones, GPS etc... and a remote.  I havent seen a better bang-for-the-buck pure sine / 10amp 3-stage charger unit.  <A href="http://www.invertersrus.com/pwri150012s.html" target=_blank target=_blank>http://www.invertersrus.com/pwri150012s.html</A> Dont get me wrong, I do use a 12volt adaptor for my HP-DV7 laptop, but I only got it AFTER my smaller modified sine wave inverter fried my laptop AC cord adaptor.  Also, I like being able to run a 800 watt microwave, small house a.c. mounted in the passenger window, other AC stuff etc...  Your questions: "Thanks a bunch 4x4tour.  I'm still learning about all this technical stuff, so please be patient.  Specifically, whether it be a solar panel or generator, do either need to plugged first to the charger (the charger being the go-between), then the charger to the batteries?  From what I think I've learned, the charger serves as a current controller/regulator to prevent the batteries from being overcharged". "Regarding your solar panel, only 1 panel is enough to juice up your batteries?" ***My panel has my batteries charged by 1/2 pm.  it's a killer panel...   *** If you use a good quality 100+ watt panel, get a decent solar controller/charger (like mine), and have a couple decent deep cycles, you'd be golden.  You would then not need the inverter/charger if not using a microwave.  My solar controller is actually a 4-stage charger, and VERY efficient in low-light situations. As for easy mounting, check my post for using VHB tape.   My cheapest solar site is Arizona, wind & sun.  Google it, and learn all there is to know <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">   Here's a valuable resource web site for ya, to learn what works and what doesnt regarding outfitting a van...  Check out the various subject topics on the left of his page.   <A href="http://www.badgertrek.com/sportsmobile/appliances.shtml" target=_blank target=_blank>http://www.badgertrek.com/sportsmobile/appliances.shtml</A>   AJ

yamsack · Aug 15, 2011

@ 4x4tour    Quote "*** If you use a good quality 100+ watt panel, get a decent solar controller/charger (like mine), and have a couple decent deep cycles, you'd be golden.  You would then not need the inverter/charger if not using a microwave." I will occasionally be using my 800 Watt microwave, as well as perhaps a toaster oven.  Additionally, I plan on parking my van in shady areas to reduce the heat build up in the van.  Given all that, will the 100+ watt solar panel still be adequate to re-charge my 2 deep cycle batteries? Lastly, I know nothing about battery models #'s or styles.  All I know is that I do want to get an AGM sealed deep cycle battery, so there's no worries about fumes/discharge from the battery or having to vent anything.  Given the load (mentioned up top) that will be put on the battery, how many (or how large) does the battery need to be?  Will 1 battery be sufficient or should I get at least 2?  Please dumb down the techno references for a newbie like me.  Thanks.

4x4tour · Aug 16, 2011

"I will occasionally be using my 800 Watt microwave, as well as perhaps a toaster oven.  Additionally, I plan on parking my van in shady areas to reduce the heat build up in the van.  Given all that, will the 100+ watt solar panel still be adequate to re-charge my 2 deep cycle batteries?"     (1) Depends on how long you use them (we posted a chart somewhere on here),  (2) which solar controller you have, and (3) which batteries you have. Microwaves and toasters are massive drains.  I usually only use my microwave for a max of 5 minutes or less, when parked without the engine running.  With a 200 amp alternator, you could run the microwave all day without any drain on the batteries.  I have a 130 amp alternator now, and will see how the morningstar sunsaver mppt controller documents amperage drain (shows amp drain on meter).  I may, or may not, need a 200 amp alternator... I like to park in the shade as well, which is why I bought the sunsaver model.  It's highly rated for low-light conditions.  A couple weeks ago it was cloudy and rainy.  It was still putting out 18volts... Very impressive.  You could always use a solar extension cord, and put the panel in the sun... My KD135 is hard mounted to the roof.  "Lastly, I know nothing about battery models #'s or styles.  All I know is that I do want to get an AGM sealed deep cycle battery, so there's no worries about fumes/discharge from the battery or having to vent anything.  Given the load (mentioned up top) that will be put on the battery, how many (or how large) does the battery need to be?  Will 1 battery be sufficient or should I get at least 2?  Please dumb down the techno references for a newbie like me.  Thanks."          I chose 2 group 65 Sears Platinum P2's (re-badged Odyssey AGM's, which are military grade) and have a 5-year FREE replacement.   I bought 2 brand new ford group 65 frame battery mounts on ebay  and bolted them right up on the passenger side (Ford pre-drilled the holes for this purpose (drivers side too).  Without knowing what kind of vehicle you have, where you want the batteries etc... it's hard to give any more advice.   With only 2 batteries, I would concentrate on a GOOD low-light specialized solar controller, AND a 200amp or so alternator, so you can run the microwave/toaster without having to stress about it.  IMHO Plenty of choices here: http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/fad-alternator.html http://www.motorcityreman.com/eseriesvan.html      This is some good reading: http://www.phrannie.org/battery.html and http://www.ehow.com/how_4925656_convert-watts-amps.html

yamsack · Aug 16, 2011

@ 4x4tour  On a slightly different note, may I ask what type of cooking, if any, do you do in your vehicle?  I plan on using an alcohol stove and denatured alcohol (for fuel) to do some simple warming up of foods, boiling water or simple egg dishes.  However, I think that may become old and repetitive after a while. Can you think of any microwaves or toaster ovens that are very low wattage?  Thanks for your responses.

4x4tour · Aug 16, 2011

I use a 800 watt microwave (1200 watt peak start-up) , so my 1500 watt inverter/charger handles it.   I used to have a 600 watt one, but it took forever to heat a cup of water, especially with a modified-sine-wave inverter (pure sine is better)... I either cook with the microwave, or cook outside with my Camp Chef Camp Oven: http://www.amazon.com/Camp-Chef-Camping-Outdoor-Burner/dp/B0013LLSZG and this for egg-heaven: http://www.amazon.com/Camp-Chef-FG20-Oven-Griddle/dp/B0032OU5JM/ref=pd_rhf_shvl_3 My first test for the oven were frozen baked clams.  The oven works flawlessly.  The top burners are brass and in general, the unit is great quality.  I currently use a pancake type portable tank, but will be also installing one of these in the winter: http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/lp-gas/lp-gas-tanks.htm?source=froogle_p I don't know too many people who cook in their vehicles (even vans), as it stinks up the interior and is a fire risk.  For barbequing, I have this stored on board (on roof rack):  http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay...p;cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

VanTramp · Aug 17, 2011

Then of course there is us (Heidi and I) who cook about everything in our van. We use the built in LP stove top often as well as the microwave which is about 800 Watt also. We do use our convection/toaster oven quite a bit too. It is 1850 watt when run at max and does just fine for the average length we seem to use it. We use our crockpot usually when driving and also have a stovetec rocket stove for when we have a camp setup somewhere. <div> </div><div>It is nice to have a lot of cooking options. We keep a medium sized dutch oven and a pressure cooker along with us as well. </div><div> </div><div>Our electric setup is pretty basic. 220 AH bank of AGMs and a 2500 Watt Prosine inverter/charger. Alternator is typical 130 Amp. We don't have solar installed yet, but will have at some point before next spring. Being without it is limiting. We can go a few days with reasonable use before needing to charge again which either means plugging in for a few hours or driving. It works for us but will be much better with solar. </div><div> </div><div>Hope that helps.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

yamsack · Aug 29, 2011

@ 4x4tour   What do you think of this 68 watt flexible solar panel? http://www.amazon.com/Uni-Solar-PVL...en&ie=UTF8&qid=1314617251&sr=1-21 I was thinking to get a couple of these and use the Sunsaver charge controller.  Do you think this would be enough to recharge my 2 AGM deep cycle batteries?  I was thinking it's better to have too much than not enough.  Thanks.

4x4tour · Aug 29, 2011

Well, of course it all depends on average amps pulled by your devices, but Ive seen many of those flexible panels mounted on cargo/ski covers with success.  Did you read the review mentioning the sunsaver?   The other said you needed a terminal box.

blars · Aug 29, 2011

The flexable panels take 2 to 4 times as much area per watt as the standard panels.  They do claim to be more shade tolerant though.

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