Electricity in the Van: The Basics

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lenny flank

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NOTE: This is part of a book manuscript I am working on, so I'd appreciate any comments, additions, suggestions, etc. At this point I'm not concerned with typos and such--I'm more focused on completeness and accuracy. So please let me know if something isn't quite right or if I'm missing something I should include....

ELECTRICITY IN THE VAN

Back in my younger days as a backpacker, we used almost no electricity at all. I sometimes carried a small flashlight with me (good for reading paperback books at night), and some of the people I knew would carry small battery-operated transistor radios (to get the news and weather).

But today, the electronic revolution has changed all that. Once dismissed as “flashpackers”, today’s hikers are normally armed with a variety of electronic devices, from GPS navigators to cellphones to small “netbook” laptops. 

Van campers of course have the advantage of not having to carry everything on our backs, so we can have even more gizmos and gadgets. In a well-equipped Class B camper van, you can find virtually every electronic device that any apartment would have, from a microwave to a TV set to a Playstation. There will also be electric LED lights and perhaps an electric fridge, plus normal 110-volt outlets for anything else you want to plug in.

Those of us, however, who are converting their own campervan will probably be less lavish.

Your van, of course, will have its own battery, which is constantly recharged by the alternator. It also has a “cigarette lighter” outlet in the dash, into which you can plug charging cords for a variety of devices, including cellphones, GPS, and laptops.

For most people, however, this will not be a workable system to meet their needs. Car batteries are not designed to give repeated long periods of power; they are only designed to give short intense bursts of electricity sufficient for starting the car engine. External devices plugged into the cigarette lighter will steadily drain the battery and, unless you are constantly driving the entire time (and recharging the battery with the alternator), you will quickly end up with a dead battery.

Instead, you will want to have your own independent source of electricity that is not configured to the car battery. There are three options for this: a dual battery, a generator, or a solar panel system.

The dual-battery setup consists of adding a second battery in the back of your van, to be used as your “house” source of electric power, and connecting this to your alternator so it charges up whenever the van is running. For this, you will need a “deep cycle” battery, which, unlike car batteries, is designed to give a steady electric current over a long period of time, and to last through many hundreds of cycles of draining and recharging. Deep cycle batteries are used to power electric motorboat engines, and can be found in virtually any marine supply store.

These batteries come in a selection of sizes and power outputs, measured in “amp-hours”. They also come in different types. Some deep-cycle batteries are “wet”; they use diluted sulfuric acid and lead plates to store their current. They are very heavy, and they need to be periodically opened and filled with water. Since wet-cell type batteries can release sulfuric fumes which can be harmful in an enclosed space, and since they can sometimes leak acid, they are not really suitable for use in a camper van. A much better option are the “sealed” batteries: the “AGMs” use glass-fiber mats soaked with acid, and the “Gel” batteries use a thickened jelly to contain the acid. These are also very heavy, but they don’t leak, don’t release fumes, and don’t need to be topped off with water. You will want to get a sealed deep-cycle battery with the highest amp-hour rating that you can afford.

Wiring this system is complicated and can be dangerous if it isn’t done right, so you will likely want a mechanic or electrician to do it for you. You will be stringing cables from your van’s alternator to your house battery, so the alternator feeds electricity to charge both your van battery and your house battery, and you will be wiring up some sort of plug to your house battery (the most commonly-used is a cigarette-lighter type outlet) into which you can connect your electric devices like phone chargers or laptops. To prevent the house battery from pulling electricity from your vehicle battery, it will be isolated by a switch or a solenoid, allowing you to draw power only from the house battery whenever you are parked.

The dual-battery setup has the advantage of being inexpensive—all you need is an extra battery and some wiring. But it has severe limitations: your house battery will only be charging when the engine is running, so if you park for a period of days at a time, you will wear down the battery. This made it unsuitable for me. And the system is good only for producing and storing a relatively small amount of electricity. If you plan on using a number of electric devices with large power requirements, this system will probably not be able to handle it.

Larger amounts of electrical power, therefore, can be produced using a generator. Generators are, essentially, small gasoline engines that turn a wire coil inside a magnet to produce electric current. These come in a variety of sizes and produce different amounts of electricity. The greater the amount of electricity you use every day, the more powerful generator you will need. Most generators have built-in electrical outlets—these provide the same 110-volt electricity that your home outlets do, and you can plug anything into them which you can plug into the wall at home.

Generators are far more useful, however, if they are set up to charge a “battery bank” instead. 

Without getting all mathy, every electric device you plug in consumes a particular number of “amps” per hour. So you must have sufficient battery power to provide all the amps you will need for the number of hours that you plan to run your devices in between charges, and that usually means more than one house battery. Some devices, such as small fans or LED lightbulbs, use less than one-half amp per hour. Most laptops use about five or six amps per hour. Other devices, like microwave ovens, can use several hundred amps per hour (but of course you will only be running it for five or ten minutes a day). So you will have to figure out the total amps that each of your devices will use, add them all up, and that will determine how much battery capacity you will need. 

Let’s say that your total amp usage will be 10 amps per hour, and you plan on running these devices 5 hours a day for two days before recharging the batteries again. That gives a total of 100 amp-hours. However, since deep-cycle batteries can be damaged if they are discharged below 50% of their capacity, you will want to save your battery life by providing a capacity that is twice what you expect to actually use—so in this example you will actually need 200 amp-hours of battery storage. You can obtain this by wiring two 100 amp-hour batteries together or with one larger 200 amp-hour battery. 
The idea is to run the generator to charge up the battery bank (your generator must be large enough to quickly recharge the batteries), then run all your devices from the batteries. If you use less electricity than planned, you can go longer between charges. If you use more electricity than planned, you will need to recharge more often—or you will have to add more battery capacity to your bank.

But you are not finished yet….

Deep-cycle batteries produce a DC current at 12 volts of power. Nearly all standard electrical devices, however, are built to run off ordinary household AC current at 110 volts. (There are a variety of devices specifically made for RVs, such as fridges and microwaves, that run on 12 volt DC, but these are found only in specialty shops. Some people, though, equip their entire van setup with 12v appliances.) You will therefore likely need to connect your battery bank to an “inverter”, which will transform the current from the batteries into ordinary household 110-volt AC. The inverter will provide you with a number of standard electrical outlets, into which you can plug your devices just as you would at home. (The inverter itself will also use up a non-trivial amount of your electricity, so you should keep it turned off any time you are not actually charging something up.)

The generator/battery bank system is a workable one, and is used by many people, especially in large RVs. I, however, don’t like it and don’t use it. The disadvantages of the generator are many; it is very loud when it runs (it’s like running a lawn mower), and you will annoy everyone within earshot whenever you charge your batteries. Another disadvantage is that the generator requires gasoline fuel to operate, which is just another thing that you have to periodically run out and get, and takes up storage space (and I don’t like the idea of having a gasoline can inside the van). And generators are big and take up a lot of room. On a large Class A motorhome, the generator is usually mounted outside. For most people in a camper van, they will simply not be a usable option.

Fortunately, there is a better (and greener) alternative for the smaller van camper—the photovoltaic solar panel.
In years past, solar panels were horribly expensive. But in just the last few years, the price has plummeted dramatically as more and more people have bought them to use in their homes. For the van camper, a solar panel system can provide all the electricity you need, quietly, steadily, and, once installed, for free.

The solar electric system consists of four basic components. First is the inverter—this is where you will be provided with the 110-volt outlets that you can plug your devices into. Next is the battery bank—this is where the electric current produced by the system is stored until you use it. Then there is a device known as the “charge controller”, which regulates the amount of current flowing from the solar panel to the battery. And finally the solar panel(s), which produce all the electricity you will use.

The size of the battery bank is, again, determined by how many amp-hours you will actually be using each day. The size of the solar panel capacity is determined by the size of the battery pack you need to charge. Most solar panels come in standard 100-watt and 200-watt sizes. As a very rough rule of thumb, 100 watts of solar panel power is usually enough to recharge 100 amp-hours of battery capacity in a typical summer day. So if, as in our example above, you have 200 amp-hours of battery capacity, you would need to put either two 100-watt panels on your van’s roof, or one 200-watt.

But there’s a catch (and here comes the disadvantage of a solar panel system over a generator)……

The bane of any solar panel array is rain and cloudy weather. While most solar panels today are efficient enough in their capture of light that they can still produce electricity in the rain (mine even produces a small charge if I park under a bright streetlamp at night), this will be much less than the charge produced on a sunny day (and keep in mind that the shorter days and less direct sunshine in winter produces much less charge on the panel than in summer—and some geographical areas, like the Pacific Northwest, are notorious for their lack of sunshine). So you will want some extra capacity, at least double, in both the battery bank and the solar panels, to get you through cloudy days. In our example above, where you are using 200 amp-hours of battery with a generator, you would need a total of 400 amp-hours of battery capacity with solar, and then two 200-watt panels to charge it.

In my case, my need for electricity is pretty small: I have my laptop, which I charge every night; a small electric fan which I use on hot nights; my camera batteries, which I charge every few days; a couple of small LED “hockey puck” push-lights for the van interior, which run on AAA batteries that get recharged once a week or so; and my electric razor, which gets used each morning. In total, these add up to about 6 amps per hour. So, running these for a total of four hours a day means I draw 24 amp-hours in a 24-hour period, meaning I require a minimum of 48 amp-hours of battery capacity to last me one day.  My actual battery bank therefore consists of just a single 105 amp-hour marine battery. (I do have the option of expanding the system whenever necessary in the future by adding solar panels and batteries.)

So my electrical system consists of a single 100 watt solar panel on the roof, which runs inside to a charge controller that regulates the current to the battery. When the battery is low, the charge controller sends current from the solar panel to charge it; when the battery is full, the controller shuts off the solar panel. The battery in turn sends current to the inverter, which is where I can plug in my laptop, camera battery, etc, the same way as an electrical outlet at home. A full charge will give me about two days’ worth of typical electricity usage. In periods of cloudy weather, I can temporarily run the battery right down to the absolute minimum and get four days on a full charge. The only time this system has ever let me down is during the rare periods when it has been rainy and cloudy all week.
 
Good ideas, two things I would add would be type of connectors to use on your wiring, and also the difference between solar charge controllers pwm and mppt. For me that was something that was very confusing when I started solar.

But what I  found out about pwm and mppt when I connected to different controllers and solar panels. The mppt requires high voltage panels to increase the amps, it takes the excess voltage and runs it through its circuitry and increases the amps.

120 watt 20 volt solar panel connected to
10 amp pwm solar controller = 6 amps produce
20 amp ecoworthy mppt solar controller = 6 amps produce

240 watt 36 volt sharp solar panel
10 amp pwm controller = 7 amps produce
20 amp ecoworthy mppt solar controller = up to 15 amps produce

A large panel with mppt will even give you power when its raining, I have have seen up to 3 amps, a small panel will usually be at 0 amps.

As far as connectors, they have powerpoles, sae, cigarette adapters, ec3, xt60,mc4.
Cigarette adapters are suppose to handle 15 amps, but most get hot and melt at those amps and they are easy to disconnect. wouldnt recommend these for everyday use.
SAE connectors can handle more amps, but there is no standard positive side and negative. I stay away from these because they can be connected wrong.
mc4 are found in the solar panels because they are waterproof, I only use on roof. These can be built wrong, positive on the negative and vice versa. I always doublecheck these since both wires are black.
powerpoles can handle higher currents up to 45 amps but require special crimper to put together and are more expensive, but they are very popular in the 12 volt world.
xt60 and ec3 are about the same, mainly used in the RC world. Requires a solder gun to put together. ec3 are harder to put together. xt60 are easier to solder and you can buy 10 pairs for less than 10 dollars.
I use these xt60 on everything, easy to put together and seperate, impossible to hook up backwards and they can handle up to 60 amps.

type connectors.jpg
 

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Lenny, Please read the solar education threads here, and rewright this chapter.  


[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]When the battery is low, the charge controller sends current from the solar panel to charge it;[/font]


No.  The controller regulates the power input, and as soon as a drain is detected,  ~~~    And much more than that.  Read so you understand and can put it in your own words.  


Last week I installed a system that was producing almost 10 Amps on a cloudy day.  One 100W Renogy Eclips on the roof, and two set up as remote.
 

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Hey Lenny, good article but a couple of points.

I guess we are doing the 'fact-checking' and 'proof-reading' so its not like we are nit-picking really.

And who will be the target audience?

Some of us might find errors that don't matter if it will be published as a guide for beginners, but if it will be a full-on installation guide, then little details will matter.

Years ago I read something in a book about RVs where the author mentioned that some semi trucks, during the winter, use a cover on the front of the grill (called a 'winter-front') to keep the diesel fuel warm...Not true at all, but he wrote it, nobody checked it, and it ended up in print. We actually used winter-fronts to keep the interior of the cab warmer, since the coolant would run hotter, and we treated the fuel with additive or used fuel heaters in the fuel lines to keep the fuel from 'gelling'.

I like that you are asking for input, that helps the final product be more accurate and usable.

One thing I hung up on was the mention about motorboats...I would mention that deep cycle (slash) starting batteries are used for electric trolling motors, not "to power electric motorboat engines", although there are some small electric boats out there.

Don't wanna get hung up on marine use of deep cycle batteries but it could stand a little clarification.

Next, the 'mathy' part of the 'amp hour' statements needs a bit of work...but again, it depends on your intended audience.

Nothing on 12 volts (or any voltage) use so many 'amps per hour', a device might pull so many amps, period, then if you need to know the total draw over a period of time, then we express that as amp-hours, ah, Ah, etc, which is the number of amps TIMES the number of hours.

'Amps per hour' is not a measurement of energy like say, gallons per hour would be for a water pump....

Amps is simply a way to measure instantaneous (or average) current flow thru a wire or other conductor.

Ampere-hours, amp-hours, or Ah can actually express amperage consumed over a period of time, such as what might be drawn from a battery.

It's the same with power and wattage.

A solar panel might be able to produce, say, 120 watts, but the measurement for a day's production is expressed in so many watt-hours, (not watts per hour) Lets say, 120 watts produced for 10 hours, so you multiply them to arrive at 1200 wh (watt-hours) or 1.2 kwh (kilowatt-hours) during that day.


Another example that's easier to understand is that a 100 watt light bulb burning for 5 hours consumes 500 watt-hours or wh, not 100, or 500 watts per hour. And if that bulb was running on 120 v, it is pulling approximately .83 amps, but not .83 amps per hour.

You could also express the amperage used within an hour by saying it is using .83 Ah(amp-hours), or that it used 8.3 amp-hours for 10 hours use. This would make it run (in theory) for approximately 10 hours on an 8 ah battery, not counting losses and voltage drops.

Hopefully all this is as clear as mud....
 
tx2sturgis said:
Some of us might find errors that don't matter if it will be published as a guide for beginners, but if it will be a full-on installation guide, then little details will matter.

I don't mind nitpicking.  :)

It's not an installation guide, nor am I looking to be very detailed. I'm not an electrician nor do I pretend to be one. Just a basic idea for new or potential van-campers of what the options are for various electrical systems, and what the strengths and weaknesses of those options are.
 
lenny flank said:
NOTE: This is part of a book manuscript I am working on, so I'd appreciate any comments, additions, suggestions, etc. At this point I'm not concerned with typos and such--I'm more focused on completeness and accuracy. So please let me know if something isn't quite right or if I'm missing something I should include....

ELECTRICITY IN THE VAN

There will also be electric LED lights and perhaps an electric fridge, plus normal 110-volt outlets for anything else you want to plug in. microwave

Those of us, however, who are converting their own campervan will probably be less lavish. ... van into a camper

Your van, of course, will have its own starting battery, which is constantly recharged by the alternator. It also has a “cigarette lighter/power point” outlet in the dash or other handy locations, into which you can plug charging cords for a variety of devices, including cellphones, GPS, small inverters and laptops.

For most people, however, this will not be a workable system to meet their needs. Starting batteries are not designed to give repeated long periods of power; they are only designed to give short intense bursts of electricity sufficient for starting the (delete car) engine. External devices plugged into the cigarette lighter/power points will steadily drain the battery and, unless you are constantly driving the entire time (and recharging the battery with the alternator), you will quickly end up with a dead battery.

Instead, you will want to have your own independent source of electricity that is not configured to the (delete car) battery. There are three four options for this: a dual battery, a jump pack, a generator, or a solar panel system.

The dual-battery setup consists of adding a second battery in the back of your van, to be used as your “house” source of electric power, and connecting this to your alternator so it charges up whenever the van is running. For this, you will need a “deep cycle” battery, which, unlike car batteries, is designed to give a steady electric current over a long period of time, and to last through many hundreds of cycles of draining and recharging. Deep cycle batteries are used to power electric motorboat engines, and can be found in virtually any marine supply store.

add a description of the newer lithium-ion jump packs here, noting that they are not large batteries yet are very handy, easily rechargeable and small/very lightweight in size

These batteries come in a selection of sizes and power outputs, measured in “amp-hours”. They also come in different types. Some deep-cycle batteries are “wet”; they use diluted sulfuric acid and lead plates to store their current. They are very heavy, and they need to be periodically opened and filled with water. Since wet-cell type batteries can release sulfuric fumes which can be harmful in an enclosed space, and since they can sometimes leak acid, they are not really suitable for use in a camper van. A much better option are the “sealed” batteries: the “AGMs” use glass-fiber mats soaked with acid, and the “Gel” batteries use a thickened jelly to contain the acid. These are also very heavy, but they don’t leak, don’t release fumes , and don’t need to be topped off with water. You will want to get a sealed deep-cycle battery with the highest amp-hour rating that you can afford.

Wiring this system is complicated and can be dangerous if it isn’t done right, so you will likely want a mechanic or insert "auto" electrician to do it for you. You will be stringing cables from your van’s alternator to your house battery, so the alternator feeds electricity to charge both your van battery and your house battery, and you will be wiring up some sort of plug to your house battery (the most commonly-used is a cigarette-lighter/power point type outlet) into which you can connect your electric devices like phone chargers or laptops. To prevent the house battery from pulling electricity from your vehicle battery, it will be isolated by a switch or a solenoid, allowing you to draw power only from the house battery whenever you are parked.

The dual-battery setup has the advantage of being inexpensive—all you need is an extra battery and some wiring no, you need a solenoid too. But it has severe limitations: your house battery will only be charging when the engine is running, so if you park for a period of days at a time, you will wear down the battery not so with the continous duty solenoids. This made it unsuitable for me. And the system is good only for producing and storing a relatively small amount of electricity. If you plan on using a number of electric devices with large power requirements, this system will probably not be able to handle it. Thats not accurate, several paired 6v golf cart batteries can have a tremendous amp hour capacity. It;s how you recharge them that's the point.

Larger amounts of electrical power, therefore, can be produced using a generator. Generators are, essentially, small gasoline engines that turn a wire coil inside a magnet to produce electric current. These come in a variety of sizes and produce different amounts of electricity. The greater the amount of electricity you use every day, the more powerful generator you will need. Most generators have built-in electrical outlets—these provide the same 110-volt electricity that your home outlets do, and you can plug anything into them which you can plug into the wall at home.

Generators are far more useful, however, if they are set up to charge a “battery bank” instead. Talk about the superiority of the newer inverter-generators so your reader doesn't go buy a clunky contractor generator!

Without getting all mathy, every electric device you plug in consumes a particular number of “amps” per hour. So you must have sufficient battery power to provide all the amps you will need for the number of hours that you plan to run your devices in between charges, and that usually means more than one house battery. Some devices, such as small fans or LED lightbulbs, use less than one-half amp per hour. Most laptops use about five or six amps per hour. Other devices, like microwave ovens, can use several hundred amps per hour (but of course you will only be running it for five or ten minutes a day not so, but the idea really is about 2 amps per minute...). So you will have to figure out the total amps that each of your devices will use, add them all up, and that will determine how much battery capacity you will need. Simplistic method, you forget inverters and their inefficiencies, cable loss etc... best multiply your amp hour expected usage by a factor of 1.25,

Let’s say that your total amp usage will be 10 amps per hour, and you plan on running these devices 5 hours a day for two days before recharging the batteries again. That gives a total of 100 amp-hours. However, since deep-cycle batteries can be damaged if they are discharged below 50% of their capacity, you will want to save your battery life by providing a capacity that is twice what you expect to actually use—so in this example you will actually need 200 amp-hours of battery storage. You can obtain this by wiring two 100 amp-hour batteries together or with one larger 200 amp-hour battery. 
The idea is to run the generator to charge up the battery bank (your generator must be large enough to quickly recharge the batteries), then run all your devices from the batteries. If you use less electricity than planned, you can go longer between charges. If you use more electricity than planned, you will need to recharge more often—or you will have to add more battery capacity to your bank. You should mention that a mere generator is a poor battery charger, many of the smaller 1-2K inverter generators like Honda2000 are limited to 8 amps output for dc charging. So now your reader needs to buy a separate high power  a/c battery charger...

But you are not finished yet….

Deep-cycle batteries produce a DC current at 12 volts of power. Nearly all standard electrical devices, however, are built to run off ordinary household AC current at 110 volts. (There are a variety of devices specifically made for RVs, such as fridges and microwaves, that run on 12 volt DC, but these are found only in specialty shops. Some people, though, equip their entire van setup with 12v appliances.) You will therefore likely need to connect your battery bank to an “inverter”, which will transform the current from the batteries into ordinary household 110-volt AC. The inverter will provide you with a number of standard electrical outlets, into which you can plug your devices just as you would at home. (The inverter itself will also use up a non-trivial amount of your electricity, so you should keep it turned off any time you are not actually charging something up.) ok now talk about the diff between MSW and PSW for your laptops and microwaves, and talk about inverter inefficiencies and surge requirements...

The generator/battery bank system is a workable one, and is used by many people, especially in large RVs. I, however, don’t like it and don’t use it. The disadvantages of the generator are many; it is very loud when it runs (it’s like running a lawn mower), and you will annoy everyone within earshot whenever you charge your batteries. Another disadvantage is that the generator requires gasoline fuel to operate, which is just another thing that you have to periodically run out and get, and takes up storage space (and I don’t like the idea of having a gasoline can inside the van). And generators are big and take up a lot of room. On a large Class A motorhome, the generator is usually mounted outside.

No, they are mounted inside the vehicle, same as class B's and class C's *** I dont know how to "RED" this after I've posted the reply***

For most people in a camper van, they will simply not be a usable option.

Fortunately, there is a better (and greener) alternative for the smaller van camper—the photovoltaic solar panel.
In years past, solar panels were horribly expensive. But in just the last few years, the price has plummeted dramatically as more and more people have bought them to use in their homes. For the van camper, a solar panel system can provide all the electricity you need, quietly, steadily, and, once installed, for free.

The solar electric system consists of four basic components. First is the inverter—this is where you will be provided with the 110-volt outlets that you can plug your devices into. Next is the battery bank—this is where the electric current produced by the system is stored until you use it. Then there is a device known as the “charge controller”, which regulates the amount of current flowing from the solar panel to the battery. And finally the solar panel(s), which produce all the electricity you will use.

The size of the battery bank is, again, determined by how many amp-hours you will actually be using each day. The size of the solar panel capacity is determined by the size of the battery pack you need to charge. Most solar panels come in standard 100-watt and 200-watt sizes. As a very rough rule of thumb, 100 watts of solar panel power is usually enough to recharge 100 amp-hours of battery capacity in a typical summer day. So if, as in our example above, you have 200 amp-hours of battery capacity, you would need to put either two 100-watt panels on your van’s roof, or one 200-watt. 

But there’s a catch (and here comes the disadvantage of a solar panel system over a generator)……
conventional wisdom is that a 1:1 is absolutely minimal, better a 1.5/1 or 2/1 for weather/latitude/non-tilted conditions.
The bane of any solar panel array is rain and cloudy weather. While most solar panels today are efficient enough in their capture of light that they can still produce electricity in the rain (mine even produces a small charge if I park under a bright streetlamp at night), this will be much less than the charge produced on a sunny day (and keep in mind that the shorter days and less direct sunshine in winter produces much less charge on the panel than in summer—and some geographical areas, like the Pacific Northwest, are notorious for their lack of sunshine). So you will want some extra capacity, at least double, in both the battery bank and the solar panels, to get you through cloudy days. In our example above, where you are using 200 amp-hours of battery with a generator, you would need a total of 400 amp-hours of battery capacity with solar, and then two 200-watt panels to charge it.

In my case, my need for electricity is pretty small: I have my laptop, which I charge every night; a small electric fan which I use on hot nights; my camera batteries, which I charge every few days; a couple of small LED “hockey puck” push-lights for the van interior, which run on AAA batteries that get recharged once a week or so; and my electric razor, which gets used each morning. In total, these add up to about 6 amps per hour. So, running these for a total of four hours a day means I draw 24 amp-hours in a 24-hour period, meaning I require a minimum of 48 amp-hours of battery capacity to last me one day.  My actual battery bank therefore consists of just a single 105 amp-hour marine battery. (I do have the option of expanding the system whenever necessary in the future by adding solar panels and batteries.) also mention that your readers energy hog laptop should not be run off an inverter, rather, find a 12v auto power brick for it, and reduce the screen brightness if possible

So my electrical system consists of a single 100 watt solar panel on the roof, which runs inside to a charge controller that regulates the current to the battery. When the battery is low, the charge controller sends current from the solar panel to charge it; when the battery is full, the controller shuts off the solar panel. The battery in turn sends current to the inverter, which is where I can plug in my laptop, camera battery, etc, the same way as an electrical outlet at home. A full charge will give me about two days’ worth of typical electricity usage. In periods of cloudy weather, I can temporarily run the battery right down to the absolute minimum and get four days on a full charge. The only time this system has ever let me down is during the rare periods when it has been rainy and cloudy all week.
 
tx2sturgis said:
'Amps per hour' is not a measurement of energy like say, gallons per hour would be for a water pump....
Yeh, I think what I am trying to say is "total number of amps used by all your stuff, times how many hours you want to be able to go on a charged battery."
So I think I wanna replace 'amps per hour" with just "amps".
 
(snip lots of good stuff from This world isn't home)

Ah, thanks for that. That is very helpful. :)
 
I missed "redding" that sentence about class B and C rv's having their generators always inside a separate compartment...
 
I think you should mention that it takes hours to properly recharge your battery(s). you are not going to run your van or generator for 2 hours and have your batteries back at 100%. it takes at least 6 hours or more like 8 hours to get back to 100%.

also you should mention that your battery(s) should be recharged ASAP after a discharge. daily works. leaving the battery sit all day with less than a 100% SOC will severely shorten there life if done time after time. highdesertranger
 
Many thanks to everyone. Although some of this information is more specific and detailed than I want to be (this is just a basic introduction to compare the rough requirements and relative strengths and weaknesses of all the different systems), I appreciate it.

:)
 
Hey, Gotsmart... What year make and model is that trailer?
Looks cool, and affordable!
Any ideas on cost of it and the solar system upgrades?
 
lenny flank said:
Many thanks to everyone. Although some of this information is more specific and detailed than I want to be (this is just a basic introduction to compare the rough requirements and relative strengths and weaknesses of all the different systems), I appreciate it.

:)

:huh:

Sorry, but you asked.

That is why I tried to have you study this out for yourself.  One wrong detail could have someone make an expensive mistake.   You also need to understand exactly what it is you are telling people on a potentialy dangerous subject.  One mistake can burn a rig down.
 
galladanb said:
Hey, Gotsmart... What year make and model is that trailer?
Looks cool, and affordable!
Any ideas on cost of it and the solar system upgrades?

I would not recommend that unit.  No capacity for a standard battery bank.  The reason for the remote panel set up, is a bad design of the roof.  Nothing to attach panels to.  It started out with one of these systems.

https://www.renogy.com/renogy-300-watt-12-volt-eclipse-solar-premium-kit/

Along with the inverter, batteries and parts, (DETAILS)  you are looking at a bulletproof system for $1700 or so. (parts)  Top of the line  Factory guarenteed.

PM me for details so this thread is not hijacked.
 
GotSmart said:
:huh:

Sorry, but you asked.

That is why I tried to have you study this out for yourself.  One wrong detail could have someone make an expensive mistake.   You also need to understand exactly what it is you are telling people on a potentialy dangerous subject.  One mistake can burn a rig down.


That's why I am not writing an installation manual. Just a basic guide to the pros and cons of each system.  :)

Dual battery: cheapest option, but only good for low electricity usage.

Generator: Produces more power, but is logistically difficult

Solar: Flexible and expandable, but is the most expensive option, and isn't suitable in some conditions

The installation process falls outside the scope of the manuscript. It's not a how-to for installing electrical systems. I'm not an electrician nor do I pretend to be one. I've always recommended that people do what I did--leave the installation to the pros, for precisely the reason you mention (it's potentially dangerous to do it yourself).
 
OK, here is the re-written Version 2.0 of the chapter. Once again I welcome any suggestions, additions, or corrections. :)

Back in my younger days as a backpacker, we used almost no electricity at all. I sometimes carried a small flashlight with me (good for reading paperback books at night), and some of the people I knew would carry small battery-operated transistor radios (to get the news and weather).

But today, the electronic revolution has changed all that. Once dismissed as “flashpackers”, today’s hikers are normally armed with a variety of electronic devices, from GPS navigators to cellphones to small “netbook” laptops.

Van campers of course have the advantage of not having to carry everything on our backs, so we can have even more gizmos and gadgets. In a well-equipped Class B camper van, you can find virtually every electronic device that any apartment would have, from a microwave to a TV set to a Playstation. There will also be electric LED lights and perhaps an electric fridge, plus normal 110-volt outlets for anything else you want to plug in.

Those of us, however, who are converting their own campervan will probably be less lavish. So let’s take a look at some of the options you have for providing electricity inside your van, and the pros and cons of each. (Note: This is not a how-to manual or installation guide—I am not an electrician nor do I pretend to be one, and since wiring an electrical system is complicated and can be dangerous if it isn’t done right, you will likely want a mechanic or vehicle electrician to do it for you.)

Your van, of course, will have its own starting battery, which is constantly recharged by the alternator. It also has a “cigarette lighter” outlet in the dash, and some vans have “power points” in the rear, into which you can plug charging cords for a variety of devices, including cellphones, GPS, and laptops.

For most people, however, this will not be a workable system to meet their needs. Vehicle starting batteries are not designed to give repeated long periods of power; they are only designed to give short intense bursts of electricity sufficient for starting the engine. External devices plugged into the power outlets will steadily drain the battery and, unless you are constantly driving the entire time (and recharging the battery with the alternator), you will quickly end up with a dead battery.

Instead, you will want to have your own independent source of electricity that is not configured to the van’s battery. There are three options for this: a dual battery, a generator, and a solar panel system.

The dual-battery setup consists of adding a second battery in the back of your van, to be used as your “house” source of electric power, and connecting this to your alternator so it charges up whenever the engine is running. For this, you will need a “deep cycle” battery, which, unlike a vehicle starting battery, is designed to give a steady electric current over a long period of time, and to last through many hundreds of cycles of draining and recharging. Deep cycle batteries are used to power electric trolling motors for fishing boats, and can be found in virtually any marine supply store.

These batteries come in a selection of sizes and power outputs, measured in “amp-hours”. They also come in different types. Some deep-cycle batteries are “wet”; they use diluted sulfuric acid and lead plates to store their current. They are very heavy, and they need to be periodically opened and filled with water. Since wet-cell type batteries can release fumes and need to be vented, they are not really suitable for use in a camper van. A much better option are the “sealed” batteries: the “AGMs” use glass-fiber mats soaked with acid, and the “Gel” batteries use a thickened jelly to contain the acid. These are also very heavy, but they don’t leak, don’t release fumes, and don’t need to be topped off with water. (Many van-dwellers prefer to wire together a number of smaller batteries together, which then makes each individual battery easier to carry and move.)

You will be stringing cables from your van’s alternator to your house battery so the alternator feeds electricity to charge both your starting battery and your house battery, and you will be wiring up some sort of plug to your house battery (the most commonly-used is a cigarette-lighter type outlet) into which you can connect your electric devices like phone chargers or laptops. To prevent the house battery from pulling electricity from your vehicle battery, it will be isolated by a switch or a solenoid, allowing you to draw power only from the house battery whenever you are parked.
The dual-battery setup has the advantage of being inexpensive—all you need is an extra battery and some electrical connections. But it has severe limitations: your house battery will only be charging when the engine is running, so if you park for a period of days at a time without driving to recharge it, you will wear down your house battery. This made it unsuitable for me. And the system is limited in its recharging capability. It’s good for a phone and maybe a laptop, but if you plan on using a number of electric devices with large power requirements, this system will probably not be able to handle it.

Larger amounts of electrical power, therefore, can be produced using a generator. “Inverter generators” are, essentially, small gasoline engines that turn a wire coil inside a magnet to produce electric current. These come in a variety of sizes and produce different amounts of electricity. The greater the amount of electricity that you use every day, the more powerful generator you will need. Most generators have built-in electrical outlets—these provide the same 110-volt electricity that your home outlets do, and you can plug anything into them which you can plug into the wall at home.
Generators are far more useful, however, if they are set up to charge a “battery bank” instead.

Without getting all mathy, every electric device you plug in consumes a particular number of amps. So you must have sufficient battery power to provide all the amps you will need to run your devices in between charges. Some devices, such as small fans or LED lightbulbs, use less than one-half amp. Most laptops use about five or six amps. Other devices, like microwave ovens, can use a few amps per minute (but of course you will only be running it for five or ten minutes a day). So you will have to figure out the total amps that each of your devices will use, add them all up, and that will roughly determine how much battery capacity you will need (plus a fudge factor for wire and inverter loss).

Let’s say that your total amp usage will be 10 amps, and you plan on running these devices 5 hours a day for two days before recharging the batteries again. That gives a total of 100 amp-hours. However, since deep-cycle batteries can be damaged if they are discharged below 50% of their capacity, you will want to save your battery life by providing a capacity that is at least twice what you expect to actually use—so in this example you will actually need a minimum of 200 amp-hours of battery storage. You can obtain this by wiring two 100 amp-hour batteries together or with one larger 200 amp-hour battery.

The idea is to run the generator to charge up the battery bank (your generator must be large enough to recharge the batteries, and this will take a good part of the night to do), then run all your devices from the batteries. If you use less electricity than planned, you can go longer between charges. If you use more electricity than planned, you will need to recharge more often—or you will have to add more battery capacity to your bank.

But you are not finished yet….

Deep-cycle batteries produce a DC current at 12 volts of power. Nearly all standard electrical devices, however, are built to run off ordinary household AC current at 110 volts. (There are a variety of devices specifically made for RVs, such as fridges and microwaves, that run on 12 volt DC, but these are found only in specialty shops. Some people, though, equip their entire van setup with 12v appliances.) You will therefore likely need to connect your battery bank to an “inverter”, which will transform the current from the batteries into ordinary household 110-volt AC. The inverter will provide you with a number of standard electrical outlets, into which you can plug your devices just as you would at home. (The inverter itself will also use up a non-trivial amount of your electricity, so you should keep it turned off any time you are not actually charging something up.)

The generator/battery bank system is a workable one, and is used by many people, especially in large RVs. I, however, don’t like it and don’t use it. The disadvantages of the generator are many; it is very loud when it runs (it’s like running a lawn mower), and you will annoy everyone within earshot whenever you charge your batteries. Another disadvantage is that the generator requires gasoline fuel to operate, which is just another thing that you have to periodically run out and get, and takes up storage space (and I don’t like the idea of having a gasoline can inside the van).

Fortunately, there is a better (and greener) alternative for the van camper—the photovoltaic solar panel.

In years past, solar panels were horribly expensive. But in just the last few years, the price has plummeted dramatically as more and more people have bought them to use in their homes. For the van camper, a solar panel system can provide all the electricity you need, quietly, steadily, and, once installed, for free. (It is still, however, the most expensive option.)

The solar electric system consists of four basic components. First is the inverter—this is where you will be provided with the 110-volt outlets that you can plug your devices into. Next is the battery bank—this is where the electric current produced by the system is stored until you use it. Then there is a device known as the “charge controller”, which regulates the amount of current flowing from the solar panel to the battery. And finally the solar panel(s), which produce all the electricity you will use.

The size of the battery bank is, again, determined by how many amp-hours you will actually be using each day. The size of the solar panel capacity is determined by the size of the battery pack you need to charge. Most solar panels come in standard 100-watt and 200-watt sizes. As a very rough rule of thumb, 100 watts of solar panel power is the bare minimum to recharge 100 amp-hours of battery capacity in a typical summer day. So if, as in our example above, you have 200 amp-hours of battery capacity, you would need to put at least either two 100-watt panels on your van’s roof, or one 200-watt. You may find that you need as much as twice that, depending on your geographic location and the time of year.

But there’s a catch (and here comes the disadvantage of a solar panel system over a generator)……

The bane of any solar panel array is rain and cloudy weather. While most solar panels today are efficient enough in their capture of light that they can still produce electricity in the rain (mine even produces a small charge if I park under a bright streetlamp at night), this will be much less than the charge produced on a sunny day (and keep in mind that the shorter days and less direct sunshine in winter produces much less charge on the panel than in summer—and some geographical areas, like the Pacific Northwest, are notorious for their lack of sunshine). So you will want some extra capacity, at least double, in both the battery bank and the solar panels, to get you through cloudy days. In our example above, where you are using 200 amp-hours of battery with a generator, you would need at least 400 amp-hours of battery capacity with solar, and then at least two 200-watt panels to charge it.

The newest option for vancampers are the lithium-ion batteries. These are somewhat similar to the technology used in your laptop: they are much smaller and weigh a lot less than lead-acid deep-cycle batteries, they can be more fully discharged in use without damage, and they have a longer useful lifetime. Another advantage of lithium-ion is that they can be left for long periods of time at partial charge (lead-acid batteries can be damaged if they are not maintained at full charge). The big disadvantage of lithium-ion, though, is that they cost over twice as much as lead-acid AGMs, and they require expensive control systems. As they become less costly over time, lithium-ions may replace deep-cycle lead batteries as the standard.

To sum up, then: dual battery systems are the least expansive option, but provide only a limited amount of electricity; generators provide more power but are logistically difficult; and solar panels are flexible and expandable, but are the most expensive and are unsuited for some geographical conditions.

In my case, my need for electricity is pretty small: I have my little netbook laptop, which I charge every night; a small electric fan which I use on hot nights; my camera batteries, which I charge every few days; a couple of small LED “hockey puck” push-lights for the van interior, which run on AAA batteries that get recharged once a week or so; and my electric razor, which gets used each morning. In total, these add up to about 6 amps. So, running these for a total of four hours a day means I draw 24 amp-hours in a 24-hour period, meaning I require a minimum of 48 amp-hours of battery capacity to last me one day. My actual battery bank therefore consists of just a single 105 amp-hour marine battery. (I do have the option of expanding the system whenever necessary in the future by adding solar panels and batteries.)

So my electrical system consists of a single 100 watt solar panel on the roof, which runs inside to a charge controller that regulates the current to the battery. When the battery is low, the charge controller sends current from the solar panel to charge it; when the battery is full, the controller shuts off the flow of electricity. The battery in turn sends current to the inverter, which is where I can plug in my laptop, camera battery, etc, the same way as an electrical outlet at home. A full charge will give me about two days’ worth of typical electricity usage. In periods of cloudy weather, I can temporarily run the battery right down to the absolute minimum (only if I absolutely need to, though: deep-cycle batteries should not be discharged below 50% capacity) and get four days on a full charge. The only time this system has ever let me down is during the rare periods when it has been rainy and cloudy all week.
 
When the battery is low, the charge controller sends current from the solar panel to charge it; 

I give up.

Today I am unable to deal with less than accuracy.
 

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