Dog Trainers at RTR 2018?

[VagabondJeff]

I'm attending my first RTR with a new traveling companion and need a bit of help, please.

Manny is a 5 1/2 year old Australian Cattle Dog. He came home with me the day before New Year's Eve, from a shelter in Prescott Valley, AZ.

 It seems Manny had a pretty rough time of it before he and I met. They said when they took him off the street, he weighed less than 25 lbs. His left ear was almost totally bitten off. He also has arthritis. But then I figured, that I'm hard of hearing and have a touch of arthritis, too. So, maybe there's something we can learn from each other.

Manny has bonded quite well to me. He still gives lip in response to the occasional command, but even that has almost disappeared. The problem is that Manny has little to no social skills. He barks at everyone / anything that approaches and becomes extremely defensive. Even people that walk by at night cause him to start in on bad barking jags. He seems to have an easier time with women than men. But that observation is based on a small sample size. As far as other animals go, he is very possessive of me around other dogs. I don't think he knows how to play with other animals! I also think he still has a lot of fear in him. It almost seems like most of his actions are defensive in nature. But then, what do I know?

When he is alone with me, he has become quite sweet. Lots of face licks and begging for belly rubs. Someone has spent time training him. He knows sit, shake, stay, and sit up, and responds to phrases like take a walk or time to eat supper. So he's definitely trainable.

If there is anyone out there with dog training experience ... or who has experience working with shelter animals ... that could train me on what I need to do to help Manny, I would greatly appreciate your help.

I am already at RTR. I'm one block away from the main camp, just west of the handicap parking area. I'm in a little squaredrop trailer with a big green canopy hanging off the port side. Feel free to stop by or send me a PM  if you can lend a hand. Thanks in advance for anyone who can help.

 

[DuneElliot]

As a heeler he is always going to be protective of you and be a one-man dog...it's just the breed. Barking isn't unusual in the breed either...they are just very protective dogs.

Of course, as you suspect, he could definitely do with some work, but also understand the breed too.

 

[Headache]

The most important thing you need to remember is that breed of dog has a very high activity level. It will need some kind of "job" and definitely need a lot of exercise. Most disciplinary and behavior issues stem from a dog not being able to burn off that energy it has.

If you are open to it I'd like to observe you both together. I don't train anymore but I can give you some pointers and ideas that will help you with the anxiety he appears to have. Also, look into some herding facilities in your travels especially those that take in untrained rookies. They will definitely assist you in working with your dog and work within his natural abilities. One for example:

http://www.blueboniff.com/midwestherding/facilities.htm

Keep in mind that the herding skill is a modification of their natural prey drive, the modification is that they don't kill their prey, they round it up so you can. The facilities will be able to observe how your dog is with different animals. I knew someone whose Briards were fine around sheep but when it came to winged creatures you'd end up with goose for dinner.

 

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

During your travels you might have a chance to drop into "Dog Parks" in various cities. There are more of them than there used to be. You might find that your dog shows noticeable improvement playing with other dogs and people. I was pleasantly surprised how quickly my "problem" dog improved at the dog parks, and hope it works for you too!

 

[rvwandering]

Welcome to the CRVL forums VagabondJeff!

To help you learn the ins and outs of these forums, this "Tips & Tricks" post lists some helpful information to get you started. We look forward to hearing more from you.

 

[CautionToTheWind]

Temperament behavior should never lead ahead of the owner. In doing so, the dog will scan, seek and protect. Tight lead to your left side and you walking slightly ahead; you're the leader. Train when you stop, they sit. He will challenge your boundaries of command. Stick with it. Your tone of voice matters with training and rewarding.

 

[cyndi]

Cattle dogs that have a rough start or were never properly socialized may never recover. They forget nothing and revert quickly to old habits of defensiveness and avoidance. I'd find someone who knows the breed, specifically, to help.

What worked for my girl was sitting far enough away from uncomfortable situations that she didn't feel threatened. Reward her lack of response, reaction and interest with treats, toys and pats. Move slowly closer to the activity. Not too close and not too fast. Don't push it. Rinse and repeat.

At 12 Stella can fake being a normal, well socialized dog. It took about 5 years to get her there. I'll never trust her to not react aggressively in certain situations

 

[Stretch]

Awww, Manny's a cutie. 

Echoing what the others have said - a lot of this comes down to breed characteristics. My red heeler mix was rescued as part of an abandoned litter in New Mexico, when he was almost 5 months old. He was a nervous pee-er, afraid of absolutely everything (including grocery bags), very wary of strangers and almost instantly bonded to my son and I, his two people, his "safe places."

He's now 10, and while his nervousness has decreased, he still spends much of his time on high alert. It's what they were bred for. In their eyes, everything is a possible threat to their "herd." They are incredibly smart, as you've discovered, and can have truly impressive vocabularies. One thing that's helped is having him associate words with non-threats. He knows that "neighbors," "kids," "Grandma," and the names of several friends who come over occasionally are safe, and that he can relax (somewhat).

 

[DLTooley]

Rescue dogs with a bit of a past can be the best.

 

[Headache]

Tight lead to your left side and you walking slightly ahead; you're the leader.

You want to train a dog to walk next to you while you hold the lead relaxed and loosely.  You want to communicate calmness and trust, not tension. That doesn't mean the lead is laying in your hands barely being held.

 

[ReverendMother]

I think Cesar Milan's methods are quite effective, although I currently don't have a dog.  Here is is YouTube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDyz_T0uPt66D_b4kukhdDA

 

[cyndi]

^
Cesar Milan's methods will absolutely NOT work with a heeler. The breed was developed to be a problem-solving, independent thinker. You can't force them to do anything. They're partners.

Not going to get into a discussion about Milan's training methods. Do your research before employing his techniques on any dog. There IS a better way.

 

[ValerieP]

I worked with a trainer with my English Shepherd- she used positive re enforcement, treats. I have to be aware, but if I am, he no longer reacts to other dogs, unless they are off leash and run towards us barking. I’m still working on that. He will say hello to strangers if I say and come back when I say. He will sit, down, come- on or off leash. He is still ultra protective, but will stop on command. He’s a herder and a protector, I wholeheartedly recommend, treats and positive reinforcement. It’s working for us. I met with her 4 times.

 

[TomoMoto]

I have three dogs with very different temperaments that I can let your dog meet one at a time? My easiest dog is a very submissive 10-year-old hound.

 

[Captain Intrigue]

I'm at the rtr and have a similar problem. I have a blue heeler female and her border collie brother. Mine had a perfect upbringing and spoiled life but act exactly the way you described. Its the breed and has little to do with upbringing. I had to park far away from others here because my heeler will bark at any car or person within 80 feet and not stop until they're gone. The only thing I've found that helps is getting her lots of exercise to mellow her out. My dogs dislike guys but love young women so unfortunately I'm forced to remain hermit like at the rtr. I walk mine around a few times a day but lots of people have dogs off leash against camp rules, and if another dog aggressively comes towards my two they'll attack. Happened this evening unfortunately. So yea I feel your pain.

 

[StrayCat]

There was a lady named Jan at the meeting today, who said, she was a dog trainer.
You may want to try putting up a note on the bulletin board if you have not done so yet!
Hopefully you can connect

 

[Headache]

There is a young man here who is very experienced with training dogs. He and I spent a lot of time discussing the dogs at the RTR.  It was nice to have a kindred spirit and while his technical skills are far beyond mine he treated me as an equal.  

Regarding Cesar Milan what most people don't understand is that they become incensed because of his old tv show, not what appears to be his training methods.  His show was "reality tv" not reality.  The director, producers and editors used timers, creative editing and misleading dialogue to hook viewers,  all while misrepresenting training methods thousands of years old.  This as well as his divorce almost cost Milan his life.  

As soon as his contract with Nat Geo was up he negotiated a new one, new show and new direction.  He now holds the creative reins but hardly anyone watches because the sensationalism isn't there anymore.  That's fine by me.  I HATED the original but knowing how Hollywood works I figured it was only a matter of time. 

Anyway, his training methods, the real ones have been used by Indian people since ancient times and they still hold up today.  No gimmicks, no bribery, a lot of observing and patience.  You don't get to see that in a half hour tv show. Dogs are observed and training tailored to the dogs personality, not the cookie cutter BS I see most often today.  The way we train it is not necessary to be experienced with certain breeds because their particular breed traits show up under observation anyway.  The old ways are much more in tune with the individual dogs behavior and communicating WITH them not to them. 

OP I don't know if you are still reading this thread but I bounced off my suggestions and recommendations to observe you both to my new friend for his opinion and he was quite supportive.  Just to be sure there is no breed hang ups his dog is a border collie that is a service dog as well as agility trained.  It was also super awesome to meet someone who knew service dog law as well as I did.  Anyway the offer is still open if you are still in the area.

 

[AnonymousDog]

I'm curious if there is much demand for dog training at these gatherings and by Rvers in general. I was a handler and trainer of obedience/SAR/protection dogs and did it professionally for a lot years and looking at different options of making a buck when I make the jump to a nomadic life.

 

[DesertRose]

Hi Jeff, every dog is different, and I am so glad that your dog has a wonderful owner (you) who cares about handling him properly and giving him a better life. These are difficult issues but they are solvable or at least manageable.

My Katie is a Black Lab/Aussie Shepherd/Border Collie mix . Had her 7 years. She is almost 8. She is an alpha and used to jump 8 to 10 foot walls with ease which is likely how she became a stray. My solution was to take her to the dog park every single day to play and burn off energy and get socialized with other dogs, because she prefers humans.

My rescue Rusty was horribly abused but he lived in an outdoor no-kill rescue shelter for approximately 1-2 years with other dogs. As a result, he loves other dogs and has to be around them or he gets depressed. Very afraid of humans until recently. Over time (5 yrs) he now shows interest in humans, doesn't recoil when approached, will accept treats (when I approve), etc. The more I took him out (every single day) the more relaxed he became. It's taken about 3-5 yrs with noticeable improvement each year.

I frequent a dog park in Long Beach CA. There is a purebred Aussie who looks just like Manny. High energy, Barks, and Barks and Barks. She is aggressive, but not in an attack way. It's just her breed. She's constantly trying to herd all of the other dogs. The owner is vigilant and takes care of things before they escalate.

I agree with others above that the more you take Manny out and socialize him, the more he will adjust. You seem like the type of person who will make a sustained effort. It won't necessarily be easy though, and it may take a long time.

My Katie has been a "puller" for 7 long years. I have considered re-homing her about 2-3 times over the years, but she's my girl and I won't give up on her. I've been to trainers, classes, used various collars, harnesses and leashes. The only thing that has worked is the "Easy Walker" that goes over the snout. I rarely use it, but keep it handy. I don't recommend that for Manny because he has different issues. He would likely feel very insecure with that and act out even more. I'm just explaining what worked for me in my situation. As for her jumping on people, she hasn't quit that either, but she's gotten better about it. I don't allow people to allow her to jump on them. I explain that even though they don't mind, I do. I ask them not to allow the jumping.

Aussies are incredible dogs. I'd have a whole pack of them if I could. You and Manny are fortunate to have each other!