Demystifying the Urban Stealth Legend

[Minivanmotoman]

Lots of great info hear so far. Thank you all.
The Truck Camper Magazine articles made it all seem so easy and trouble free. As Duckwonder says, it's allot of work to hunt down a good city spot.
In summarizing that article, the factors to his success appear to be the following.
1. The person - His appearance, approach, choices, search methods and social abilities. Look good, speak well, talk to people to find spots and suggestions. Oh, and mentioning that you are exLEO goes a long way in opening doors and permissiveness. Does being an honorary member of the Keystone Cops count? Darn.
He seems to have a nose for it, uses one and done, else asks for a permissable location when extended stay. The one time I got a knock, asked the LEO if he knew anywhere, the answer? Nope.
2. His rig. Unique, recent, expensive, contractor box which screams long distance contractor on his way to a job site. He most get allot of passes on that alone.
How many of ours say the same thing instead of hijacker or homeless? Lol. The white commercial van, well, if not in a proper setting during commercial daylight hours, that no longer is valid or credible imho. How many times do you see the Sprinter or white commercial van in tourist, country areas with occupants (a couple) dressed from a hippie retreat? Cover blown, never going to get away with it there. In town, same.
3. Social interaction. The author isn't afraid to go looking and asking for spots that are permissible. Make himself known, develop report and trust, stay for a limited time and move on. That is a key approach to avoiding issues and problems. Move along soon enough.
4. Searching for and locating tolerant locations. Can be time consuming, uncertain and risky at times, time & travel limitations when it is late. Research online and in situ comes into play here.

Using stealth long term is not really doable except where it is allowed. Too many, becomes a problem and soon to be discouraged/ eliminated. Yet there are many claiming that they full time in cities anywhere and everywhere. Amazes me, their success. Tolerant mostly in that location seems to be the major factor.
So if you are full time, has to be a very big city and you move far and frequently. See YouTube videos. And those spots, tips and tricks, the Pros are keeping to themselves.

 

[user 37446]

My take for whatever it's worth...  I agree that LEO's know "what's up" with vans and will usually leave you alone unless you are violating an ordinance, they get a call or you are being just dumb about it.  I've seen enough YT videos about the dreaded "knock" to tell that its mostly location. One Florida beach type said he got frequent knocks due to his locale being too close to the million dollar homes.  Well duhh.  Same thing in S California.  

On the opposite extreme is "justincredible" who is a Vancouver BC resident in an obvious class B rv, he says he doesn't get bothered because he moves every 24 hours. 

I dont have much of a dog in this hunt due to being part time in a Prius. When I'm on the road, which is about 2-3 weeks every 6 months, I almost exclusively stay in motel parking lots because, well, a Prius kinda belongs there.
Now I'm not wanting to have a Prius for full time so this thread is of interest. Its author has been around a lot of places in his vanilla minivan, so he has some experience. I think a lot of it is just how you look and act.

 

[CityWoman]

Heya. I'm the one who posted the link in the stealth sticky to that article at Truck Camper Magazine. I had read it a few times and was impressed because I thought the guy who wrote it demonstrated that stealth isn't necessarily disguising oneself or hiding. A truck camper isn't the top choice for stealth, in the way many people think of stealth, but that guy travels to towns and cities as well as more remote places, and is successful in finding places to park and sleep with houses and businesses all around him. Some may argue that it's not really stealth if you ask for permission to park somewhere overnight, but if the end result is a safe place to sleep in your vehicle, what's more important - being righteous about what stealth is or having somewhere to sleep?

There was another thread on stealth recently, where someone said being stealthy just means one doesn't call attention to themselves. It seems to me that stealth depends not only on careful planning and not being disruptive, but also having confidence. It doesn't matter to me where someone's confidence comes from (ex-LEO or something else), but confidence seems to be a key element - from what I've read. Not bravado or overconfidence, of course, but just not being a Nervous Nelly.

Sometimes I do freelance work which requires me to do certain things covertly (nothing illegal), and I learned that I have to be confident or I won't succeed at the task. I'm not on the road yet, but knowing that my observation of how to accomplish the freelance work I do can translate into finding a safe park/sleep situation is good information for me to have, especially if I decide to do something crazy like buy a schoolie and paint it a wild color (I am also of the mind that white cargo vans aren't as unobtrusive as people think - plus they're boring. I've never painted the walls white in any place I've lived, so a white vehicle holds no appeal for me).

 

[John61CT]

Master your Jedi mind tricks.

These are not the campers you are looking for, Move Along!

 

[Minivanmotoman]

With the explosion of Instagram accounts and YouTube videos about converting vans and hitting the open road, this topic is now widely known. As more do it, stealth becomes harder to maintain successfully. Stealth mode now requires 22nd century cloaking mechanisms to be successful.
Appears that today, it's more about tolerant locations, low profile and not being noticed much publicly, and ones behaviors while doing so to help minimize impacts. Europe has parking areas and low cost municipal camping areas that cater to the traveler. This would be a good thing here.
Maybe Google and Facebook should be setting this up. Who's got connections here with Z or Page ?
Ferris, Ferris Bueller?

 

[CityWoman]

With the explosion of Instagram accounts and YouTube videos about converting vans and hitting the open road, this topic is now widely known. As more do it, stealth becomes harder to maintain successfully.

Oh, believe me, plenty of people out there are completely uninterested in Instagram, Pinterest, and YouTube, at least on the subject of vandwelling. It may seem prevalent or popular to you, but it's part of what you look for.

For most mainstream folks, the concept of living in a vehicle flies completely under their radar unless they happen to notice an obviously homeless person doing it. As long as one doesn't call attention on themselves and is careful of where they park, most passersby won't even notice. And yes, there are Park and Ride lots in this country which could be good options in some places.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

Thank you all for your input, it has clarified much in my mind. Just a recap of thoughts and aspects after review and consideration . In order of importance?

 1. Location, location, location. The old real estate adage applies here as well. Tolerated areas, found by luck or research. Required for long term success. It's not stealth if it's allowed or tolerated. 

2. Short term. One and done, ALLE. Feasible and probable, but not guaranteed. Risk vs reward probably, possibly good. Research increases success. Location may be less critical, but certain spots or areas more favorable, like low traffic, dead end, out of the way, vacant lots, parking areas. Stealth is feasible if here late tonight and gone early tomorrow. But more probably combined with tolerance.

3. Vehicle type and appearance. This perceived magical white cloak cure-all, might be in some situations. But other factors are more important on determining if you get the knock knock. Vehicle Age, type, condition. Painting it white doesn't make it invisible or blend in. White cargo vans that aren't usually in that spot stand out. Only a recent model car, parked in the street blends in. And even they get knock knocks, due to? Location tolerance.
All within reason of course.
 Being mostly a group of loners and introverts, we hope that painting it white, not bothering anybody, we can just arrive quietly, get a good night sleep and move on without anybody noticing or having to ask for permission. If only living in society, it were that simple. Not realistic unfortunately. The nosy extroverts are watching! Lol.
LEO at night have nothing better to do, mostly, high crime area/major urban areas not withstanding. 

4. Personal aspects. The last and least important aspect (short term, long term equally important to all others) until knock, knock, who's there? 
Then it becomes very important. Certain demographics, appearance, social skills are critical to avoid "hassle".


This has been a great exercise for me, and hopefully, many of you as well. The devil is in the details. Optimize them all, more success.

May the wind be always at your back, the sun on your face and the road rise up to meet you.

 

[BinDerSmokDat]

Has anyone tried train stations?
I have parked my personal vehicle at a localish light rail station for 10 days and caught the train to an airport.
Nobody bothered it.
The day cops will think it's someone working days.
The night cops will think it's someone working nights.

Another option how about paying for parking garage space at some larger trains stations?
There is absolutely no patroling done in the one near me as far as I can tell, and as they are catering to people who take the train, it's relatively cheap.

 

[John61CT]

Parking in many cities costs as much as S&B rents a few hours out of town.

 

[highdesertranger]

yeah that is what I was going to say. around here the parking fees will kill you, highdesertranger

 

[user 15857]

Parking lots at light rail stations here all have camera surveillance 24/7.  Someone loitering in the lot and sleeping there would be noticed and you would be ousted from the lot pretty quickly.

 

[deadwood]

I'm starting to realize that I don't worry about stealth as much as I used to. I try to use common sense when picking a spot and if it doesn't feel right I'll move on. For the most part as long as I'm on the street and there are no signs that say "no parking" then I'm good with it.

In the past I have used hotel parking lots or places like Cracker Barrel that are open 24hrs. But I really do not feel good parking in any parking lot because it us private property. My favorite place to park is on street parking where other people park their car as well. I don't want to be the only one and stand out.

But overall I'm finding that no one really cares what I do. I don't park on the street and open my door and start cooking. I keep a low profile. I try to be respectful. But in the beginning I think I was too paranoid about stealth. Yeah. I might get a knock one day telling me to move. But I think that is way more likely if I am in a private lot somewhere or parked where I really shouldn't be.

If I'm on the street in a legal spot then I don't think twice about and I don't think anyone else is either. My views on stealth parking have definitely changed since I went full time versus when I just traveled for fun on trips. Avoid parking lots because they are privately owned and may have security checking them and all is good.

Disclaimer: I do have a fall back that is pretty much perfect if I need it. I work at the airport and park in the employee lot. Some cars are parked for a day and some for a few days and commuters leave their cars their for months on end and it is normal. So my van can be there any time day or night for any amount of time and no one will think twice about it. Some days if I get off work late and don't want to drive to my normal area I'll just climb in and go to bed. I could probably stay there every night of the year and no one would take notice. But I don't want to be there all the time. I have plenty of good spots in town I would rather park at but I do feel fortunate to have the work parking lot if I ever need it.

 

[BinDerSmokDat]

So checked my light rail today.
Camera's on train platform only, none in lot.

Parking at the large regional commuter lot is $7 for 3-12 hours.
Not cheap but it gets you a night of hassle free sleeping and use of restroom.

Am I missing something as far as being rousted/loitering?
Isn't the idea you kind of do everything you need to do then pull in, go full stealth and mostly just sleep?
What attracts attention to you/your rig?

 

[deadwood]

So checked my light rail today.
Camera's on train platform only, none in lot.

Parking at the large regional commuter lot is $7 for 3-12 hours.
Not cheap but it gets you a night of hassle free sleeping and use of restroom.

Am I missing something as far as being rousted/loitering?
Isn't the idea you kind of do everything you need to do then pull in, go full stealth and mostly just sleep?
What attracts attention to you/your rig?

I don't see any problem paying to park somewhere for a short period if you don't have a better place. Free is always better but a safe spot might not always be available. If I were about to pay $12 to park I might check out some RV parks first. You might find a cheap one especially if you take a tent camping spot and not one with hookups. They'll still have a bathroom and you could set out chairs and cook outside if you wanted. Again, it might or might not even be available depending on where you are. 

As far as being stealth and pulling in and going to bed that's close to what I do. By the time I pull in somewhere everything I need to do has already been done before I parked there. I can crawl into bed and still watch a movie on my laptop and even have a light on because it is pretty much blacked out and I won't be seen. I just don't want to be up and moving around where it might be noticeable from outside..

 

[John61CT]

Change into PJs, get the bed ready, brush your teeth, everything ready.

Then drive to the spot, shut down into bed, go to sleep.

Very early morning up and away, do the necessaries elsewhere.

Vary the spot. IMO don't use a pay lot for sleeping stealth, more likely to be patrolled.

 

[BinDerSmokDat]

I may be over-hyped on the idea of a "plain white van" being the ultimate stealth vehicle.
I can see how in a suburban residential neighborhood it could stick out like a sore thumb.
In an urban residential area, less so because people do have vans for work and would be parking in area.
But I'm married to the idea and I've decided that I'm going to have no stickers, decals or even license plate frames on the vehicle to give anyone pause to take a second look.

But what about others who might use those things to their advantage?
How about a "baby on board" sign to blend in residential areas?
Or "soccer mom" or "Mom's taxi?"

Another thought was Boy Scout or Girl Scout sticker.
I saw a mini-van the other day with an "I'm proud of my Eagle Scout" and a small tasteful raised chrome cross emblem.
My first thought was "goody two-shoes" but reflecting on it now, it's damn near perfect vehicular camoflage.

I'm not saying a bumper sticker or decal is a,magic pill to make your vehicle invisible, but it's another layer of your game.
From what I gather vehicular dwelling is one part voodoo, one part rocket surgery and one part spy craft.
So your vehicle should tell a story beyond "clean, maintained, orderly interior."

Maybe have a collection of decals, stickers, window hangers that fit the need.
Parking a a Home Depot? "Pipefitters Local 306."
Parking in a residential area? Proud Parent Of an Honor Student at Crestville Elememtary."
Many times these things are available as magnets or magnet backing can be purchased and decals adhered to make a custom magnetic sign.

A van with "Soccer Mom" might not get a second look.
Just avoid things like Bob Marley stickers or anything drastically political.
You want you vehicle to tell a story at a glance and the story should be wholesome, benign and a story that nobody wants to read beyond the back of the book jacket.

 

[lenny flank]

I've decided that I'm going to have no stickers, decals or even license plate frames on the vehicle to give anyone pause to take a second look.

Plain is best. Anything that makes you our your vehicle noticeable, recognizable or easier to remember, is a bad idea. In stealth you have to be utterly anonymous, forgettable, and plain.

 

[user 37446]

Yes to the comment above. The key thing is to not be remembered. A magnetic sign that says anything is now rememberable. Body damage or a lot of rust, a visible solar panel, a bright color, primer paint, broken windshield, fancy mag wheels, home quality paint jobs, things carried on the front or rear bumpers... anything that would cause you to take a second look or mentally wonder "why is that there" or "that van is new" (new to here), is not good.

In my neighborhood there are no white cargo vans ever parked on the street after say 6 pm. So a white cargo seen on the street at 10 pm would be out of place. It could be as vanilla as possible, but if it "shouldn't be there" then it's rememberable. Just like a passenger van or minivan parked in a strip mall by box trucks - unlikely combination.

Probably the biggest no-no in my mind is any vehicle parked by a bank, credit union or other financial institution after hours... that would draw LEO attention for sure.

 

[lenny flank]

My only "memorable" detail is my solar panel on the roof. I can't do anything about that. But because the van sits so high, most people can't see it very well anyway and it looks like some sort of cargo rack. So I don't think it attracts the attention that a clearly visible solar panel would. (Though for sure the coppers know what it is, and likely most of the security dudes would know too if they are worth their salt.)

I'm probably not really as stealth as I'd like to think. But because I am quiet and inconspicuous and cause no trouble, I likely get unnoticed and ignored anyway.

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

I'm a weekend warrior, but I "stealth camped" in San Diego this weekend.

Around midnight or so I drove to a neighborhood near the Ocean Beach pier. Too close to the pier was a little sketchy with drunks walking the street, etc, so I drove a few blocks away from the shore. The neighborhood I found had cars parked all along every street - the typed of neighborhood with relatively small houses, dense population... San Diego is expensive so I'm guessing it was all muli-person families or people with roommates. I drove down a few blocks until I found a nice spot on a level street. It was along the side of a house vs the front, and it was an area where you can't exactly tell which car belongs to which house. As a bonus, this spot was behind a plumber's van and in front of a big pickup. Our E-350 slid right in.

As somebody with almost no stealth experience, it was really easy. We had a great night's sleep until we had an urgent need for a toilet at 6:30am... gotta work on that! We aren't the stealthiest - our van is extended and has a rack mounted on the hitch, plus a roof fan. But between midnight and 7am in an area with lots of cars on the street, I can't imagine anybody ever caring enough to give us a second look as long as we're quiet and you can't see our lights. Our RV fan on low can't really be heard from passers by.