Damaged battery-keep it?

[WalkaboutTed]

At this rate, I'm having a daily question. Thank you in advance for your help!

So today i received three of the batteries:

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Universal Power Group 45978 Sealed Lead Acid Battery (100AH AGM, 159$ each)[/font]


[font=Arial, sans-serif]I'm taking all the posted advice about destroying my first set of batteries, so that's why bought these cheapies.[/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif]A couple of hours after the UPS delivery, we opened them up.  Two of them look good. The third one appears to have been dropped at one time. One of the bottom corners is a little dented and squished. Not bad at all, but it's obvious that it has been dropped.[/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif]The question is, will this present a problem, or is it only cosmetic?[/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif]I've already emailed them, but I want to be able to give them an educated response if they tell me to live with it.[/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Ted[/font]

 

[highdesertranger]

I would be more concerned with the words to the left of the damage. highdesertranger

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Well, I don't know if that's encouraging about the damage. The batteries didn't get the worst reviews, and they sell them at Northern Arizona Wind and Sun, whom Bob W recommends, so they can't be all that bad.

Like I said, I'd rather destroy cheap batteries, hence the"Made in China" label.

 

[Wabbit]

Batteries do get banged around a lil bit, but saying that, hopefully they replace it.

 

[Ticklebellly]

Probably cosmetic. I would charge and use. If it fails, or leaks, in use, go for a replacement under warranty. You have already covered yourself by telling them it arrived with some obvious damage and you might save the hassle of packing up and sending off.

 

[SternWake]

Looks pretty minor.


What is the voltage on the batteries?  If two are at 12.8 and the damaged one is 10.6, then it likely has a shorted cell from the impact.

Charge it on a paper towell see if it gets wet.

If all 3 are nearly same voltage and paper towell stays dry, I'd not stress it.

Shipping damage is a risk on anything, and 65LB batteries are not the favorite thing delivery drivers deliver.

Not sure I could do the full size battery free shipping thing.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

I don't know, that UPS guy was pretty good looking and handled the batteries like a box of tissue. He can come back to my house anytime! Gotta love those shorts!

 

[MrNoodly]

You paid to get undamaged merchandise. Stand up for your customer rights. Have them make it good.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Okey Dokey,
This is the response I received from the seller of the battery:

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"Thank you for following up to provide the picture as requested. There shouldn't be any issues with the functionality of the battery. That being said, as there was damage during shipment, we are happy to do one of two things to correct this. First, if you would like to keep the battery, we would be happy to offer a 15% discount on the price of the battery (the 1 year warranty would still apply to the battery as well) or we can get a new battery shipped out to you along with a return label to send the current battery back to us. Please let us know what works best for you."

So, with your messages above, I checked the voltage and all three batteries were exactly the same. I then put it on my brand new -)came in yesterday) CTEK 25000 charger and the batteries all topped off with exactly the same time and behaviour. There was no leakage with the charger.

I'm okay now. As much eye candy the UPS driver is, there's no reason to waste energy and time (and the natural resources involved in the whole transaction) in order to send back a perfectly functional, if slightly blemished unit. So I'll take the 15% ($24) and the warranty. It's good that this is documented, in any case if there are sequelae to the battery injury.

Thanks to all for your input. I feel much better about my bruised A** (AGM).
Ted

 

[jimindenver]

You paid to get undamaged merchandise. Stand up for your customer rights. Have them make it good.

I agree with this. Then again as long as Ted is happy, willing to make the sacrifice of NOT seeing the UPS man and they are willing to make good should it go south.....

 

[SternWake]

I'd be content with 24$ off

If you put all three of those in parallel with good cabling, you could safely feed that bank 90 amps.

Gonna utilize the alternator?

 

[WalkaboutTed]

I have the CTEK d250s and the Smartpass, which will charge off the alternator. There are negatives to them, but for me, once I get it situated properly, this system will fit into my "set it and forget it" mindset. Along with the three batteries, we'll have 280 Watts rooftop solar and the renogy 100 watt suitcase. Hopefully, with it all set up, we'll do okay. Need that refrigerator!

The biggest thing I'll miss electronically is my Keurig coffee maker (800watts @ 120v). I can't see running that machine once a day, much less four times daily. I just hope we won't have to hook up to fully recharge too often. The more money we save from not paying for too much for campsites and such, the better for our long term financial future (when you have no retirement accounts, things look a little different). We're spending more more on the vehicle and set-up so we will spend less for however long we enjoy this stage of life.

 

[SternWake]

I have the CTEK d250s and the Smartpass, which will charge off the alternator.
-.-.-.
The biggest thing I'll miss electronically is my Keurig coffee maker (800watts @ 120v).  I can't see running that machine once a day, much less four times daily.

Is that Ctek limited to 20 alternator amps?

I brought up the 90 amp limit, as AGMs tend to like high recharge currents when depleted to 50%.  if you cycle these batteries deeply, often, they would prefer more current, upto that 90 amps.

They would like this even if you plug in for 3 days anyway.

AGMs can be tickled to a premature demise, with too little current applied each and every time, But an extended Absorption charge cycle can help mitigate this and extend their useful lifespan in your use.

Ideally, you would like to see yor Ctek hold 14.7ish until amps taper to ~1.5, before reverting to float voltage.

You can set it and forget it, but really if you have lots of sun, and your solar controller goes to float at 1 to 2pm, it is unlikely the batteries are really truly fully charged.



https://www.amazon.com/bayite-Digit...8&qid=1483689665&sr=8-3&keywords=bayite+meter


With AGMS full charge is determined by the amperage accepted at absorption voltage.

When it takes only 1.5 amps to maintain absorption voltage, only then can you consider the batteries fully charged.  So if you can program your solar controller, test amperage about the same time you would expect it to revert to float mode.  If it is still over 3 amps................unhappy battery. If it is less than 1.5 amps, happy battery.  The time it takes to taper from 3 amps to 1.5 amps can be ~2 hours.

This will change as the batteries age. So set it and forget, but occassionally step back in and perform some overseer duties.  Of you do not at some point your battery capacity will decline to the point it stress you and you start seeking to charge more for longer in a likely futile attempt to restore capacity.

however if you had put on your overseer pants earlier, and programmed solar controller ammeter in hand while watching the controller hold absorption voltage, that inevitable day of noticeable capacity loss, gets pushed  further and further away.

or you save up for new batteries then figure out how to take better care of them.

Premature float voltage kills batteries.  Ctek is well marketed, but the actual time it holds absorption voltage is key to your battery's life, and most every single  smart multi stage charger applied to a regularly deeply cycled battery, will NOT hold absorption Voltage for long enough.

So get an Ammeter.  watch voltage and amperage right about the time you expect the slar controller to drop from absorption voltage to float.

The Keurig, how long does it take that 800 watts before coffee is ready?  If it is like my friend's it takes a minute or less.  If so I'd not be afraid to run it a few times a day.  If it were 10 minutes several times a day, then no

800 watts at 12.2v with 85% inverter efficiency, is about a 75 amp load.

A 75 amp load on 300AH of healthy fully charged battery would reduce your total available capacity from 300, to 132 total amp hours, and would deplete them 100% completely, in 1 hour and 45 minutes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peukert's_law

to 50%  depletion it would take ~ 53 minutes running that Keurig continuously at 800 watts.

Presuming you start with 300 AH fully charged healthy batteries, you could run the coffee maker at 800 watts, for 53 total minutes before falling below 50%.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Whoa! You think I could make my coffee and drink it too? You've made me a very happy woman! Yeah, I know, it doesn't take too much to do that. I figured Peukart's law would mean I'd suck too much out of my batteries at once. The math thing is way beyond me. I stuck to a history major where the highest math class I was required to take was college algebra. I bribed my instructor with homemade bread and beer. Otherwise, I would have flunked.

I bought the lowest wattage Keurig type coffee maker I could find because I live in a barrio house with electricity that wasn't done to code (in fact, almost no plumbing, mechanical, construction or anything else is done to code here because historically, no one gets permits and nothing was inspected by anyone. If something"kinda" worked, that was good enough). Because of that, we're always blowing our 57 year old circuits when we have a semi- near capacity load on a circuit. The house is as old as me and, unlike me, is not aging gracefully. Forget about running even two small appliances at once in the entire kitchen. We can't even run the dishwasher with anything else. I've always lived in old houses with funky electricity, so watching wattage is second nature to me. The last time a "real" electrician was here, he was shocked (no, not that kind of shock) at how NOTHING is done to code.

You are right about the limit of 20 alternator amps with the d250s, but when you add in the Smartpass, it'll bring the charge current up to 80 alternator amps, if needed, and then titrate down as needed to complete the charge in up to five stages. That's one of the biggest advantage to that system. Our alternator is rated at 130 amps at 6000 rpm, but we'd never hit anywhere close to it. We drive like old farts. I don't know how much difference it'll make, but we do like to drive into town once or twice a week while camping, if only to get groceries and maybe go to a restaurant. A long hot shower about every two weeks is nice, too, so I figured we could get a leisurely charge then.

A nice thing about the Nissan NV is that it is a commercial vehicle with a stock marine battery with 80 AH (that's what they say). The vehicle has built in two 120v outlets with a 400 watt inverter. It also has two 12v outlets and two usb outlets. I figure that we could use the starter battery as a buffer if needed as that gets charged first with solar from the CTEK system. Couldn't use it with the coffee maker, though.

To me, the biggest negative of the CTEK system is that input Voc of solar panels is limited 23. But, my solar panels are 21voc, so that limitation is okay by me.

I bought the Bayite thingy, but it looked just a little too complicated for me, with my limited abilities, to install, and I sent it back.. Maybe I'll reassess. I just figured that keeping a real close eye on the voltage meters (I have a digital one on the starter battery too), along with the CTEK babysitting the rest would be somewhat adequate.

But, just like a starter husband, I can always trash these batteries and get a new set. As long as they're teachable. ;-)
Ted

 

[WalkaboutTed]

I found this, but since it's already bought and paid for, I'm kinda stuck.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Resolution:

"Order ID 102-3667144-6717843:
3 of Universal Power Group 45978 Sealed Lead Acid Battery [ASIN: B0044Z8DJW]

------------- Begin message -------------

Thank you for reaching out to us. We have gone ahead and issued the 15% discount to your account for the damage. If we can be of further assistance with your order, please let us know"

If only all of life's problems were fixed so easily. Thank you all for your help,
Ted