Cummins 4BT owners/ex-owners, step van heads- Need advice!

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pseudo

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So I'm going to see a 1977 Chevy step van with a 4BT this weekend (flying to the next state no less..). On paper at least, it's exactly what I've been looking for for a long time, other than its age which scares me a little. Mileage for the chassis and the motor are unknown. It was originally a Fritos delivery truck,then owned by a mobile mechanic and the current owner used it as a mobile metal shop but it's been mostly sitting for the past year and a half (but apparently started regularly). The only work the current owner has done on it is new starter and new tires approx 1.5 years ago, and an oil change when he first got it three years ago. No other maintenance history available..

I'm going to have it checked out by a mechanic over there before deciding to buy it and drive it back 600 miles, but I'm interested in any advice you guys have as to what I should be looking out for, questions I should ask with a chassis that old and a motor whose history is unknown.

Thanks :)

Pics of the van in question
 

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WoW that's a biggy. Not going to enter any races with that one. BULLET PROOF MOTOR. Pushing a lot of wind. Looks clean very important. I would worry less about the motor than other weak links. Diesel is coming down a bit paid 335 pg in Kansas.
 
Looks like a Grumman to ma.

These bodies are aluminum, (no rust, light weight), and unless it's been abused, it should last for many, many years.

Besides the engine and drivetrain, brakes, wheels and tires, make sure the mechanic checks out the steering system. All the ball joints and spindles should be checked thoroughly. These are basically the only moving parts on the whole rig.

Other then that, you should be good to go. How much $$$??

Good Luck!!!
 
If your taking it to a mechanic for review, he will know what to look for.... mechanically at least. You have to get some assurance that the truck runs well, without vibrations at speed. You should indicate that you want as much time spent on reviewing the condition of the FRAME from one end to the other and also the body for any corrosion issues.

While the body does not "rust", it can and does corrode, specifically where dissimilar metals have been required to meet. While companies like Grumman did a great job isolating dissimilar metals with plastic liners, over the years, those liners get squished out and slid out from between the metals. One area of focus should be where the body has been mounted to the frame.

Regards the Frame, you need to really look at what is left of it after it has been standing. Depending in where it was standing, it could have suffered a lot of damage from moisture that simply could not dry out. Study in particular, all mountings to the frame... suspension mounts, shock mounts, rear most portion of frame for thinning. Check the entire front suspension for rust problems. The front control arms often get thin over the years if it is an independent frt suspension.

If the frame is scaling, it does not necessarily mean it is beyond hope, but you will want to get under there with a needle scaler, knock off anything loose and get it protected with something to preserve it. I tend to coat it up with Fluid-Film rather than paint, because Fluid film will sneak into all the cracks whereas paint tends to just leave plenty of cracks and crevices for water to lay and cause rust.

Body wise, take a flashlight and study it from underneath as well as inside as best possible. Check the drivers floor area because it was often a steel pan and rusted considerably being in the drivers side wheel well. Look at all the door hardware, specifically the door sliding mechanisms. Rough rollers are replaceable, provided someone did not build too much inside because you need to slide the rails out the back of the cavity. Check for loose rivets up near the top edge all around the roof. Wind buffeting over the years sometimes caused those to fail.

BODY DAMAGE is also important. The aluminum used on these trucks is very difficult to straighten if bent up. Some replacement body parts are available, but expensive to purchase and replace. Look to see if the PO has put a few too many holes thru the body to mount things. Its totally unecessary to have done such, but it seems a lot of prior owners take the shortcut of drilling a hole in the body for any hook or wall they wanted to add. Fixing any holes requires someone to tig weld them shut, something a bit more pricey than just your average wireweld and grind repair.

The good news is practically everything you need to keep this truck on the road is not only available, but also affordable.... well, accept when it comes to diesel repair if you ever need it. That 4BT is an excellent engine if it is in good shape, but where you can buy a complete new Reman Small block Chevy 350 for $1500.... you'll spend that just repairing a turbo for one example. Diesel is only "Cheaper" when it comes to potential MPG's...... but only if its all running well.

The transmission is likely the bullet proof TH400 with a special adapter. Sure, you CAN break one, but it costs far, far less to rebuild than practically any other transmission.

1977 means you can get collector or hobby plates for the rascal as well. Love these old trucks if they are in good shape. They are really simple and easy to work on and You can keep them on the road forever with a little maintenance.
 
well grummy covered it pretty well. the 4bt is a great motor and can easily clock 500k if well taken care of. if it has a t400 trans that's a great trans you have to go up to an Alison to get a better auto trans. the only bummer is no overdrive. but one is available. let us know what happens. highdesertranger
 
Yup it's a Grumman Olson body. He's asking $4,500 for it.
Transmission is a 4 speed manual but he doesn't know which one.
Thank you all for the info, and grummy especially for the in depth reply!
I'll let you know how it goes..
 
well if it's a 4 speed stick it's either a sm465 or an nv 3500. let us know if you get it. highdesertranger
 
Mine is a 4 speed manual. I personally think they are better than the automatics.
 
I agree 66788. I have the sm465(4spd with granny low) cost is about 400 bucks to rebuild and it's bullet proof. the nickname for it is a rock crusher. not that you can put rocks in it but it's one tough trans. the only bummer is no overdrive. so I am turning about 3k rpm to go 60mph. needless to say a gear vendor od is in the future. highdesertranger
 
highdesertranger said:
I agree 66788. I have the sm465(4spd with granny low) cost is about 400 bucks to rebuild and it's bullet proof. the nickname for it is a rock crusher. not that you can put rocks in it but it's one tough trans. the only bummer is no overdrive. so I am turning about 3k rpm to go 60mph. needless to say a gear vendor od is in the future. highdesertranger

I didn't know you had a 4BT setup, that's great.

I looked at the Gear Vendor OD and decided to leave mine stock. I'm getting 17 mpg and it's going to be sitting more than on the road. Those overdrive units are costly. It would be nice if the granny gear in first was actually the ratio of second and the 4th gear was nearer to an overdrive. I don't think we will ever need the granny gear as our rigs are not loaded commercial vehicles.
 
I don't have a 4bt, I wish. I was just replying about a manual trans. I find the granny 1st gear quite useful, but I do a lot of off road driving, I hardly ever have to use 4wd between the granny and dual rear wheels I get excellent traction. 66788 did you know the inside of all gear vendor od's are the same. it's just the casing that is different. gear venders will do a rebuild and case swap for around 800 bucks(last time I checked). so if you find a used one it might be worth it. plus you can use them to split any gear. it's not just an od, turns a 4spd into a 8spd. this is great on a sm465 because there is a big gap between gear ratios. highdesertranger
 
Sorry I forgot to update y'all. I bought it! Love it! The drive home turned into a bit of a mission and ended up taking 4 days - It started overheating after less than a hundred miles. Realized the fan wasn't working so fixed that. Still overheating... The thermostat was also bad so changed that too and finally made it home.

I've cleaned it out nice and should start on the flooring this weekend.

There's a few things that need attention but overall it seems ok mechanically. I only got 10-12 mpg on the way home though..Was expecting more like 16-18. Any ideas?

It definitely needs a good tuneup, fluids changing, lube etc.
 
I may have a line on a GV, it's set for a Ford C6, but cheap enough at $1600 that you could get a mounting swap to about anything.

Corky
 
Glad you got the truck. I'm really pleased with mine.

The biggest killer of mileage and power with a diesel is air flow. Yours is turbocharged (4B= naturally aspirated, 4BT= turbo, 4BTA= turbo + after cooled), but make sure the air filter is clean. Also make sure the muffler is not packed with carbon and restricted. You can unhook the exhaust ahead of the muffler and take a drive to see if it runs better, or buy a cheap glass pack (straight through muffler) and put on there to try a mileage run. You might find a glass pack at a local auto wrecking yard for almost nothing. Hopefully it's something simple, you should be getting better mileage than that.
 
I have the same van but 1991 model GMC. 17 mpg at 55 mph,

I would strongly suggest a good strong steel rear bumper to protect your aluminum body. They are not easily fixed and a minor bump could total the vehicle.
 
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