Cool idea for that Homestead you're planning...

[SaltySeaWitch]

At least one man has a YouTube video of how he built his house so small, it falls BELOW what is covered by codes. I cannot recall the state, but he had property alongside his family's farm. I think he built a single-level home that was something like 10x12 or smaller -- his county considers that to be a shed (or such) and NO building codes apply.

If you are in an area where the state codes apply, this article says there are ways to have a tiny house with no problem:

http://www.tentcityurbanism.com/2014/09/navigating-minimum-square-footage.html

I can legally build a shed under 200 sq feet on my property with no permit or codes etc however, it is illegal for it to be used as a dwelling, or even to be slept in by an over night guest.

I would say to everyone to check your county codes and zoning as they are different place to place.

 

[masterplumber]

Sadly, I learned the same thing as "Salty Sea Witch".  Now, there are some places, 2 counties in KS and I have heard of some in AR, where they don't have such rules/codes/policies/laws.  I am aware of one in KS and we had lived there but in the city and they were working hard to change allowing people to do as they pleased with the land they owned.  What I learned was that they put the plumbers, roofers, builders, electricians, etc. on these county boards  making these decisions on what will be allowed.  I am faced with how to afford to live when I get older and in a "permanent" location, "conditions" can change rapidly.  I see so many people trapped in nice homes where it is no longer safe for them or taxes have doubled and eating them alive which forces them into stacked living facilities for "seniors".  Work all their lives to have the home and when they finally retire, it isn't a safe neighborhood anymore and/or they can't afford taxes and maintenance.  I think this is really contributing to the number of people on "wheels".  I was blown away looking for videos on "full-timing", people of all ages and all means..............  I knew a couple quite well that had a TT, traveled and lived around the US in it and then settled down in an RV park in their 80s where they lived their life out and they were so inspirational, loved to visit with anyone that had the time and they had awesome tales.  I actually had an elderly couple that I spent hours talking with also that had done something similar for about 20 years.  I couldn't get enough time with these individuals to hear their tales of adventure.

It's not the trades people on those boards for the most part. We're all to busy trying to scratch out a living like everyone else. It's the developers and their friends. More zoning rules equals more expensive homes which equals more profit for them. There are ways to have a tiny home legally, even in the county I live in which is one of the strictest anymore. And there are some counties that do allow building small structures, that can be lived in legally without any permits. The problem is, as SSW pointed out, is that they exist in very rural areas with little to know work available and no services for those with no income. That's actually not a bad thing if your life can fit in that narrow box, because that also means land prices and taxes are very low. But unfortunately few people have that freedom.

 

[towhee]

Masterplumber can you talk about how to have a tiny home legally in the county you live in or elsewhere?

I have come to the same conclusion as saltyseawitch for the county codes that I have read.

Nancy

 

[SaltySeaWitch]

Masterplumber can you talk about how to have a tiny home legally in the county you live in or elsewhere?  

I have come to the same conclusion as saltyseawitch for the county codes that I have read.

Nancy

If you are interested in TN towhee you can build without permits and pretty much whatever you want (for now) in Morgan County or Scott County (East Tennessee). Morgan County is very pretty and you can still find some deals on land if you look hard. No work in those areas though. Scott county you will probably need to drive to Knox County. Morgan County you can maybe find work in Cumberland County. Wages are low in TN and it is a different world if you are not from here. It is not for everyone. I believe TN ranks highest for crime and poverty these days.

 

[SoulRaven]

You do start to wonder if you really own the land or not when you learn about all the restrictions. I was looking at this 25 years ago. Gosh, can't believe it was that long ago. Currently, in Bourbon County, KS, they are very loose and the only restriction had to do with sewer issues. They had some issues with the Old Order Amish. Actually, tracking where the Old Order Amish are located might get someone a place with looser codes since they choose land with lesser restrictions. They have the advantage of not needing to travel for jobs.

 

[SaltySeaWitch]

Here is the town in Texas that is inviting tiny home dwellers to come there. They do make it clear there are no jobs there and you will need to have a way to support yourself. In the county, you can live off grid, if you live in the city/town I believe it is $500 for a permit (cannot be on wheels, must have a foundation) and you must connect to city utilities. It is an hour or more from a major city for work. They do encourage starting a business but again, you need customers. Would be perfect for someone who can work online or something. I plan to visit there when I hit the road just to check it out.

http://spurfreedom.org/

http://www.city-data.com/city/Spur-Texas.html

http://www.spurchamber.com/

 

[SaltySeaWitch]

You do start to wonder if you really own the land or not when you learn about all the restrictions.  I was looking at this 25 years ago.  Gosh, can't believe it was that long ago.  Currently, in Bourbon County, KS, they are very loose and the only restriction had to do with sewer issues.  They had some issues with the Old Order Amish.  Actually, tracking where the Old Order Amish are located might get someone a place with looser codes since they choose land with lesser restrictions.  They have the advantage of not needing to travel for jobs.

The job is always my problem Snow Gypsy. And if I travel for work I am not home to keep the grass cut (fines) and make sure I am not vandalized.

 I don't feel like I really own my place. It is very disheartening to have to get permission for everything you do and can be told no.

If I am not mistaken The Amish has some exceptions based on religion and if not, they would be able to fight laws in court (and probably win) based on it. Like you said, they have learned how to bloom where they are planted work wise. They are also part of a community that helps each other unlike most of us who buy a piece of land and would be on our own.

Also, those speaking about being being too old to drive/travel anymore makes me wonder how it is any different than a S&B. Who will mow the grass, repair/upkeep the house, and all the work that comes with home ownership? Yes, you can pay someone,, but it adds up fast. Perhaps why so many elderly give up homes and live in those little assisted living places. Could be cheaper to do a lower cost RV park, at least you have your own home in your RV/Van/Bus. Something to think about anyway.

 

[Sabatical]

I know it's been mentioned before elsewhere, but for the sake of conversation, the Escapee's have parks that folks can move into when they can no longer travel. I believe some assistance is also possible in these places.
http://www.escapeescare.org/

 

[B and C]

You do start to wonder if you really own the land or not when you learn about all the restrictions. 

You never own land.  You pay for the privilege to lease it from the government  :huh:  You may pay cash or take out a mortgage to pay for land, but when all is said and done, don't pay your taxes and the taxing authority will take it from you and "resell" it.

 

[SoulRaven]

The problem with Escapees, of which we are a member, is that it is expensive to buy in to the parks for people that come from certain parts of the US where they have had a lower cost of living and lower wages without several thousand dollars to invest in property and improvements. There are several "catches" in their system when you start looking closer. If one looks around, there are lots that can be bought for less money than what the Escapees offer usually in more rustic settings that are just for RVs and sometimes allow for a very small cabin.

 

[masterplumber]

One of the keys to building a tiny house legally is to build it on a trailer. If it's properly registered as a trailer or RV (varies from state to state) it falls under the jurisdiction of the DMV and the building department has no authority over it, no matter the use. You still have to deal with zoning however, as that is a totally separate issue. Generally zoning codes don't determine the square footage - that is in the building code. I say generally as local neighborhood covenants do fall under zoning, and they may say something. What I've discovered in my own neighborhood is that the covenants were not properly renewed, and now they have been expired so long that it would take a unanimous vote of the homeowners to reinstate them. The main zoning issue that needs to be worked around is that most places are not zoned for multi family. So it is technically illegal to rent out your main house and live in a tiny house. However, in my area there is no law saying I can't sleep in my own RV on my own property. Most of the "no camping " laws across the nation apply only to public lands and streets, not private land. So if I wanted I could build a tiny house on a trailer and park it in my back yard. Then I could let my grown son "camp" in it and if he wanted to contribute monetarily to the family, that would be our business, not zoning's.

The biggest thing is knowing what the laws actually say, not what some official says they say. I actually worked as an inspector for our local building department for 7 years. I was constantly correcting other inspectors when they'd make a call based upon what they wanted, not upon what the code actually said. Didn't make me real popular with the ones who had a god complex, but they are actually in the minority. Most building codes are purely about safety, and originally came about due to the Chicago fire. Some are politically motivated but those are usually driven by the unions trying to discredit methods and materials that save labor. The code for sqare footage is actually driven by homeowners, as they want to protect their investment. if someone builds a shack next to a McMansion it will decrease the value of said McMansion.

Generally codes are enforced on a complaint basis. If you keep a place nice, even if it's a van parked in the back yard. Are friendly with your neighbors. Don't park a bunch of vehicles all over the yard so it doesn't look like multiple families are living there. And all those other things that go along with being a good neighbor. You shouldn't have any problems. Of course that doesn't rule out a "Nosey Nelly" from complaining and putting a bug in your soup.

One last thing - I haven't seen it in the US, although I think it would be a possible approach to a a receptive city council. In Canada many places allow "alley way houses". These are typically small cottages off the alley in the back of a regular house. There doesn't seem to be any restriction as to it being a family member living in it, just that they are typically much smaller than the main house and designed for no more than 2 people.