Confused, need basic electrical help

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Do you think I should get a fuse block, and if so should I also fuse than to a main 80 fuse block?

If I can keep costs down I may be able to afford 2 of these walmart maxx deep cycles. Should I plan on hooking them up as a series or parallel?

Thanks again!

Electrical Engineers have a saying: "Any unfused circuit is simply a fire waiting to happen." Fuse everything. Fuse the output from the solar controller. Even the wire between the house and engine batteries needs to be fused - at both ends.

If you get two 12 volt batteries, wire them together in parallel. If you wired them in series, you'd have 24 volts. ( two 6 volt golf cart batteries would be wired together in series to give you a 12 volt system. )

Regards
John

 

[ccbreder]

Are you guys *sure* you can replace your engine battery with a marine battery and use it for both the starting battery AND house battery? This is the first time I have read of this and if this is correct, its brilliant. Saves having to have a house battery in the living area of the van and saves the hassle of building a box for the battery and venting it outside etc.

So uh.... this is 100% correct?

Bob touched on this above. There is a big if. DC needs are small, never leave DC on to discharge the battery below starting power, The marine battery will stand a bit more discharge than a starter battery and still be able to start the engine, if discharged will recover more times than a starter battery. Only if your DC needs are Small.

 

[cinemaphonic]

What would you guys recommend for a 3-stage charger when I have access to shore power?

I'm looking at the small battery tender one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CITK8S/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I'm hoping to have access to shore power often as I want to utilize Couch Surfing as a way to ask kind strangers to allow me to hook up to their electric for a night at a time.

 

[akrvbob]

Unity gain, with your very low electrical needs, you might be a candidate to only use your starting battery. At the least I would recommend carrying a jumper pack just in case! In fact, it might be all you need! Be sure to get one that will charge of your cigarette lighter and keep it charged while you drive.

I'd also switch to a marine battery as a starter battery whenever your current starting battery dies. Starting batteries have very low tolerance for discharges so just a few times and they will fail. A marine battery can take many more and yet start the van nearly as well.

Pay attention to the weather. A cold battery loses a lot of juice and even your small draw might push it over the edge.
Bob

 

[akrvbob]

I own and recommend this smart charger. It will jump your vehicle and charge up to 30 amps or down to a trickle.

http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SC-10030A-SpeedCharge-Automatic-Maintainer/dp/B001MYWBF0/
Bob

 

[cinemaphonic]

Electrical Engineers have a saying: "Any unfused circuit is simply a fire waiting to happen." Fuse everything. Fuse the output from the solar controller. Even the wire between the house and engine batteries needs to be fused - at both ends.

If you get two 12 volt batteries, wire them together in parallel. If you wired them in series, you'd have 24 volts. ( two 6 volt golf cart batteries would be wired together in series to give you a 12 volt system. )

Regards
John

would this work for multi-purpose inline fusing?

http://www.amazon.com/Automotive-Au...8&qid=1415827341&sr=8-15&keywords=inline+fuse

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Unity gain, with your very low electrical needs, you might be a candidate to only use your starting battery. At the least I would recommend carrying a jumper pack just in case! In fact, it might be all you need! Be sure to get one that will charge of your cigarette lighter and keep it charged while you drive.

I'd also switch to a marine battery as a starter battery whenever your current starting battery dies. Starting batteries have very low tolerance for discharges so just a few times and they will fail. A marine battery can take many more and yet start the van nearly as well.

Pay attention to the weather. A cold battery loses a lot of juice and even your small draw might push it over the edge.
Bob

Much appreciated. Thanks!

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New related question...

If my electrical needs are quite low would a small marine battery work? I probably would not be driving more than 20 minutes on average per day (maybe 8 or 10km total) and I'd be worried that amount of driving would not be enough to keep a full sized marine battery charged properly.

However, its logical that a smaller battery, outputting less electricity would require less driving to charge it. Correct?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

New related question...

If my electrical needs are quite low would a small marine battery work? I probably would not be driving more than 20 minutes on average per day (maybe 8 or 10km total) and I'd be worried that amount of driving would not be enough to keep a full sized marine battery charged properly.

However, its logical that a smaller battery, outputting less electricity would require less driving to charge it. Correct?

I'm afraid not.

Lets use an analogy. It doesn't matter whether your car has a 10 gallon gas tank or a 20 gallon gas tank. If you use 2 gallons of gas a day, you have to put 2 gallons back in to fill it up.

If you use 2 gallons a day, and only put 1 gallon a day back in, sooner or later you're going to run out of gas, regardless of what size gas tank you have.

The controlling factor here is how much electricity you pull out of your battery, not how big or small the battery is.

A bigger battery will leave you more margin for error than a smaller one will

Regards
John

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would this work for multi-purpose inline fusing?

http://www.amazon.com/Automotive-Au...8&qid=1415827341&sr=8-15&keywords=inline+fuse

They don't actually say what gauge the wire is on these. They are probably 14, or maybe 12 gauge, which us too thin for your main fuses. They would be ok for your lights, fantastic fan, etc. Probably ok for your laptop dc to dc power adapter, since those are intended to plug into a cigarette lighter socket, which are only designed for 10 amps max.

Search for "maxi fuse inline holder" and you'll get a number of similar holders built with 8 gauge wire, good for 60 amps. Use a few of these for your solar controller and engine battery to house battery hook ups.

Regards
John

 

[cinemaphonic]

Search for "maxi fuse inline holder" and you'll get a number of similar holders built with 8 gauge wire, good for 60 amps. Use a few of these for your solar controller and engine battery to house battery hook ups.

Regards
John

do i need in-line fusing if I use one of these?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000THQ0CQ...TF8&colid=2VB5Z5LLE4Y91&coliid=I3AHIDA5ILTBSJ

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

do i need in-line fusing if I use one of these?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000THQ0CQ...TF8&colid=2VB5Z5LLE4Y91&coliid=I3AHIDA5ILTBSJ

You would still need separate main fuses for your solar and battery to battery hook up, but that fuse block would make separate inline fuses unnecessary for all of your loads.

Regards
John

 

[cinemaphonic]

1) Go to Amazon and buy this continuous duty solenoid:
http://www.amazon.com/HERSEE-TERMINAL-CONTINUOUS-SOLENOID-24213BX/dp/B00FGJIJR6/

Would be possible to use something like this to route the Van's electric components (lights, stereo), to the house battery?

 

[akrvbob]

It would work, but why would you want to?

A much better idea is a fuse block.
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Blade-Block/dp/B001P6FTHC/

Bob

 

[cinemaphonic]

So far I got the solar panel in the mail. Bigger than I thought. Guess I should have measured. I was hoping I'd be able to avoid mounting by storing it in the van. My van has a fiberglass high top that is not perfectly flat. Do you think it's a good idea to install this, or should I try to return it and get the suitcase model?

 

[cinemaphonic]

Most people over-think this thing, confuse themselves, then they are paralyzed. If they can't know everything right now, they do nothing.

You don't want lithium batteries. The learning curve is a nightmare! Much too complicated for me and I couldn't help you at all if you did. Few people can.

Everything you need for solar is in the kit. Buy it, follow it's instructions, and you are done. When you get that far we'll lead you through the installation. The solar controller is the charger.

The solenoid will automatically disconnect the house and starting battery from each other when the ignition key is turned off. That keeps you from accidentally discharging your starting battery. When the key is turned on, it will automatically re-connect them so the house battery is charged.

Don't connect anything directly to the solar panel or controller. Everything should come off the battery.
Bob

Ok guys, I got everything I need (I think). Where should I start? I might hire a professional to install the solar panel because I'm worried I won't do it right and I'll get leaks. So where would you start?

 

[akrvbob]

Most RV dealers will do the install for you. Where are you located?
Bob

 

[ccbreder]

I have heard bad things about RV dealers install of solar panels. But I guess there is always at least one bad apple.

 

[cinemaphonic]

Most RV dealers will do the install for you. Where are you located?
Bob

I'm in Milwaukee. I was going to try this place out: http://www.hannarv.com/

They seem to have good reviews. I think I might go this route. I'd like to learn to do this stuff myself, but I really just don't want to screw it up. I'm trying to find someone in my area who I could pay to do it but who I could also assist and learn from. So far no one seems really qualified. That's kinda what you get when you use craigslist I guess.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I'm in Milwaukee. I was going to try this place out: http://www.hannarv.com/

They seem to have good reviews. I think I might go this route. I'd like to learn to do this stuff myself, but I really just don't want to screw it up. I'm trying to find someone in my area who I could pay to do it but who I could also assist and learn from. So far no one seems really qualified. That's kinda what you get when you use craigslist I guess.

An rv place may be way more familiar with fixing rv furnaces and plumbing than they are with installing solar power panels.

Here in NY, we've got something called BOCES - Board of Cooperative Educational Services. Essentially, it's a centralized vocational training facility that teaches automotive repair, welding, electronics servicing, and so on. There's one in each county, and each high school sends their voc track kids there for half of each school day.

The one in my county has a solar installers training program.

If you could find someplace near you that has a solar training program, maybe a community college?, you might be able to hire one or two of the students to work with you some weekend.

Regards
John

 

[cinemaphonic]

An rv place may be way more familiar with fixing rv furnaces and plumbing than they are with installing solar power panels.

Here in NY, we've got something called BOCES - Board of Cooperative Educational Services. Essentially, it's a centralized vocational training facility that teaches automotive repair, welding, electronics servicing, and so on. There's one in each county, and each high school sends their voc track kids there for half of each school day.

The one in my county has a solar installers training program.

If you could find someplace near you that has a solar training program, maybe a community college?, you might be able to hire one or two of the students to work with you some weekend.

Regards
John

Great idea, I'll give it a shot. Thanks John! You're always really helpful.

 

[cinemaphonic]

Hey guys. I'm planning on starting my house battery build next week, an dI could use some guidance here and there. I've been looking through a number of tutorials and diagrams.

Here's some questions I have before I round out my parts list and get started:

1. Someone suggested that I buy a maxi fuse block with 80 amp fuses. Now I can't remember why or who suggested it and I can't for the life of me find the post. I also have a 6 circuit fuse block and was wondering, am I supposed to wire the maxi fuse block between the 6 circuit block and the battery bank?

2. If constantly charging a battery is bad, how can I control this when the batteries will be hooked up to solar and solenoid for charging?
What keeps the house batteries from overcharging?

3. I've been told that I should fuse everything. What I'm having trouble with is figuring out which fuses to use where. I assume there is some general rule or chart, but I cant make heads or tails of it considering all the wiring that is about to take place. On the other side of the question, what size wire should I use? Everyone seems to have a better option, but the general consensus seems to suggest that thicker gauge is better. Is that true across the board?

For example what kind of fuses should I use for the solenoid lines? Do I need to fuse grounds?
What about fusing the line between the 100w solar panel and the battery?

4. This is really dumb question, but I've just never done it: I realize I'm going to have to drill into my van to mount the solenoid, and drill a hole in the firewall to feed a wire from the solenoid to the house batteries inside the van--how to I figure out if I've found a safe area to drill, and do I need to seal around these holes and wires will sealant to prevent rusting/leaking? This is the part that is scaring me the most.

Parts I have:

2 group 29 deep cycle batteries.

6 circuit fuse block for appliances with assorted fuses

continuous duty solenoid

Maxi fuse block with 80 Amp fuses (this one I'm confused about. someone somewhere suggested that I buy this and I can't find the resource now. from what I remember they said to install this between the 6 circuit breaker and the house batteries. is that right?)

basic tool kit, wire cutter and crimper, and crimp on terminals.

Parts I need:
Wire.


Thanks guys. I'm still swimming in a sea of confusion, I've never dealt with wiring before and the idea of screwing up and waking up to a fire in the van has me double stressed.

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I just ran across this on another forum:

"Also, when choosing a fuse, remember that in a DC circuit, using a fuse too close to the expected current load will in effect create a bottleneck in the current (resistance point), which can stress the electrical system, possibly leading to damage to the battery or other sensitive components. "

This goes against other things I've read which seem to suggest that your wiring should be as short as possible. Or am I not reading this correctly?

---

I know I'm probably getting annoying, but I guess you can disregard all of this. I just found a really good car stereo install place with good rates near me and I think I'm just going to go to them. The guy sound like he knows what he's doing and will be able to do it pretty cheaply.

Although I'd really like to learn how to do this myself, it's quite cold here in Milwaukee and without a heated garage I can just see a whole world of pain coming if I try to do it myself. I'll probably be asking for some tips on maintenance, etc in the near future. Thanks everyone, you've been great.