Cheap Chinese LifeP04 batteries?

[ldsreliance]

This is what happens when you get a Grade B battery with a cheap BMS. They perform perfectly at first (same as a premium battery with Grade A cells and top notch BMS). But over time, the cells will drift apart because the tolerances were off to begin with. And the BMS will have a harder and harder time balancing and keeping it together.

If you get 1000 cycles out of that battery I would be shocked.

 

[BigT]

This is what happens when you get a Grade B battery with a cheap BMS.  They perform perfectly at first (same as a premium battery with Grade A cells and top notch BMS).  But over time, the cells will drift apart because the tolerances were off to begin with. 

If you get 1000 cycles out of that battery I would be shocked.

Actually, this issue happened right out of the box.  And yes, I know it's the price you pay for being too cheap. 
I knew going in that there was a good chance the battery would be crap, but the $900, American made, alternative was just too expensive for my intended purpose:  Running a trolling motor on a small, cheap, plastic sailboat.

As seldom as I use the battery/motor (less than 48 times a year), 1000 cycles will still last 20 years.  

 

[ldsreliance]

Hey, I don't blame you. It is a tempting price. I'm more speaking in generalities and hoping others will listen and understand the tradeoff. I read a lot of threads on this forum and a lot of people seem to think that a $400 Ebay or Amazon battery is comparable to other options. It isn't. They are apples and oranges, even though you can't see it in the marketing info.

Carry on

 

[Camper]

I recently bought two Lithium's..... now I wish I'd bought two new AGM's instead, and kept all that money.

 

[BigT]

Actually, this issue happened right out of the box.  And yes, I know it's the price you pay for being too cheap. 

Hey, I don't blame you.  It is a tempting price. 

I stand corrected.  It appears that it's not the battery after all, but the charger that was the issue.  

I just received my NOCO Genius-10 tonight, and it works just as it should when charging the $400, 100 Amp/Hr. LiFeP04 I got from Amazon.  
The Genius-5 does just fine when charging my AGM battery, but for some reason, it doesn't want to work with the lithium battery.  

I'm not sure why this is, but I'm to have the issue sorted out.  I wanted a higher Amp charger anyway.

 

[frater secessus]

This is what happens when you get a Grade B battery with a cheap BMS.

Alternative view: this is what happens when you charge at too high a voltage.

One can charge to 100% SoC at lower voltages (like 13.6v - 13.8v) and the cells will tend to stay very balanced. It's much easier to stay in balance than to correct an unbalance, given the trivially-low passive balancing current in most BMS.

 

[PeterPiper]

I've decided to buy more cheap Walmart batteries. Why fix what ain't broke! lol. Tried communicating with the Chinese battery sellers which was too difficult.

Ya know,
Flooded lead acid batteries were THE standard for a LONG LONG time and everyone used them.
I have both, LiFEPO4 batteries and FLA batteries from Walmart.

The large Marine deep cycle Walmart FLA batteries are a bit heavier and don't have near the power density of the LiFePO4's but they are also a lot easier to work with. Hard as I try, my LiFePO4 packs just don't seem to stay well balanced. They're VERY delicate imo and one mistake with a tiny over or undercharge can turn them into useless Puffer Fish. God help you if your BMS fails.

Cost wise, 100Ah in FLA costs about $250. The same Ah in LiFePO4 costs about $400.

I use LiFePO4 mainly for travel power and FLA for at home solar power.
The Lithium battery market is in flux imo and you can get some really poor quality stuff. Maybe now is a good time to wait and let the market settle itself out.

So if you go with Walmart FLA batteries I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[CapnGimp]

I recently bought two Lithium's..... now I wish I'd bought two new AGM's instead, and kept all that money.

I am looking at getting one or a pair...researched and still hesitant to throw money at a possible cheap batt. What have you disliked about them so far? I am FROM east TN (Newport) and moved to the desert here in 2018, off grid.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

Will Prowse has a few videos where he talks about building your own batteries from scratch.
I wish I'd found his channel before I built my current Renogy electrical system.
My Renogy stuff works great. But I could have saved a lot of money if I'd done it the way Will does.

 

[frater secessus]

I am looking at getting one or a pair...researched and still hesitant to throw money at a possible cheap batt.

I'd watch battery teardowns from Will or others to see how well the battery in question is built, and how it tests out. Some are impressive, some are shoddy. Here is his recommendation list for inexpensive drop-ins.

If you are interested in DIY, see this subforum over on DIY Solar.

 

[frater secessus]

Will is not perfect but he is well-informed and willing to call out manufacturers on product issues. Which they often address. He lives in a house now but spent many years living in an RV like the folks here.

Unless something has changed recently he does not make money from the manufacturers. He makes money from afflinks, as is disclosed on his sites and on every video he uploads. Example:

Prowse Publications LLC (www.mobile-solarpower.com) is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
I make a commission for sales made through affiliate links posted on this website.

That's hardly a "slip".​

 

[Calaverasgrande]

I put Will Prowse in the same category as Dave Jones or Kai Man Wong.
They are Youtubers with enough subscribers that it's worth it for manufacturers to send them stuff out of the blue in hopes that a mere mention will get a few dozen hits on the website.
They are also not shy about calling out brands that are selling junk. Or even good brands that cheap out on basic stuff.
For instance, I was all ready to drop dough on a Victron charger simply based on how many times I see Victron stuff in Youtube vids about van builds.
But Will Prowse rightly pointed out that they use the same rinky dink cable termination that the cheap brands do. That really soured me on Victron.

 

[hugemoth]

Lead acid, AGM, lithium compared in detail with real data by an engineer.

 

[DLTooley]

Prowse’s DIY Solar Forum is also a good resource, there as with anything else, don’t suspend your own judgement.

 

[rvwandering]

I deleted a bunch of back and forth bickering posts.
Some posts may have been deleted because they were in the middle of the bickering but not part of it. I'm sorry if any points that members were making were deleted because of this. Please repost but avoid any posts denigrating any person or groups of people.

 

[[email protected]]

I just received some 230 ah lithium batteries from Amy on DIY forums person that was highly rated. they are just a slight bit higher than ordering from ali express to get shipped from china, but you get NEW grade A cells that are tested, matched and balanced before you get them..

If you read on the DIYforums.com site you see a lot of batteries that are cheap are cheap.. the are swollen, under the listed AH shown and not the best.. I got 4 cells for $450 buck with shipping from the warehouse in Tx..

http://www.powerwholesale.net/usa-w...8.html?zenid=88137bdafcebde45aeb30dcacfff7f06

 

[GntlStone]

I just received some 230 ah lithium batteries from Amy on DIY forums person that was highly rated. they are just a slight bit higher than ordering from ali express to get shipped from china, but you get NEW grade A cells that are tested, matched and balanced before you get them..

If you read on the DIYforums.com site you see a lot of batteries that are cheap are cheap.. the are swollen, under the listed AH shown and not the best.. I got 4 cells for $450 buck with shipping from the warehouse in Tx..

http://www.powerwholesale.net/usa-w...8.html?zenid=88137bdafcebde45aeb30dcacfff7f06

I've hear good things of Amy's cells in reading the forum over there. I also read alot of horror stories of people trying to buy direct from the AliBaba/AliExpress marketplaces, tales of vaporware batteries or worse.

Are those the cells you recieved?
Are they slightly bloated or is it just a bad picture?

I appreciate the high quality solid bars they seem to ship with.

I'd love to build my own battery and charging system, just nervous as a total noob to electric work.

Could you syart a thread of your own about your battery build so I/we can see how and why it's done?