Bitcoin anyone?

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Once the BC is mined, when the company sells it it is out there in circulation, the tiny energy used in the transaction tracking/verifying computations are distributed across the whole network.

If you're that concerned about issues of environmental waste of currency, join these guys

http://www.retirethepenny.org/

And consider the energy costs of securely transporting and storing physical cash across the world economy.
 
John61CT said:
Once the BC is mined, when the company sells it it is out there in circulation, the tiny energy used in the transaction tracking/verifying computations are distributed across the whole network.

If you're that concerned about issues of environmental waste of currency, join these guys

http://www.retirethepenny.org/

And consider the energy costs of securely transporting and storing physical cash across the world economy.

You probably know a lot more about crypto than I do but I thought the verifying and transaction tracking which is the block chain *was* the mining part?   They are not just mining the coins out of the ground right?  They verify the block chain by running complicated math and this uses a ton of power.   When all bitcoins have been doled out to the miners, how will the blockchain continue to be verified for new transactions?
 
The more you guys argue, the less I understand.  Miners? Block chain? Mining gear? Algorithms?   This is all geek code to me.  How can digits in a random code be worth anything?
 
GotSmart said:
The more you guys argue, the less I understand.  Miners? Block chain? Mining gear? Algorithms?   This is all geek code to me.  How can digits in a random code be worth anything?

They really are not.   It is a lot like the chain letter of old where you put $1 in five envelopes and mail them to the top five names on a list, replacing one of the names on the new list with yours or something like that.  The people who made a ton on bitcoin mailed out the early letters and the people who come in near the end will be the suckers.  We may not be at the end yet however, so there is still money to be made.
 
So I am not as dumb as the next guy.  I only spend on things that are tangible, like cell service.   ;)

PT Barnum was right.  :D
 
So if you actually want to educate yourself, https://www.google.com/search?q=basics+OR+101+bitcoin+blockchain

If you're not interested, then just avoid the thread, ignore the whole phenomenon, no problem if you're already old and set in your ways.

You may not live to see gene editing, VR, artificial intelligence and self-driving cars take over our lives and wipe out millions of jobs either.

But if you're young and want / need to try to not become dependent on living from the elite's table scraps, it might be worth paying attention.
 
> The people who made a ton on bitcoin mailed out the early letters and the people who come in near the end will be the suckers.  We may not be at the end yet however, so there is still money to be made.

Bitcoin itself may well crash and burn, but the underlying blockchain tech it pioneered will permeate the tech and financial systems very quickly.
 
> How can digits in a random code be worth anything?

How can stamped discs made of an arbitrary metal? Or bits of color printed paper?

What ultimately gives a government its rights? Or a religion its power?

All rest on a critical mass of influential people agreeing to grant a belief social legitimacy.

It's memes all the way down. . .
 
It seems like nothing new at all.   Same old, just different packageing.   :rolleyes:
 
John61CT said:
So if you actually want to educate yourself, https://www.google.com/search?q=basics+OR+101+bitcoin+blockchain

If you're not interested, then just avoid the thread, ignore the whole phenomenon, no problem if you're already old and set in your ways.

You may not live to see gene editing, VR, artificial intelligence and self-driving cars take over our lives and wipe out millions of jobs either.

But if you're young and want / need to try to not become dependent on living from the elite's table scraps, it might be worth paying attention.
So, tell us how you really feel about the older folk here?
 
Not meant to be disparaging, I'm old myself.

I just happen to enjoy keeping up with tech stuff even that (I think) I'm not going to be able to put to practical use. Like working on my sixth language with my third crop of kids. . .

Also making the point that relatively secure retirees are **entirely right** to be blasé about stuff in which they have no interest, while younger hungry folk need to keep up just to avoid falling into third-world conditions.

The way things are going, IMO only the top 20-30% income earners are going to have any chance at comfort and security in coming decades.

Not a good time to train as a truck driver. . .
 
Allow me to shift your perspective a little. BitCoin was an attempt by some very smart computer guys to give the masses a chance. Comparing it to a pyramid scheme is significantly incorrect and suggests, if you want to understand, you should do more googling.

Bitcoin came into existence via a group of CyberPunks. CyberPunks were a movement in the early 80's. Lets understand part of this world in a very brief way. Books have been written on these topics. The British punk movement spread to North America. At the same time the personal computer thing was happening and cool. So all the cool kids were listening to Rotten, and playing on computers. But computers were expensive and records cost money. My 128K memory card was massive and 300 bucks!!! Software was even more expensive. Worse, it changed based on platform upgrades and cost you even more money. The punk movement was about rebellion and so with the Sub Humans and DOA screaming out of the speakers the punks figured out how to work around the issues they found. HACKING! This wasn't about getting into the CIA it was about getting my x device or controller to work with the computer. We met in BBS forums using 900BAUD speed modems and then met in person. We had music, technology, and a rebellious desire to change the world. 1 USD = 1.1944 CAD and it took 2.366 USD to buy one British Pound.
 
At around the same time major US universities were launching huge into the computer movement. A computer degree was generally awarded in Philosophy of Machine Thought. Or some such thing as the industries and institution were struggling with the explosion. Fortran was the language and assembler the system. Shoe Boxes of punch cards, created dot matrix pictures of the Star Trek bridge or allowed you to play Lunar Lander, or Dungeon. Old cradle style telephones plugged into typewriter looking terminals and connected to university mainframes all over the globe. Without any oversight...The birth of another No Such Agency might be attributed to the intelligence failure that resulted in the Horror of Pearl Harbour but they really didn't do too much, budget or actions, until 1980 and the intercepts that preceded pounding Libya.

The Punk music craze was going strong and the West Coast, Vancouver to San Deigo, was the driving force. Jello Biafra was running for political office in a clown suit and the CyberPunks were getting arrested for hacking. Always a few bad apples. Information security and anonymity became important and discussed more and more. Stories circulated about men in black showing up and grabbing programmers and hardware. Private coffee shop meetings, discussed only online, were hit and everyone arrested. Or so the stories went. I was in the military at this time and more worried about getting killed. But, around this time the group CypherPunk was born in San Fran.

The ideology of the group was just expanded from the original Cyberpunk. It was freedom and protection from those that wanted to oppress open and free source development and security of the intrawebs. Remember the actual internet didn't begin till 1983. CypherPunk, as a group came into being around 1986. The ideology changed as much as the famous Monty Python Skit "The popular peoples front...the peoples popular front..." But a British National, from a wealthy banking family, that graduated from UBC with an undergrad degree was there.

He understood, or believed, (depending on your point of view) that money and the control of money allowed empires and corporations to farm people like they might farm land. He wrote a few papers on the topic back in the mid 80's. You can find them if you are good at doing research. But you'd have to go to a library, and use the real method of researching. For the very reasons these CypherPunks were trying to protect us from. Search Spain and then watch the Google Ads change...Like a picture on my FB page and see the same. Oh, but you use the private browser feature so all is ok!! Sorry that boat has sailed, sunk, and the surviors have had grandkids.

While Satoshi Nakamoto is the guy that reportedly created BitCoin it has surpassed him. This Japanese name is a pen name. He uses Canadian spelling and didn't do it for the money or some pryimid scheme. He was a rich angy British Punk rocker geek, that wanted to create a foundation outside of the established "THEY THEM" to control wealth.  Today 1 Bit Coin buys 4,484.30 USD or 5,608.97 CAD or buys 3,494.62 British pounds. 

It is not a conspiracy theory that all currencies are controlled and manipulated it is just naive to believe only X country does and Y country doesn't. BitCoin has been volitile, just as was the first gold coin minted with a king's head. You couldn't buy a sword with the King's coin either as it wasn't accepted in every realm. The idea was to place an open source currency into circulation. Like Linus Torvald's Linux operating system. The world's corporations, like the evil empire Micro Soft, see open source as free. But for developers, and forward thinkers, it is about better. If the source is open it can be adapted and made better for the users and the trickle down is everybody is better off. Areoflot uses Linux for their on board entertainment system. It is the most secure. The Russians know a thing or two about secure systems. 

So applied to Bitcoin the CypherPunk mailing list was gone and replaced by a multinode system. It reached out to a very large group of alike minded individuals. Individuals that would have understood the currency, technology and shared at least in part the dogma. Individuals that today would be very, very rich. The trickle down effect has been better. Perhaps not convenient or earth shattering Happy Place yet, but it has only been a few years.
 
If every form of currency is unique to prevent counterfeiting then what makes the Bitcoin special other than the amount of computer time it takes to make it? I was approached a long time ago by a friend wanting to buy the computer and time to make them but failed to understand and still fail to understand how it would not possible at some point to produce them for less than they are valued.
 
Ten firms in China do the vast majority of current mining.
 
We don't even know the founder's nationality, much less her identity.

Nationality isn't just irrelevant here, in fact these trends make borders seem just silly.

And such trends move so quickly they expose the fact there's no way slow-moving bureaucracies can figure things out quickly enough to respond, and then only do so to protect their own interests and that of the financial industry elite, so-called "public" interest is revealed to be not even on the radar.

Lots of the LEOs supposed to be tracking down BCs use for dark web drug transactions put more effort into trying to steal them, and in most cases got away with it scot free.

Stuff straight out of 80's sci fi, William Gibson and Neal Stephenson were always among my favorite authors, very prescient.

And lots more to come, rate of change continues to accelerate. . .
 
frater secessus said:
Cyberpunks != cypherpunks.  :)  Otherwise spot on.

You missed the evolution part. 

Punks from the music culture

Became Cyberpunks; Punk rockers with computers

Became CypherPunks the SanFran org with the newsletter. 

One begot the other bigot, but I can't write first testament stuff. Him and I have an understanding.  :D :)
 
Originally phone phreaking, kids selling black boxes to get free long distance.

Mine was actually blue. . .
 
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