Battery source dries up.

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wagoneer

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We have a battery recycler here in SF and through my telling people what a great deal it was AI/ high rise tower staircase emergency AGM bats never used just constantl
charged and tested once a year swapped out after 3 years for code reasons 50 bucks each. Been 0 and just when I needed some. Get the feeling I cut my own source off. Perhaps you all have a similar opportunity in your neck of the woods. These are going to be essentially brand new.
 
I believe you are talking about what I call telco batteries. I see them on craigslist a lot but never at that good of a deal. Hopefully it won't be too long before the recycler gets some more in.
 
Yup, we've got them up here in BC too. Just bought a coupla bigass ones for $110 CDN a pop. ..Willy.
 
She's happy with her rig and somewhere around Quartzite AFAIK. ..Willy.
 
Are Telco batteries the same thing as cell phone tower batteries? I'm interested at looking into those and have seen them online for around $150 for about the same amp hours. Don't know much about them though as I'm just learning about solar.
 
That is correct. There are lots of them on craigslist here is all shapes and sizes. Occasionally you can find them brand new with a price to match but usually they are used. They are AGM but don't have some of the features of the high end AGM's. Those features can't be taken advantage of often making the telco's nearly as good for much less money.
 
Interesting.  Technically, new batteries, but with a DOM (Date of Manufacture) of 2013.  Sitting on a pallet  somewhere for 3 to 4 years, without being recharged since manufactured.  Have to wonder how long they will last if you put them in service.
 
From what I understand once inspected, refilled and recharged, and if the plates didn't corrode they should last almost the amount of time as new which would be about 10 years if they were brand new, so about 7 years?  That's asking a lot for something that should have been charged within 4 months of being built.  Of course YMMV being we don't know what kind of warehouse environment they've sat in all those years.

The company is only a few years old and they deal in used and refurbished(they do the refurbishing) towers and equipment.  Most likely they are using the same batteries in the towers, shelters and cabinets they build and refurbished but either they are decent people or just haven't been around long enough to develop a good or bad relationship yet.

Here's more info about the batteries from some other sources for you sparky geeks out there.  My mind goes numb when math is involved:

http://mediaserver.voxtechnologies....n-frontterminal-155-datasheet-12549649031.pdf
http://www.exide.com/Media/files/Downloads/IndustEuro/Marathon_M_FT_en.pdf
http://www.uppi-ups.com/Exide GNB Marathon, Sprinter, SUNlyteinstruction and opertor Manual.pdf
http://gnb-battery.industrialpartner.com/products-m/m12v155ft.htm

All I have is something like this to compare it to at 97 lbs and over $400:

http://www.solarpanelstore.com/solar-power/batteries/sun_xtender_batteries_12v/1530t/info/1.html

So you armchair scientists and electrical engineers have some new data to play with.  I claim ignorance!   :angel:
 
Telcos also use lead-acid. I've seen rooms full of 2v cells, filled with gallons of acid. This is in a central office, where they get regular maintenance and last decades. Theses are not useful in an RV.
 
According to the manufacturer these particular batteries are VRLA batteries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery


A VRLA battery (valve-regulated lead-acid battery), more commonly known as a sealed lead-acid (SLA), gel cell, or maintenance free battery, is a type of lead-acid rechargeable battery. Due to their construction, the Gel and AGM types of VRLA can be mounted in any orientation, and do not require constant maintenance.


I could be mistaken but they are described very similarly to what we can buy in the solar stores.  I have to admit that my knowledge of them is more towards a home solar set up but I would like to know if they are not suitable for RVs, why.  My interest in them is price and the large amount of storage since my solar set up will be a minimum of 600 watts.
 
These Telecom AGM batteries generally have both + and - posts on the same side of the battery, as opposed to opposite ends which makes locating and wiring them much easier when there a couple dozen powering a cell phone tower in the case of a power outage.

They seem to come in surplus acid, and acid starved versions, and I am not sure the benefits/detractions of this either way.

Some have been reported to not be able to accept high amperage rates. One 150AH 100LB version I know of is said to require only ~22 amps to nearly instantly reach 14.5v when 50% depleted. This is a very low absorption limit, and the battery would also likely exhibit a lot of voltage drop under high amp loads, such as powering a microwave through a high wattage inverter.

As a comparison I own a 68LB 90AH capacity AGM battery and it can accept 65 amps for ~25 minutes before voltage rises to 14.4v.

One really has no idea how these tellycom batteries were treated in storage, or how many times they were cycled when they were the backup UPS system in a cell phone tower. They could be an awesome deal and give great service to an RV dweller, or be no better a deal than any other AGM, and there is the chance one is buying a sulfated battery that has only 60% of original capacity remaining. There is no way to tell, visually, one way or the other. And believing the claims of the seller is rarely wise.

One would need to test the perfomance of the battery, and this is done my monitoring voltage and amperage acceptance and the time during charging, and voltage and AH consumed during discharge. Meaning having the measuring tools, and the desire to observe them throughout the charge/discharge cycles to get an idea of the battery's remaining capacity.

Without this one is effectively either trusting the seller and or rolling the dice, or just ringing the 'just fine' bell having no idea one way or the other.

If I were to acquire one of these( say 155AH capacity) I'd discharge it to 12.2v, recharge it at 40 amps until 14.4v was reached and hold 14.4v until amps tapered to 0.75a. I'd record how long it accepted 40 amps before voltage reached 14.4v for future reference, and how long it took for amps to taper to 0.5% of capacity at 14.4v at 77f

If it took 8 hours for amps to taper to 0.75 when held at 14.4v, I'd be less thrilled than if it took 4 hours.

I'd then discharge it again, to ~12.1v, noting voltage at certain times during discharge for AH removed, then do the 40 amp until 14.4v recharge thing again and then hold 14.4v to see how long it took amps to now taper to 0.75.

I bet after the second recharge cycle it would show some improvement in capacity ( higher voltage held for the same AH removed)and it would take less time for amps to taper to 0.75a at 14.4v. If they were abused, the possibility of some capacity recovery is pretty good, if one can hold absorption voltage for long enough and perhaps even go a bit higher monitoring it closely for rising temperature.

Please look at Lifelines 'conditioning' procedure on page 20:
http://lifelinebatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/manual.pdf

And do note they are the only AGM manufacturer that recommends this. That is not to say it cannot be safely done to other brands with the proper human monitoring of the procedure with the correct tools ans knowledge to do so



Even if it performed poorly and was obviously nowhere near its 150AH capacity rating, I bet it would still deliver pretty good service for a while, but personally I would want a new fresh battery so I knew it was recharged properly and not overdischarged regularly.

These Tellycom batteries have not been employed in RV duty for very long yet, so we do not know how they will perform in such duty, longterm.

They could be an very good battery, or marginal, and one will not know either way until it is asked to perform, and can then see how it performs, and for how long.

They do seem to be VERY heavy, for their rated capacity, and this usually is a very good thing in a deep cycle lead acid battery, unless there is only one battery, and it is asked to power very high loads for a while via an inverter, by itself.

In such a scenario the voltage would drop fast and might have the low voltage alarm on the inverter screaming all too quickly, even if the battery is still 90% charged.

So they are a roll of the dice until we get some longevity reports by those who understand their loads, and the number of total cycles the batteries delivered, and who had recharged them correctly during their life powering an RV.
 
Thank you SternWake! Not only for the large amount of information but making it understandable as well!

I've known of these types of batteries being used quite often on home solar power system but not elsewhere, mostly they were bought used. As you mentioned the one thing I automatically liked about them was where the posts are located. They are also "thin" so they could be hidden quite easily next to wheel wells and other assorted nooks and crannies in a van as well as stood up.

Unless someone else does it I am open to being a guinea pig for an experiment. I have an old 100 watt(probably does about 70 now) folding panel that could be set up(if that would be enough for doing something like this) but I'd have to work with an electrician/someone who knows what they are doing to get set up. I'll be down in AZ sometime in December.
 

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