Battery/Solar Question

[Unca_T]

Hey y'all-

I picked up some other solar stuff from a buddy, and have been testing it out.
One panel, two lead acid trojans, an mppt charge controller and various other stuff. He
didn't want it so I thought I'd see if I couldn't work it into what I already have.


I had to fill the batteries (2 - 6volts) as they were low, and have been charging them on the porch.
It's ventilated. Well, today in Minnesota the sun is out and I can hear the batteries bubbling.
Is that suppose to happen? Should I take them off the charger and figure out what's going wrong?
Is it wrong?

Thanks
T.

 

[tx2sturgis]

A small amount of bubbling is normal sometimes. Depends on a few things.

But if this is violent. aggressive, bubbling that you can easily hear 6 feet away, then no, that's not normal.

 

[Unca_T]

A small amount of bubbling is normal sometimes. Depends on a few things.

But if this is violent. aggressive, bubbling that you can easily hear 6 feet away, then no, that's not normal.

Thank you. I'm thinking that these two batteries I got are finished. He had them resting on his basement
concrete floor, and wasn't keeping it charged. Today, they went up to 92% and then down to 52% with no
load at all except the inverter which was off.
Oh well.
Thanks again.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Yep...sounds like they are history. 

But still usable as 'core return' on new batteries...

 

[Unca_T]

Yep...sounds like they are history. 

But still usable as 'core return' on new batteries...

Truth. I wonder can you use different brand name batteries together? I don't see why not. I mean if they are the same type and AM amount it should be cool huh?

 

[tx2sturgis]

If parallel 12v then yes, you can. Not ideal, but it works. 

If series 6 volt then I would avoid mismatched batteries.

 

[John61CT]

The bank's performance and longevity usually closely matches that of the weakest link.

Best to use the same model, and even check they have the same mfg date.

If spending a lot in person, the seller should even allow you to pull out your DMM and pull units with closely matching voltages.

You could well get an extra few hundred cycles' extra lifetime by starting off with a well-balanced set.

Assuming you break the bank in properly, equalize regularly etc, otherwise take good care of them.

 

[breeze]

Thank you. I'm thinking that these two batteries I got are finished. He had them resting on his basement
concrete floor, and wasn't keeping it charged. Today, they went up to 92% and then down to 52% with no
load at all except the inverter which was off.
Oh well.
Thanks again.

Concrete floors kills batteries FAST! An experienced battery tech can tell you that at a big car repair house (like used to be Sears Auto.) 

Used batteries have negative value imo. You can get trade in value only if you buy another one at a 150% markup (IF you have a receipt.) Most battery houses charge you for taking your old battery. But that's just my experience (along with getting battery acid in cuts on my hands.) I let professionals handle my batteries with a 500 repetition learning curve already. The Lead-acid batteries are the heaviest ones of all too, so you get a good workout in the bargain ;-)

That's what I can't understand, is why anyone would have over 500 lbs. of leaky lead acid batteries banging around on their van. But that may be a cost they don't fully realize in their cost-benefit analysis. When I busted tires back in the day, it was bad: but at least it was not working around heavy leaky acid batteries. That acid makes big holes in your pants, clothing, and in all the clothes in your washing machine (i hope you use a public laundry mat  Good luck!

 

[tripper]

I have one old marine/deep cycle Costco battery that was bad, consistently dropped to 11v quickly. I put on a 10 watt solar panel and let it bake for 5 weeks, adding water as needed, the battery came back to life and works fine.

 

[Weight]

A long time ago, batteries had tared wooden cases, then open top bakelite cases sealed with pitch. They would damage concrete floors by seeping acid. Maybe, discharge some, do to moisture across the battery top between terminals. This developed into "old mechanics wives tales" perpetrated by those with not enough knowledge. But, today's batteries do not have problems sitting on a concrete floor. Just keep the tops clean.
Now, stop charging those shitted batteries before one shorts and you have big problems. Get new batteries, avoid 'Used' lead acid batteries.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Just 'sitting' on a concrete floor is harmless.

But:

For flooded lead acid batteries, and long term static storage on a cold concrete surface, such as during a long winter up north, can cause the electrolyte fluid to 'stratify' and the battery loses capacity over time. 

Flooded batteries are much happier if the battery 'juice' gets jostled around a bit now and then.

 

[highdesertranger]

yep sitting on concrete does nothing to batteries. now sitting there for a year without charging, that's different. highdesertranger

 

[John61CT]

Flooded batteries are much happier if the battery 'juice' gets jostled around a bit now and then.

As in, from getting well charged to Full (hold absorb until endAmps) at least once a month.

I suppose that may be a point against even a sophisticated tiny-amp float charger sitting on the bank just keeping it at Full all the time.

 

[tx2sturgis]

As in, from getting well charged to Full (hold absorb until endAmps) at least once a month.

That, and physical agitation from equalization, OR actual physical agitation of the electrolyte, from the batteries being moved about, ie: jostling them.

In static, non-moving, home-based, off-grid, flooded battery banks, since they can't be (or aren't) moved around, this is one of the main reasons to equalize, which gets the fluid circulating.

 

[John61CT]

My FLAs get plenty of movement from regular endAmps-Full charging (to .005C)

Do you think stored-full (no loads) banks not getting cycled should still get equalized?

I only recommend that for batts in use.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Do you think stored-full (no loads) banks not getting cycled should still get equalized?

Whatever it takes to keep the electrolyte in an FLA battery from stratification.

It won't generally happen in a vehicle, since it moves the battery around. 

But stored, non-moving, flooded batteries can and do 'settle' with varying levels of dilution of the electrolyte from top to bottom, if they are not equalized or...you know....jostled. 

That's why my choice for static, non-moving batteries, in permanent 'float' at repeater sites, emergency backups, and em-comm stations are ALWAYS AGM batteries. They don't do that.

 

[John61CT]

OK, so maybe "charge to endAmps, check for bubbling. If not, then increase voltage until bubbling, if needed do a full equalize as per mfg protocol"

 

[tx2sturgis]

Of course, equalization of flooded batteries does two things:

Stir the fluids,

and hopefully, 

Match the finished voltage of each cell to each other as close as possible. It's a maintenance cycle.

 

[John61CT]

Of course, equalization of flooded batteries does two things:

Stir the fluids,

and hopefully, 

Match the finished voltage of each cell to each other as close as possible. It's a maintenance cycle.

Yes, and one I only use for banks in active cycling service since I see the stirring from my regular charging.

In storage-only, should be no imbalance issues, nor sulfation, the other (third) preventative reason for regular equalization while in use.

 

[Weight]

Sitting on a concrete floor or a hardwood floor or a metal shelf would make no difference in stratification of the electrolyte. I don't think even that is a problem with a battery in storage. The only thing to be concerned is loss of charge. Cold is better that hot to preserve a battery. Insure the battery is fully charged before disconnecting the cables. It will be good for a season of rest. In the far north freezing would be a problem, but the experts are there to deal with that kind of cold.