Battery Desulfaters ? For SternWake

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Battery desulfaters question for SternWake

Most desulfator's are variations of the Alstair Couper circuit. I noticed on amazon you can purchase one starting at 25$ and the next one at 35$ and so on to above 100$ or so.

They work by pulsing a 55-60 volt current into the battery for millisecond. This pulse breaks up and dislodges the sulfate deposits on the lead plates which block the electrolyte. And drives the sulfate back into solution in the electrolyte.

My question to Sternwake; do you have any experience with this and what is your opinion?
 
My experience with the respected Batteryminder 12248 was not not different than if I had applied a regular charger for the same amount of time. I was not so militant about taking specific gravity readings then, all I can say is that after leaving it on for a week, I could detect no change in voltage held under load for the same amp hours removed.

I've certainly read the reviews by those who claim to have restored useless batteries to 'like new' performance, but My experience says otherwise.

I'm sure any efficacy depends on the battery condition. My battery might just have shedded plate material and no amount of pulse desulfation is going to restore plate material that has fallen to the bottom of the cells.

Perhaps on a battery which has been chronically undercharged and left in that state for a period of time, this pulse desulfation might indeed restore the hardened sulfate back into the electrolyte.

Whether it would do it better than an equalization charge would, is certainly arguable, and would need unbiased scientific testing, and relying on the manufacturer's claims is unwise, as there is no truth in marketing and no consequence for outright false claims.

The batteryminder 12248 I used was a friend's. He bought his to restore some badly neglected, unused but shelved for years batteries, and it did not work. I tried it on more than one set of my batteries that took a nose dive in performance, and despite really wanting and expecting to see a change, I did not, and was battery shopping soon after.

It is a good 2/4/or 8 amp charger, but unless you have days to plug in so that such a slow rate is beneficial and effective , I think money is better spent on a larger amp charger.

A charging source that can take a flooded battery to 16V, when the operator chooses to do so for a true equalization, is probably where money should be spent instead. Not many charging sources can do this. I have to reprogram my solar controller for this, and 6 to 7 amps are required, after a regular "full" charge cycle, to bring the battery upto and hold it at 16 volts.

Figure 5 to 6 amps needed for every 100 amp hours of capacity to achieve 16v.

Only initiate 16v after the battery has been held at regular absorption voltage for 2 to 2.5 hours. You do not want the charging source to bring the battery upto 16v until after the battery has had time to absorb the charge at 14.5+ ABSV

16v should not be done too often either. it is hard on the battery. but it is a requirement every so often on daily cycled flooded batteries, and more important on batteries that rarely get to spend ~2.5 hours plus at ABSV every recharge cycle.

Figure once a month for an EQ when cycling daily. I do my USbattery group 31 every 15 cycles or so, but will go as long as 30 cycles, and performance after an EQ is notably better, in terms of voltage held under load overnight.

Proper battery charging should make these magic and questionably effective pulse chargers, unneeded, but they might have some merit on batteries slowly discharged and left discharged for an extended period of time.
 
I agree. Not sure it's anymore than snake oil.

I have a very old charger, say 30-40 years old that my dad used that is a battery boiler. It should be good for desulfating although the amperage you will need is probably not there. I'll have to check it and see if it's usable and the amperage I can get out of it.

Thanks for the quick reply.

It's amazing what's believed out there. There's epsan salt as an additive or outright replacement. I noticed on a couple of videos where people were putting the batteries on wood so it didn't touch the concrete. That's an old wives tale. My roommate in college took his battery out of his car and put it on the concrete floor of a buddy's shop floor for two weeks just to debunk that myth. Put the battery back in his car and it cranked right up.

What probably started that tale was back in the day when batteries weren't using plastic cases and placed on a concrete floor and also had a crack in the case electrolysis would ground the battery to the concrete and discharge it. Hence the myth. At least that's what I heard of or read.
 
The concrete myth is base on fact when the cases were made of asphalt.

One thing to note is that putting a battery on a cool concrete floor can increase acid stratification, where the stronger acid sinks to the bottom of the plates and eats them away faster.

So while it will not discharge a battery, a little thermal insulation between cold concrete and battery bottom is beneficial to some degree.

Battery boilers are usually manual chargers which have no voltage regulation, they need to be monitored. When they are not , they 'boil off' the electrolyte, although the electrolyte is technically not boiling. if it did reach the temperature where it did indeed boil, no human could be in the same airspace.

Sulfuric acid Mist is a known carcinogen. Google it.
 
Stern, let me just say thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge with us folks.
 
In the old days of automotive maintenance, during the depression, it was quite common to give a battery a "fast charge". This being a very high voltage/ampere charge bringing the solution to a rollicking bubble. Timed for about an hour. Batteries were expensive, and worse, rationed during the war. We charged a buck for this, = 4 gallon gasoline.
 
In regards to the pulse desulfation, a former battery engineer I correspond with claims that it is actually damaging.

I just made a USA telephone call to a "respected" flooded battery OEM. Had a nice chat. Was interested to hear a consensus is building in OEM, AGAINST the use of ripple oriented charging. Seems as though OEM has re-discovered what I concluded more than 20 years ago - ripple (so called pulse desulfation) does far more damage than good. Like magnesium or cadmium sulfate additives it attacks viable plate material and has minimal impact on latticed PbS04.

APPARENT gains in voltage is caused by DAMAGE to good plates. Viable active plate material is softened, destroying it's longevity. Softening increases permeability by H2SO4. This is a BOGUS apparent increase because softened plate material yields higher energy TEMPORARILY. The cost? Plate stripping. What a specific? EXCESSIVE ELECTROLYTIC EROSION

Doesn't it seem like the newest latest and greatest is eventually found to be the opposite?

Look at all the pharmaceuticals out there, and a few years later there are massive tort suits because of the long term effects/ damage they cause. Who profits/benefits? The purveyors of original product, and lawyers. Who gets hurt? everybody else who believed the original claims.

Newest latest and greatest seems to equate to 'willing paying Guinea pig'
 
yeah, I have seen those you tube vids with the Epsom salt. but I saw it on the internet, so it must be true. ha ha ha. highdesertranger
 
I really appreciate thoroughly considered investigation. I'll probably have to run both Honda generators to get that 5 to 6 amp/100AH and attempt to adjust the voltage output up. To save a buck, I canceled the PC interface adapter for the new CC, did order that RTS:

SternWake said:

"Figure 5 to 6 amps needed for every 100 amp hours of capacity to achieve 16v.

Only initiate 16v after the battery has been held at regular absorption voltage for 2 to 2.5 hours. You do not want the charging source to bring the battery upto 16v until after the battery has had time to absorb the charge at 14.5+ ABSV

16v should not be done too often either. it is hard on the battery. but it is a requirement every so often on daily cycled flooded batteries, and more important on batteries that rarely get to spend ~2.5 hours plus at ABSV every recharge cycle.

Figure once a month for an EQ when cycling daily. I do my USbattery group 31 every 15 cycles or so, but will go as long as 30 cycles, and performance after an EQ is notably better, in terms of voltage held under load overnight."
 
I am confused. The Honda should be run through a 120 volt battery charger. Even one 1000W Honda will provide many amps.
 
I was vague. I'm using 2 older Honda EM500's that produce 8.3 amps each at 12vdc directly (without a battery charger). Yes, you are correct, I could run a battery charger and only one generator, it's just that I'm pinching pennies right now to have enough funds, meager as they, are to build the rig. Up very late last night finishing the plumbing. The system no longer needs an electric pump to deliver 75 gallons. This is important as one may not be able to use an electric pump. For example, water was not purged from the system properly one winter and the pump froze and was broken. It also requires 4 amps to run. It is important to be able to do essential tasks without electricity.

Being able to use adjust the setting on one's charge controller is the best way to duplicate SternWake's recommendations. One day I'll have to buy the cable to do this, but I'll have to happy to have the RTS for now.



ccbreder said:
I am confused. The Honda should be run through a 120 volt battery charger. Even one 1000W Honda will provide many amps.
 
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