Back to the shop...again

[VanKitten]

So, here is the story...

I broke down just past Green River yesterday in the early afternoon.  
I called GoodSams (my roadside). They claimed there was no tow company within 100 miles that could handle a rig my size. (This is total garbage...at just 21 ft...everyone can handle this......the truth is that no one would do it for the price GoodSams would pay...remind me to find a better roadside.... these folks are supposed to handle RVs...and this is a little one!)

So, GoodSams calls me back and tells me to call 911. No kidding.
UTah highway patrol finds a tow company all the way over in Selina ..they want $1000 CASH to tow BUT, they would only take me to their facility in Selina! I could have ended up stranded in freezing temp there! I want them to tow me to Green River....nope...they need lots of extra money to do that! But, in Green River I could have had a friend come and get me and the kitten.  
That was all they found. Again..total garbage

I called the tow company I used before over in Grand Junction...they agreed to come and bring me all the way back to GJ for $850. So..back to Simpsons garage. Got back late last night.

My friend in GJ is letting me stay on the couch once again.

So..this morning....went to Simpsons. What they found....the hose for the transmission to the radiator to cool the fluid was totally split! It was labeled explicitly for propane! No kidding. The jerk in N. Carolina (shop in Sanford) that put in the new radiator put this in! This was never going to hold...the temps far exceed what that hose could handle

Most of the problems I have encountered has been the sloppy workmanship of so called professionals. Who does that? Knowing what was going to happen....where is honesty and pride of work gone?

So...now back to the same problem I was having in August. This is not the transmission.  
This is the engine cutting out. Just a little at first, then more and more...till I cannot even get up to 25 mph. Finally dies.  

There is all of the following installed NEW in the last 9 months.....
Water pump, upper fuel pump, lower fuel pump, fuel line, radiator, all new hoses, A/C compressor and all new hose lines, new transmission, new manifold, new heads (all of them) new ignition switch, new ignition control module, new distributor, new master computer, new alternator, new ignition coils

Not to mention new breaks..rotors, pads, master cylinder, fluid and break line. New shocks and struts, new d-link, new control arms, new bushings, new exhaust, new muffler.. Let me add here...there is no cat-converter. I learned this a couple months ago...it must have been removed sometime before I bought it in Florida. As there is no inspection, I never put a new on in.....for more then $1,000...I simply could not afford it.

The only thing I can think of that isnt new....gas tank and bottom of engine.

So..I think that old gas tank is the problem. I wonder if there is lots of "junk" and sludge that clogs the pump filter and causes this.. How might I figure out if this is happening?

Anyone else have an idea?

 

[highdesertranger]

if that was the case you could just change the filter and be good until the next time it plugged up. one thing this is not an internal engine problem. without me being there it's really hard to put my finger on it. please forgive me but I don't remember what drive train is in this RV? highdesertranger

 

[VanKitten]

I do not know the answer to that. It is an E350. 460 engine.

The pump in the tank has a filter on it. It was replaced back in Mid Sept. so, in keeping with your thinking...this may be why the problem "appeared" to be solved....that is..until the new pump/filter clogged. ??

 

[tx2sturgis]

Dang.

 

[bullfrog]

Roamingcat with the trans cooler hose split did you loose transmission fluid or was it just the outer layer of hose split. When you say you broke down are you referring to cutting out and not able to go above 25MPH until the motor died? Ignition spark can easily be checked with a timing light and primary power with a test light. A fuel pressure gauge can allow you to see fuel delivery problems as it will go low or flutter. I have on some older vehicles installed these so I can observe them from the driver's seat when looking for intermittent problems. If power source is a possible problem I make a temporary harness so I can get back to the shop. If fuel delivery problem a boat tank with electric pump and a splice I can plumb easily with a power source. I have gone so far as to install multiple fuel and electrical systems that I could easily switch over to keep from being stranded. It doesn't take too many $1,000 tows to justify these measures. Would the engine not restart after it died? Gumout Carb Cleaner burns better than gasoline. Spraying it into the intake manifold can identify a lack of fuel problem. At this point to identify the problem or problems should be the main focus. Anything you can do to help will be worth the effort as mechanic's time is costly.

 

[highdesertranger]

and the year?
well whoever changed the in tank pump should have looked into the tank to see if there was a problem with the tank.
highdesertranger

 

[VanKitten]

It is a 1988

The in-tank pump was done by the same guy that did the propane hose instead of one for transmission fluid. I have not found the shop name in my mountain of paper work...but he is in Sanford, NC.

 

[highdesertranger]

so it's a Ford drive train. I suspect the ignition control module, I know you already changed it. make sure they are using high quality replacement parts. if they are using cheap junk parts you are no better off then before they were changed. BTW has anybody thought about hooking a fuel pressure gauge up so you can see what it's doing when it starts acting up? highdesertranger

 

[user 37446]

That is insane. A 21' class c is just a 21' van with a little overhang. Any 1.5 ton (F450) wrecker could pull that thing. Crew cab 1 ton dually pickups are that long or longer. I had a 22' 1982 class C so I know...

I'd be calling up bad Sam corporate and screaming bloody murder about this. They claim to be an RV tow insurance/roadside insurance company and I know from the RV forums many people with 40 foot diesel pushers have Good Sam.  You need to pursue this if you have the stomach for it.

I'm so sorry that you got taken by the parts replacers who are not mechanics, and by the cheapskates who throw on any old thing just to get you out the door knowing that you wont be back.

I'm not enough of a shade tree mechanic to help you however back in the day it was always spark, points or fuel that caused issues like you describe. Spark (loose bad wiring) doesn't sound correct, neither does a bad ground. Points probably isn't it as that year 460 was fuel injected, wait, a 1988 is usually a 1987 drivetrain on rv's so I think 1987 was the first year for fuel injection on the 460.  

I'd go with fuel filter, fuel pump or what HDR said.

 

[VanKitten]

Well.... the ignition control module has been changed more than 4 times since Sept. 1. At first we thought they were burning up. But, then we found out that once they were cooled back down...they stopped failing.

The last time, the module was relocated and placed with a heat sink due to the over heating issue Ford acknowaged back in 1992... that was the fix...which is still in use. So the mechanic changed this over....replaced the master computer and the coils at the same time. But..that problem had totally different symptoms. The engine would cut out..but..the total electrical systems would cut out with it. This time it was just the engine...just like back in August.

So..at my request, the fuel tank was dropped today, and the tank and lower pump inspected. The tank is in good shape...so is the pump.

This problems has not happened since the end of August...and did not repeat today. Hooking up a fuel pressure gauge sounds good..but the problem has not been repeatable. Yesterday was the first time this issue occurred since the end of August.

I am very sure that Simpsons is using the best parts available.

I am thinking maybe I will sk Simpsons to install a fuel pressure gauge...and I will stay here in GJ for a couple more weeks and drive it around..a lot...hope to catch it failing.

 

[highdesertranger]

they probably did this but have they blown all the fuel lines out with air and replaced all the rubber fuel lines? highdesertranger

 

[VanKitten]

The fuel lines were replaced back in March. I requested that all hoses, belts, gaskets, etc be replaced. Basically anything rubber.

Of course, I have been constantly unpleasantly surprised by yet another one that wasn't done..even though I keep requiring it from ever mechanic.

I will ask about it again tomorrow. Replace

 

[JustACarSoFar]

Kat!  you said you were going to get some sleep.  Did you get some sleep??  I'm worried about you!  

 

[highdesertranger]

it only takes one 1 inch piece of bad rubber hose to cause a problem. some times you will have rubber lines out of the tank going into steel lines and the mechanic see's the steel lines in the front so they assume that it's steel all the way. but low and behold in the middle of the run there is a small section of rubber hose in the middle that they missed it, maybe because it's hidden or a previous owner installed another fuel filter. I have seen this before. highdesertranger

 

[VanKitten]

So, I have a new perspective this morning.

I will be having some "words" with GoodSams. They will pay towing. I know there were other tow companies a lot closer...and 21' is little. The real reason was that GoodSams pays such a small amount no one will take the job.

To give you a bit of history...that line for propane was installed by a mechanic in Sanford, NC. Last year. I wasn't there. I dropped everything to rush to Colorado to be with my parents. When I came out in June because of Mom's stroke,,I found my Dad was in even worse shape! Really advanced dementia brought caused by hydrocephalus that have been untreated for years! I dropped everything to move to Colorado...but, my dream of converting that old Honeywell didn't die. I hired a series of mechanics to work over there..... I am certain that my absence gave these guys what they thought was a license to rip me off. I could write a book about them!

So, Simpsons (who has been truely great) drove Honey after replacing the line...the transmission is fine! Thank goodness for that! They dropped the tank, and inspection showed the tank was good. At first the pump seemed good too....but, with the last call last night, I was told the pump nearly fell apart putting it back in. The internal inspection revealed serious corrosion and faulty connections. Simpsons feels sure this was the source of the problem. This was a new part! But, clearly not. The manufacturer will cover these costs under warranty. Simpsons will seek redress on the towing too. Those people are just great! I already wrote a glowing reference for them....I highly recommend them.

So, I want to bring up another far more important and dangerous issue.

inspection under the engine revealed that the installation of the mounting on the front for my electric bicycle was about to fall off! A bolt was already missing...and the rest were loose! When (not if) that let go..the hitch, mounting, and bicycle would have fallen right in front of the RV...the accident would have done horrific damage and possibly even killed me.

I had that mount welded on yesterday. Something that should have been done to begin with! The guy that installed that didn't do the right job. Another case of a guy paid to do a job and just didn't care enough to do it right!

So..this morning I am thinking that what happened on Tuesday driving in Utah was actually Good Karma! The mechanical issues probably saved me from a massively serious accident!

 

[tav-2020]

Karma works in mysterious ways. I was so sad for you, to be reading yesterday of your latest mechanical failings. It seems like you have gone through so much to hit the road again and kudos to you for keeping your head up and persevering!!!
Sending out some good thoughts and karma on your behalf  :sleepy:

 

[UptownSport]

 pump nearly fell apart putting it back in. The internal inspection revealed serious corrosion and faulty connections.

Wonder how it became corroded in such a short amount of time?
If i understood it was recently replaced.
Sounds like a fuel pressure guage is a good idea- at least you know, if it were to die again- God forbid- that one item can be ruled out.

 

[VanKitten]

I have encountered parts suppliers passing off used or rebuilt as new. I always require the shop to give me a warranty on every new parts. But....maybe it wasn't replaced? Or, an old one laying around was used instead? I am not going to accuse anyone......

Simpsons is just as disgusted by this as I. I think they will not use that supplier.
But, meanwhile...they are honoring the warranty regardless of the manufacturer or supplier...that is actually far more than I could expect!!

Still...if it hadn't failed...I would have driven the RV to the point of destroying the new transmission because of the hose....or until a catastrophic accident because of the bicycle hitch failing on the front. This was good karma. Costly as this has been (still plan to recover the cost) it is far cheaper compared to what would have happened given some more time!!!

 

[highdesertranger]

hopefully this is the end of it. hopefully. highdesertranger

 

[user 423]

Simpsons is just as disgusted by this as I. I think they will not use that supplier.
But, meanwhile...they are honoring the warranty regardless of the manufacturer or supplier...that is actually far more than I could expect!!

Guess they never used that supplier before? Lots of cheap pumps out there and shops will use them to keep your end cost down (or to max their profit). A Motorcraft pump would probably cost a couple hundred $ more.

I sure hope you get everything sorted out so you can enjoy some travel.